7 ms·

$35k for model 3 is pretty cheap... I wouldn't expect them to drive a $150k car though.

by AtheistOfFail 10y ago

hueving 10y ago
Sorry, but $35k isn't "pretty cheap" for the majority of the US.
- ericd 10y ago
  What about for Tesla employees?
  - coryfklein 10y ago
    That's a pretty broad group ranging from janitor to assembly worker to engineer. I'd hazard a guess that the median Tesla employee could not afford a $35k vehicle.
dragontamer 10y ago
$35k is basically a Lexus or lower-end Cadillac. You're easily into luxury range for a daily-driver. My car was $20k brand new with several options tacked on. Most people I know have used cars... getting a new car of any kind is a big deal IMO for most Americans.
- crazy2be 10y ago
  The average new vehicle purchased in the United States is $33,560[0]. The Tesla Model 3 is $35,000, PLUS $7,500 in government tax credit[1]. This puts the effective cost at $27,500. The Honda Civic, widely considered a cheap car, is $20,415 MSRP[2]. Once you factor in gas and maintenance savings, around $1,200 per year[3], the Tesla is cheaper after just over 6 years. Since most cars are kept for 20 years, that is a good deal. Given that, I would say that calling it a "cheap" car is pretty accurate for most Americans. Obviously it is not in the range of used cars or the ultracheaps ($10-15K), but it's really amazingly cheap for an electric if they can make it happen. [1] Note this is likely to be halved or a quartered for new orders as Telsa reaches the 200,000 vehicle mark [2] https://www.truecar.com/prices-new/honda/civic-sedan-pricing/ https://www.truecar.com/prices-new/honda/civic-sedan-pricing... [3] Rough estimate based on $150/mo in gas -> $50/mo in electricity
  - dabeeeenster 10y ago
    Is the 35k before the 7.5k discount in the US? All Tesla prices in the UK are quoted with the UK govt discount applied...
    - _ph_ 10y ago
      Yes, Tesla stated that the 35k is before the discount. So effectively it is 27.5k after the discounts, and they might offer further rebates for Tesla employees.
  - Tepix 10y ago
    If you plan to keep an electric car for 20 years, I think it's not unreasonable to expect that you'll need to replace the expensive battery during that time period.
    - taneq 10y ago
      I thought everyone (well, most people) in the U.S. upgraded their car every 5-10 years?
      - nsp 10y ago
        The average age of a car on the road in the us is somewhere just over 10 years old. The averae person may be switching, but a bunch are switching into a new to them used car
    - Reason077 10y ago
      I agree. But how much cheaper will a replacement battery (or repack) be after 10-15 years? Will a 3rd-party battery replacement industry evolve, or will we always be stuck buying from the manufacturer?
    - linsomniac 10y ago
      The current Tesla packs seem to hold up pretty good. Users who are tracking the degradation are thinking a million miles is possible. Tesla has a test pack that has simulated half a million miles with <20% capacity loss. Warranty is 8 years unlimited miles. If you are driving a half million to million miles in 20 years, an electric will probably really make sense. You MIGHT need to replace the battery. With a ICE car, you will need $5K of oil changes, $3K of timing belts, and around $20K more in gasoline than electricity, probably a new engine and transmission or two... There's probably another $5K worth of service in there (plugs, fuel injectors, transmission, belts). So with a gas car you KNOW you're going to be in to it for basically as much as the purchase price of a Model 3 just in maintenance (again, if you are talking half a million miles). https://electrek.co/2016/06/06/tesla-model-s-battery-pack-data-degradation/ https://electrek.co/2016/06/06/tesla-model-s-battery-pack-da...
