14 ms·

HyperNormalisation (2016) [video]

301 points by cliffy 10y ago

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danschumann 10y ago
80% of women are raped when crossing the border illegally. Putting up a wall will hurt the human smuggling business model, taking power from criminals, and stopping thousands of sex crimes every year. In 2010 and 2011 hundreds of people were executed in the San Fernando massacres. Trump came out in support of building a wall and yes, he even mentioned these statistics in his 2015 Chicago Tribune interview. The news media says he is racist, but then why would he care about Mexican women being raped? His election is not absurd to anyone with a functioning brain. All of the business leaders that support him can tell you that. He's called homophobic, yet look how closely he works with Peter Thiel. Good luck with your school project, maybe watch about 20 hours of recent Milo Yiannopolis(sp?) shows and discover your own blindness. Yet another smear at Trump, listing him amongst bad folk and Putin too. You can't just word associate and chant to make things related, there must be a factual connection, and don't be overwhelmed by the consistent negative news reports, because those preponderances are all tiny snapshots lacking understanding and contexts, filtered by extreme confirmation bias, only accepting information when it fits preconceived notions, without preserving greater meaning. It's so funny how tiny brains often go into "deep thinking" projects, when deeply troubled mental status is more like it. Lol!
- jackvalentine 10y ago
  > he even mentioned these statistics in his 2015 Chicago Tribune interview Link to transcript? I can only find articles about him not an interview. A cursory glance across them doesn't support your statement.
- jayajay 10y ago
  > You can't just word associate and chant to make things related Oh but you can. It works on most humans... all humans. Everyone is subject to priming, bias, aggressive marketing and advertising.
- hiddencost 10y ago
  >> "You can't just word associate and chant to make things related, there must be a factual connection" Ironic. >> "Putting up a wall will hurt the human smuggling business model, taking power from criminals, and stopping thousands of sex crimes every year." >> " In 2010 and 2011 hundreds of people were executed in the San Fernando massacres." And the connection is? (hint: there isn't one; there's no causal relationship between los zetas and a wall, because a wall won't have a significant effect on their operations) [0] >> "All of the business leaders that support him can tell you that" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority Also, https://www.wsj.com/articles/tech-ceos-take-a-stand-against-donald-trumps-immigration-order-1486428105 https://www.wsj.com/articles/tech-ceos-take-a-stand-against-... Selective much? >> Milo's schtick is doxxing people at talks. >> The Trump homophobic thing is a false canard; he's never been seriously accused of homophobia >> "The news media says he is racist, but then why would he care about Mexican women being raped?" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism These two statements have no relationship with each other. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism#Aversive_racism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism#Aversive_racism [0] http://ced.berkeley.edu/events-media/news/donald-trumps-wall-only-serves-his-political-agenda http://ced.berkeley.edu/events-media/news/donald-trumps-wall...
  - danschumann 10y ago
    Bless you
- alimw 10y ago
  Suddenly all these people communicating among themselves in a strange language that sounds like nonsense to me. Must be what it feels like getting old.
  - empath75 10y ago
    It's a cult. They're like LaRouchies.
seltzered_ 10y ago
Adam Curtis has a history of making these films. Worth also checking out his 2002 film 'the century of the self'. Wikipedia on Adam Curtis: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Curtis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Curtis The century of the self on youtube: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ3RzGoQC4s https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ3RzGoQC4s Other films of his are also on archive.org
- jamesmiller5 10y ago
  "All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace" is another excellent documentary by Adam Curtis that I found particularly interesting for it's focus on the history of silicon valley. Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Watched_Over_by_Machines_of_Loving_Grace_(TV_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Watched_Over_by_Machines_o... Documentary: https://thoughtmaybe.com/all-watched-over-by-machines-of-loving-grace/ https://thoughtmaybe.com/all-watched-over-by-machines-of-lov...
- nosuchthing 10y ago
  More films available from OP's website: https://thoughtmaybe.com/by/adam-curtis/ https://thoughtmaybe.com/by/adam-curtis/
  - cyberpunk 10y ago
    I had no idea these were freely available. Thanks and then doublethanks to whoever is behind thoughtmaybe.com...
    - guitarbill 10y ago
      You can see the videos on thoughtmaybe are BBC watermarked. AFAIK, the BBC never released them outside the UK, although this is mainly due to copyright and the special provisions the BBC has inside the UK that enables them to produce such high quality material. So while they may be "freely" available, I doubt it's legal. I'm not sure how much the BBC cares about enforcement.
sarreph 10y ago
The closing arguments of this documentary, where the author brings the timeframe to the present, that talk about the reinforcement of content across groups in social networks, are incredibly poignant and relevant to the 'fake news' effect that currently sits at the forefront of the media's attention. It's scary how, as social networks' power gains more influence and accuracy, the lens through which we view content on the web will be narrowed and focussed. So much so, that coupled with the above 'fake news', is responsible for members of the public 'only seeing what they would want to see' - and not questioning the credibility of the source material. We, as technologists, must work hard to strive towards an objective web. I think that fake news is just the beginning of a veil of blurriness that will flow over internet content. It therefore strikes me as surprising that Facebook has started a 'flagging' system for fake content[0] — when it relies on the above positive feedback loops of users with shared interests. [0] - http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/38827101/how-facebook-is-starting-to-tackle-fake-news-in-your-news-feed http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/38827101/how-facebook-...
- cyberpunk 10y ago
  When everyone has such free access to content which shares and affirms their views, then even without publishers/facebook/whoever pushing targeted content this effect sort of happens regardless of if it's an algorithm pushing content or people simply choosing what to read/not read -- doesn't it? Objective/Non-Biased content is great and essential, but I fear we're in the minority as people who consume content from both 'sides' of any given issue. That makes me think if people naturally flow towards content which affirms their views/biases, how much blame can we put on sites for displaying 'relevant' content to such a users if they simply ignore content which goes against their views anyway? Can you blame facebook that a hardcore trump supporter doesn't click on an article about how beneficial obamacare is simply because an algorithm knew they wouldn't have clicked on it anyway. for not showing it? We're all going into little silos, I'm not really sure how to fix that.. Perhaps this is a natural evolution.. If it is, it seems we're being outnumbered by isolationists lately, though..
  - geodel 10y ago
    FWIW I had to unfollow more than few people on twitter in last few months. These folks were getting so bitter and filthy because liberal-progressive ideas were not resonating with popular politics across the world. Before that they would have something funny, interesting to say but lately they were all consumed with 'alternate facts', 'post truths' and so on. I have come to conclusion all this logical sophistication is fine cover when events were happening the way these people liked else the world is going to hell.
cyberpunk 10y ago
This is about the most depressing 2+ hours of docu I've watched in the last few years, but simply because this is all stuff we kinda knew already but in a disjointed way presented in one hit.. It contains many thoughts/things that I (and I suspect 'we') have had about where we are, and how we got here, but seeing them altogether in one condensed form was quite hard to take in. It's rather hard to hear our story in this form.. I'll give it another watch soon. For all the feelings of helplessness it inspires, I highly rate it and would suggest it to anyone. It's on iPlayer (for the brits here) for the next 200 days or something... I really hope we are not running out of people like Adam Curtis, I'm not really sure of anyone else producing content like this which is so accessible -- would love to hear any suggestions on more content like this besides chomsky and dan carlin's podcast which are my other two favourite opinion content i put beside this in my virtual bookshelf :} tl;dr -- watch it, but be forewarned you can't 'unwatch' it and, at least for me, it can be a bit much to deal with in one go.
- heurist 10y ago
  I found it one part hopelessness and one part empowerment. The dream of the internet isn't gone yet and we're still the early pioneers and settlers. We have a lot of work to do but the field of power is wide open to us, if we choose to take it. Fantastic documentary. Curtis is a genius.
gadtfly 10y ago
Great interview with Adam Curtis (HyperNormalisation's creator) on Chapo Trap House (a leftist comedy podcast which has been my primary source of sanity since November 8th): https://soundcloud.com/chapo-trap-house/episode-65-no-future-feat-adam-curtis-121216 https://soundcloud.com/chapo-trap-house/episode-65-no-future...