- mtgx 10y ago
  51% of Americans earn $30,000 or less a year [1] (yes, you read that right - and you wonder why populist candidates are so popular and why the anti-rich people sentiment is so strong...). I wish Musk hasn't said that he's not going to make a car that's cheaper than $35,000. I know he wants to add Level 5 Autopilot and whatnot by default on these cars, but he really needs to get to the $20,000 range at least. That's where the real mainstream is, and not just in the U.S. either. EVs will go mainstream when they cost $10,000-$20,000. It may take another decade to get there, but if Musk doesn't build such a car others will. It's just that I would've preferred a Tesla car to put pressure on the quality of the competitors as well. [1] http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-21/goodbye-middle-class-51-all-american-workers-make-less-30000-year http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-21/goodbye-middle-clas...
  - tehmaco 10y ago
    It looks like there'll be further models after the Three: "I'm super excited about being able to produce a car that most people can afford," Musk said. "And there will be future cars that are even more affordable down the road." "With something like the Model 3, it's designed such that roughly half the people can afford the car," he continued. "With fourth generation and smaller cars and what not, we'll ultimately be in the position where almost everyone will be able to afford the car." From here: http://www.computerworld.com/article/3062365/car-tech/elon-musk-says-teslas-next-gen-model-4-will-be-affordable-for-everyone.html http://www.computerworld.com/article/3062365/car-tech/elon-m...
  - adventured 10y ago
    Well then let's do some comparison shopping. 90% of the people living in the EU earn less than $30,000 per year. The EU's median household income is comparable to the US poverty line for median household income. The EU's GDP per capita is 60% lower than the US; they have 750 million people, with a total GDP 10% lower than the US. Or take Sweden for comparison, it's below all but 12 US states when it comes to median individual income. The median US income is about 45% higher than the UK median. The number of countries on earth with a higher median income than the US, you can list on one hand. These numbers are even more dramatically out of line, if you're talking about white households (which supposedly form the core of the populist anger). The median white household earns $75,000 and has a median net worth of $145,000 - an income number drastically higher than Sweden, Finland, UK, Germany, France, etc. So remind me again how income numbers in the US are driving the populist anger.
- new299 10y ago
  Average used car price in 2015 (US) was $16,800 [1]. So, I agree it will probably take a while for most people to be able to buy a (used) Tesla. [1] http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/02/18/record-used-car-prices-in-2014/23637775/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/02/18/record-u...

$35k for model 3 is pretty cheap... I wouldn't expect them to drive a $150k car though.

hueving 10y ago

Sorry, but $35k isn't "pretty cheap" for the majority of the US.

ericd 10y ago
What about for Tesla employees?
- coryfklein 10y ago
  That's a pretty broad group ranging from janitor to assembly worker to engineer. I'd hazard a guess that the median Tesla employee could not afford a $35k vehicle.

dragontamer 10y ago

$35k is basically a Lexus or lower-end Cadillac. You're easily into luxury range for a daily-driver. My car was $20k brand new with several options tacked on. Most people I know have used cars... getting a new car of any kind is a big deal IMO for most Americans.

crazy2be 10y ago
The average new vehicle purchased in the United States is $33,560[0]. The Tesla Model 3 is $35,000, PLUS $7,500 in government tax credit[1]. This puts the effective cost at $27,500. The Honda Civic, widely considered a cheap car, is $20,415 MSRP[2]. Once you factor in gas and maintenance savings, around $1,200 per year[3], the Tesla is cheaper after just over 6 years. Since most cars are kept for 20 years, that is a good deal. Given that, I would say that calling it a "cheap" car is pretty accurate for most Americans. Obviously it is not in the range of used cars or the ultracheaps ($10-15K), but it's really amazingly cheap for an electric if they can make it happen. [1] Note this is likely to be halved or a quartered for new orders as Telsa reaches the 200,000 vehicle mark [2] https://www.truecar.com/prices-new/honda/civic-sedan-pricing/ https://www.truecar.com/prices-new/honda/civic-sedan-pricing... [3] Rough estimate based on $150/mo in gas -> $50/mo in electricity
- dabeeeenster 10y ago
  Is the 35k before the 7.5k discount in the US? All Tesla prices in the UK are quoted with the UK govt discount applied...
  - _ph_ 10y ago
    Yes, Tesla stated that the 35k is before the discount. So effectively it is 27.5k after the discounts, and they might offer further rebates for Tesla employees.
- Tepix 10y ago
  If you plan to keep an electric car for 20 years, I think it's not unreasonable to expect that you'll need to replace the expensive battery during that time period.
  - taneq 10y ago
    I thought everyone (well, most people) in the U.S. upgraded their car every 5-10 years?
    - nsp 10y ago
      The average age of a car on the road in the us is somewhere just over 10 years old. The averae person may be switching, but a bunch are switching into a new to them used car
  - Reason077 10y ago
    I agree. But how much cheaper will a replacement battery (or repack) be after 10-15 years? Will a 3rd-party battery replacement industry evolve, or will we always be stuck buying from the manufacturer?
  - linsomniac 10y ago
    The current Tesla packs seem to hold up pretty good. Users who are tracking the degradation are thinking a million miles is possible. Tesla has a test pack that has simulated half a million miles with <20% capacity loss. Warranty is 8 years unlimited miles. If you are driving a half million to million miles in 20 years, an electric will probably really make sense. You MIGHT need to replace the battery. With a ICE car, you will need $5K of oil changes, $3K of timing belts, and around $20K more in gasoline than electricity, probably a new engine and transmission or two... There's probably another $5K worth of service in there (plugs, fuel injectors, transmission, belts). So with a gas car you KNOW you're going to be in to it for basically as much as the purchase price of a Model 3 just in maintenance (again, if you are talking half a million miles). https://electrek.co/2016/06/06/tesla-model-s-battery-pack-data-degradation/ https://electrek.co/2016/06/06/tesla-model-s-battery-pack-da...
mtgx 10y ago
51% of Americans earn $30,000 or less a year [1] (yes, you read that right - and you wonder why populist candidates are so popular and why the anti-rich people sentiment is so strong...). I wish Musk hasn't said that he's not going to make a car that's cheaper than $35,000. I know he wants to add Level 5 Autopilot and whatnot by default on these cars, but he really needs to get to the $20,000 range at least. That's where the real mainstream is, and not just in the U.S. either. EVs will go mainstream when they cost $10,000-$20,000. It may take another decade to get there, but if Musk doesn't build such a car others will. It's just that I would've preferred a Tesla car to put pressure on the quality of the competitors as well. [1] http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-21/goodbye-middle-class-51-all-american-workers-make-less-30000-year http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2015-10-21/goodbye-middle-clas...
- tehmaco 10y ago
  It looks like there'll be further models after the Three: "I'm super excited about being able to produce a car that most people can afford," Musk said. "And there will be future cars that are even more affordable down the road." "With something like the Model 3, it's designed such that roughly half the people can afford the car," he continued. "With fourth generation and smaller cars and what not, we'll ultimately be in the position where almost everyone will be able to afford the car." From here: http://www.computerworld.com/article/3062365/car-tech/elon-musk-says-teslas-next-gen-model-4-will-be-affordable-for-everyone.html http://www.computerworld.com/article/3062365/car-tech/elon-m...
- adventured 10y ago
  Well then let's do some comparison shopping. 90% of the people living in the EU earn less than $30,000 per year. The EU's median household income is comparable to the US poverty line for median household income. The EU's GDP per capita is 60% lower than the US; they have 750 million people, with a total GDP 10% lower than the US. Or take Sweden for comparison, it's below all but 12 US states when it comes to median individual income. The median US income is about 45% higher than the UK median. The number of countries on earth with a higher median income than the US, you can list on one hand. These numbers are even more dramatically out of line, if you're talking about white households (which supposedly form the core of the populist anger). The median white household earns $75,000 and has a median net worth of $145,000 - an income number drastically higher than Sweden, Finland, UK, Germany, France, etc. So remind me again how income numbers in the US are driving the populist anger.
new299 10y ago
Average used car price in 2015 (US) was $16,800 [1]. So, I agree it will probably take a while for most people to be able to buy a (used) Tesla. [1] http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/02/18/record-used-car-prices-in-2014/23637775/ http://www.usatoday.com/story/money/cars/2015/02/18/record-u...