- taliesinb 10y ago
  I wonder how many gray wolves there are on HN.
  - knucklesandwich 10y ago
    I MAY not BE.... FRANK SINATRA.... BUT IM.... PART OF the pack. EDIT: lol apparently not many others.
    - taliesinb 10y ago
      Downvoters probably prefer Dan Nainan jokes.
  - dcposch 10y ago
    I MAY NOT BE DALE EARNHARDT...
  - tnone 10y ago
    This thing of turning fan bases into named tribes weirds me out. Yet another sign most people just want a club to belong to, and actual principles don't matter.
    - rowanseymour 10y ago
      Having principles and enjoying a sense of belonging aren't mutually exclusive.
    - jewbacca 10y ago
      For what it's worth, Chapo's use of "Gray Wolves" is dripping with irony, and was coined with conscious and deliberate awareness of exactly what you're accusing it of. The "real" Gray Wolves are the paramilitary youth wing of a Turkish ethnic-nationalist party.
extr 10y ago
If anyone wants to hear more from the creator, he was on an episode of Chapo Trap House and they interviewed him about this film: https://soundcloud.com/chapo-trap-house/episode-65-no-future-feat-adam-curtis-121216 https://soundcloud.com/chapo-trap-house/episode-65-no-future...
- taliesinb 10y ago
  He stumbles onto something quite interesting at the end of the interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW_R98EBO7s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW_R98EBO7s
ideamonk 10y ago
From history - KGB propagandist Yuri Bezmenov talks about normalisation in context of subversion - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gnpCqsXE8g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gnpCqsXE8g (1983, LA)
- jondwillis 10y ago
  There are so many parallels to what Yuri is talking about here, to plausible explanations behind the actions of and sentiment that elected Trump's administration, and some of the views of some of Trump's seemingly strange bedfellows such as Milo Yiannopoulos. If Trump was eloquent, this might be what he sounds like. Yuri, in 1983, says that it takes 15-20 years to subvert a society. An undertone to his whole argument implied that the West was already at least partially subverted, and in motion even then.
  - Sunset 10y ago
    It was, there were soviet operatives all over the place.
  - Sacho 10y ago
    Yuri frames subversion in a sinister way, feeding on anti-Soviet sentiment. However, what is progressivism if not subversion? Hasn't the dominant culture subtly shifted to where homosexuality and other "deviance" is tolerated, if not accepted? Is that shift not a subversion of the previous society and its norms?
    - throwawayfn1256 10y ago
      This is the inconvenient truth that leftists would prefer to deny, and one of the reasons why there's so much shrieking about Trump and Bannon and Brietbart. They've mastered using the left's tactics against them.
      - seppin 10y ago
        > They've mastered using the left's tactics against them. No one has a monopoly of truth, or lies. And neither owns the tactic either, stop being tribal
nickpeterson 10y ago
This might be too extreme, but can't we just let the chips fall? White's in the US have made their choice, and it was a poor one, but if the country suffers they'll be affected as well. Honestly maybe the world needs a new major power.
- justatdotin 10y ago
  problem with that is all the world-destroying wmds the empire is clinging to as it goes down
  - jessaustin 10y ago
    haha "too big to fail" might be true this time rather than just a fig leaf for brazen corruption like it usually is.
    - rbanffy 10y ago
      "Too well armed to fail" is a good analog.
- legodt 10y ago
  That would be nice except for when white people feel uncomfortable, everybody else dies. Just because white America voted Trump, white america won't directly feel the butt of the rifle. Also look at who else is in line to assume power as the leading global hegemon. None of the big states are particularly nice players. The US loves bombing civilians in other countries, but so does Russia. And you think we have a problem with silencing scientists who have dissenting opinions from old economic powers? Take a gander over at china. I'm not going to defend the actions of the united States, but it's not like anyone else has been playing nice either.
- wpietri 10y ago
  This is the opinion of a person who thinks the chips will fall only on other people.
jonathankoren 10y ago
Hypernormalization isn't really Adam Curtis's best work. It felt really rushed and not as well argued. On the other hand "Century of Self", "The Trap", and "All Watched Over By The Machines Of Loving Grace" are much better and should be required watching in the data and socio-economics communities. All three cover the the same idea about how simplification of complex societal behavior for modeling purposes has been confused for an actual explaination of behavior, and how this confusion has forced people to behave as if the simplification is reality. He specifically deals with at times the idea of a rational market with perfect information which runs counter to behavior economics studies. To make my own comical example, recall the story of the farmer that writes to the physics department and gets back a study that presumes a spherical cow. Instead of dismissing it, the farmer then goes about building stalls for spherical cows, because that's what the study says. Then cattle breeders start breeding cows to maximize their spherical properties.
bjshepard 10y ago
CIA STARTED FACEBOOK.
- sctb 10y ago
  This account has been posting mostly unsubstantive comments recently. Please stop and (re-)read the guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
littletimmy 10y ago
Watching this documentary was a really unsettling experience. The subversion of information has become so institutionalized, and common people are so accepting of it, that it is hard to even think about how we can escape it. My only logical conclusion is that things will continue to get worse as people get more and more distant from the truth. Perhaps a new dark ages.
- tr1ck5t3r 10y ago
  Maybe the traditional pillars of society feel their authority and power over people is being threatened? Lets face it, we've had for the best part of a few hundred years news & media organisations telling us what to think and do, but the internet lets us ignore them and distract ourselves with confirmational bias content as well as a little bit of cognitive dissonance when we fancying being provoked or outraged over something. Is this focus on Fake News an example or an outlier many of the control mechanisms that make society are breaking down?
eddie_catflap 10y ago
I enjoyed watching this but it felt a bit disjointed in comparison to his other productions.. almost as though he had ton of clips left over from his other documentaries that he didn't want to go to waste. The style remains eminently watchable though and the parts on social media were real head in the hands, 'what have we built?' moments for me. Great soundtrack again too.
singularity2001 10y ago
"No one has any vision for a better future" ( first minute of the film) thanks for making the wrong premise explicit and not have us waste our time.
greens231 10y ago
till last year i was thinking of getting a visa and trying my luck in the valley. now it seems (having learned more about america) that a significant part of the population thinks science is a liberal hoax, thinks the government and media is constantly lying, carries assault rifles and believes shit like pizzagate is not only plausible but true.
- loftyal 10y ago
  America is much more diverse than other countries - the valley, New York, etc are very different than the deep south.
  - RileyKyeden 10y ago
    Even regions that seem homogeneous from the outside are highly varied, like the deep south. Travel the interstates and highways in Georgia, and you'll mostly find the same kinds of things and people who, at worst, silently judge you. Get off the interstate/highway, and every little town has its own unique structure, culture, lore, and tolerances for outsiders.
- seppin 10y ago
  > that a significant part of the population not any part you'd ever come in contact with. it's like being worried about greek people living in Paris
milesrout 10y ago
It's almost like people might be a bit upset that the US has a fascist president or something.
- concernedmale 10y ago
  Nah,Obama is out, and Hillary lost.
- throwawayfn1256 10y ago
  Fascism doesn't mean what you think it means.
  - milesrout 10y ago
    Donald Trump exhibits every defining factor of being a fascist. He's authoritarian and very pro-military, he's nationalistic, he paints other religions and ethnicities as being evil, he paints other nationalities as being evil, he is protectionist, he's anti-media, he's anti-independent judiciary...
    - krapp 10y ago
      > authoritarian and very pro-military > nationalistic > paints other religions and ethnicities as being evil > paints other nationalities as being evil > anti-media > anti-independent judiciary None of those views fall very far outside of mainstream Republican belief. Trump just replaced the typical dog-whistle with a bullhorn, because he's politically incompetent, and was far more blatant in pandering openly to the fringe.
      - b1daly 10y ago
        The difference is he has a personality disorder, extreme narcissism, that verges into sociopathy. If such an individual gets hold of a position of power, they can ruthlessly "split" the people around them, and exert greater than proportional influence. Whether this meets a technical description of fascism or not, it puts him in a category with authoritarian despots, who rule with no regard for the welfare of anyone besides themselves.
pizza 10y ago
I really enjoyed this documentary when I saw it, and also ended up watching Bitter Lake and (half of) Century of the Self. The concepts were quite bold and the seemed nearly-self-evident. But then I asked myself, "so why am I just only now hearing about all this?" as a heuristic of the measure of the sufficient strength of supporting evidence. It dawned upon me that some of the techniques of desire-manufacturing/advertising that used psychological techniques, as mentioned in Century of the Self, were also used to compel the viewer about the curated historical web of causality. And I really think that Hanlon's razor supplants to much of the powers that be mentioned movie. I almost feel like this movie really displays the enouement of neoliberalism: nothing ever changes in this world any more (thus we're near "the end of history"), we're stuck in a massive deadlocked monetary system that has only "unrealistic" alternatives, "humanitarian interventions" in conflicts are necessary crusades and we cede that they may have the same power dynamics of imperial invasions but since they are done in the name of freedom and democracy they are to be absolved for their ambitions, and so on. I think that in that regard, the documentary falls short of exploring things that are subversive to hegemony. I was unsatisfied with the idea of watching a powerful documentary about hypernormalisation without searching for a critical explanation of the hypernormalisation of the documentary maker, too. Here's one such: That said, I did genuinely enjoy the movie and appreciate that it inspired me to reflect on modern history. To counterbalance Curtis' fairly conservative view of modernity, this talk by the late Mark Fisher is really good: the slow cancellation of the future [1] [0] http://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/adam-curtiss-essential-counterhistories http://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/adam-curtiss-e... [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCgkLICTskQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCgkLICTskQ
- liberte82 10y ago
  I agree. Curtis gets the facts right for the most part, and the movie is very interesting for historical learning, but the connections he draws and the cause-and-effect relationships he posits are very tenuous. It's one of those "take what you like and leave the rest" type of documentaries.
rtets 10y ago
"History may not repeat itself but it does rhyme..." Some guy, last century Are there really no parallels for popular opinion straying significantly from established facts and resulting in irrational behaviour before natural correction...? Are the South Sea Bubble and the Cold War not two such such examples of this?
- rtets 10y ago
  In considering our time more pivotal than any before, are we not guilty of the same sensationalism and irrational behaviour that this film observes?
Fr0styMatt88 10y ago
It's timely this should come up as I've been on a bit of an Adam Curtis binge lately, having recently watched half of HyperNormalisation and then the entirety of the 'The Power Of Nightmares' series. I'm looking forward to watching the rest of his work. One question I have for those that have seen his stuff - a recurring criticism I see of Curtis' work is that he states his opinions as if they are historical facts and heavily editorialises, leaving out important chunks of history because they don't support the view he's trying to push. Are these accurate criticisms? I don't want to feel like I'm learning about history when in actuality I'm being fed something that's inaccurate (thanks 'King of Kong' for ruining my trust in documentaries, but I digress!). For example after watching 'The Power Of Nightmares' I feel like I know much more about what was going on in the world of geopolitics in the 80s and 90s, but I'd hate to think that I've just picked up a series of falsehoods (doubt this is the case though).
- arethuza 10y ago
  "leaving out important chunks of history because they don't support the view he's trying to push." I think that's a fair criticism of Adam Curtis - but then again it is pretty much a fair criticism of pretty much every analysis of historical events - everyone has an agenda. Having said that, I absolutely love Bitter Lake more for sheer experience than anything else.
- MrScruff 10y ago
  I treat Adam Curtis (or any other documentary maker) as a source of ideas for further research, but with a heavy pinch of salt. His work is designed to ping the same sense of delight in being party to a secret that motivates conspiracy theorists.
  - astronautjones 10y ago
    His films often make me feel as if i'm listening to the Feeding of the 5000 [1] for the first time again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKAHU5-pS_A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKAHU5-pS_A
elcapitan 10y ago
Am I the only one who finds these Adam Curtis "documentaries" pretty manipulative? They seem to reassure and reinforce everybody in their view on the world. I recently watched Steve Bannons "documentary" "Generation Zero" which works pretty similarly. The difference seems to be that it's meant to reassure the other side of the political spectrum. When you disagree with such movies it's probably easier not to get sucked in too much into the narrative style, so you can separate manipulation and stated facts easier.
- deleted 10y ago
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- nmeofthestate 10y ago
  His style (hypnotic, trippy, brainwashing) just swamps any substance there might be for me. I switch off because I don't want to be hypnotised while watching what is ostensibly a documentary.
  - aswanson 10y ago
    Yeah, the way he jumps and interconnects history to fit his narrative reminds me of Glenn Beck's delusional meandering.
- sgt101 10y ago
  Errrm, this did not reassure or reinforce me or my views, rather it scared me witless and made me rethink things... Still different strokes for different folks and all that.
- anotheryou 10y ago
  I actually like the honest subjectivity. Makes it easy to oppose it, contrary to things posing as factual and objective.
- pixelmonkey 10y ago
  Do you find opinionated essays by persuasive writers to be "manipulative"? I view Adam Curtis documentaries as "intellectual essays in film/narrative form". There is another kind of documentary, e.g. the Ken Burns style, that seems to take no position, similar to a piece of journalism. This is simply a different style of documentary. You should check out Werner Herzog's "Lo and Behold", which may be at the center point of these two styles. In that film, Herzog is clearly stating a point of view, but the visual structure -- its scenes, setup, cinematography, and structure -- borrows from the journalistic style. If you put these three styles on a spectrum, perhaps then you will find the style itself isn't worth debating, just as George Orwell vs Jorge Luis Borges may have been writers of very different styles, but very (nonetheless) interesting content.
cJ0th 10y ago
From my experience as a programmer and a musician I find it odd that Curtis advocates the need for a big vision to bring about real change. In other words, he urges people to do top down planning. My impression is that working bottom-up is more suited for solving complex problems with many unknowns. Sure, many undertakings, like the Arab Spring, failed. And this is hardly surprising because a lot of success depends on happy accidents which you can't expect to happen. But bottom up "miracles" like modern computer technology or new musical genres do happen. Otoh, from the top of my head, I don't remember a single complex problem with many unknowns that was (successfully) solved with top-down planning. Ironically, LSD (which apparently inspired Curtis a lot) is another classic example for this. It failed miserably at what it was intended to do but turned out to be a happy accident for other purposes.
- pdkl95 10y ago
  The point, I believe, isn't a need for a "big vision" specifically, nor is it about "top down planning" (or any other specific solution). The message that Curtis is trying to express is that nobody knows how to run the modern world. Technology and the globalization it enabled made traditional theories of government obsolete, and some people are starting to notice just how out-of-control our ship of state has become. A revolution can be a nice first step, but it's a waste of time if you don't know the specifics of how everything should run the day after the revolution is finished. You like bottom-up designs. That's great; so how, specifically, do we implement that? Just like how programming needs actual code (not just a plan to use a bottom-up design), managing society also needs specifics. It's easy to point out the serious problems with the current government, but that's isn't going to fix anything unless someone also includes actual specifics about what the fixed system should look like.
  - cJ0th 10y ago
    I should have said that the idea of him suggesting topdown planing didn't come to me after watching the film but after hearing an interview he gave concerning the film. In the following clip, at around ~0:25, he briefly talks about having a big vision. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW_R98EBO7s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW_R98EBO7s > A revolution can be a nice first step, but it's a waste of time if you don't know the specifics of how everything should run the day after the revolution is finished. The way I see it, a revolution is often necessary but seldom met with success. I am not confident that what follows can be specified. I think it rather emerges from circumstances which may or may not turn out to be a boon. Whether or not there are specifics may be a question of the altitude from which you look at it, though. Having said that, I don't want to discount your comment in any way. Just my two cents. I am not a professional revolutionary ;)
arprocter 10y ago
Also downloadable from here: https://archive.org/details/HyperNormalisation https://archive.org/details/HyperNormalisation
fny 10y ago
The Wikipedia page provides a pretty decent summary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HyperNormalisation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HyperNormalisation
YeGoblynQueenne 10y ago
Speaking of fake news, the video repeats the claim from the time of the Iran-Iraq war that Iran sent 95,000 schoolchildren to walk over minefields and detonate mines with their bodies. Given that Iranians are human beings and therefore, evil Islamists or not, must have similar emotions towards their offspring as other human beings, I find that claim about as believable as the stories of German soldiers eating babies in WWI [1] which is to say, not at all. Unfortunately after hearing that I find it very hard to believe anything else in that video. _______________ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocity_propaganda#World_War_I https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocity_propaganda#World_War_...
YeGoblynQueenne 10y ago
Well, I got to the point where Blackrock builds a giant supercomputer called Aladdin that can predict the future and, well, now I understand exactly what kind of video I've been watching. So that's an hour and twenty minutes of my time on this lonely Earth wasted watching the modern equivalent of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, or the Illuminati trilogy but, like, for serious. I should have watched BSG reruns instead.

301 points by cliffy 10y ago

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danschumann 10y ago

80% of women are raped when crossing the border illegally. Putting up a wall will hurt the human smuggling business model, taking power from criminals, and stopping thousands of sex crimes every year. In 2010 and 2011 hundreds of people were executed in the San Fernando massacres. Trump came out in support of building a wall and yes, he even mentioned these statistics in his 2015 Chicago Tribune interview. The news media says he is racist, but then why would he care about Mexican women being raped? His election is not absurd to anyone with a functioning brain. All of the business leaders that support him can tell you that. He's called homophobic, yet look how closely he works with Peter Thiel. Good luck with your school project, maybe watch about 20 hours of recent Milo Yiannopolis(sp?) shows and discover your own blindness. Yet another smear at Trump, listing him amongst bad folk and Putin too. You can't just word associate and chant to make things related, there must be a factual connection, and don't be overwhelmed by the consistent negative news reports, because those preponderances are all tiny snapshots lacking understanding and contexts, filtered by extreme confirmation bias, only accepting information when it fits preconceived notions, without preserving greater meaning. It's so funny how tiny brains often go into "deep thinking" projects, when deeply troubled mental status is more like it. Lol!

jackvalentine 10y ago
> he even mentioned these statistics in his 2015 Chicago Tribune interview Link to transcript? I can only find articles about him not an interview. A cursory glance across them doesn't support your statement.
jayajay 10y ago
> You can't just word associate and chant to make things related Oh but you can. It works on most humans... all humans. Everyone is subject to priming, bias, aggressive marketing and advertising.
hiddencost 10y ago
>> "You can't just word associate and chant to make things related, there must be a factual connection" Ironic. >> "Putting up a wall will hurt the human smuggling business model, taking power from criminals, and stopping thousands of sex crimes every year." >> " In 2010 and 2011 hundreds of people were executed in the San Fernando massacres." And the connection is? (hint: there isn't one; there's no causal relationship between los zetas and a wall, because a wall won't have a significant effect on their operations) [0] >> "All of the business leaders that support him can tell you that" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Argument_from_authority Also, https://www.wsj.com/articles/tech-ceos-take-a-stand-against-donald-trumps-immigration-order-1486428105 https://www.wsj.com/articles/tech-ceos-take-a-stand-against-... Selective much? >> Milo's schtick is doxxing people at talks. >> The Trump homophobic thing is a false canard; he's never been seriously accused of homophobia >> "The news media says he is racist, but then why would he care about Mexican women being raped?" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whataboutism These two statements have no relationship with each other. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism#Aversive_racism https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism#Aversive_racism [0] http://ced.berkeley.edu/events-media/news/donald-trumps-wall-only-serves-his-political-agenda http://ced.berkeley.edu/events-media/news/donald-trumps-wall...
- danschumann 10y ago
  Bless you
alimw 10y ago
Suddenly all these people communicating among themselves in a strange language that sounds like nonsense to me. Must be what it feels like getting old.
- empath75 10y ago
  It's a cult. They're like LaRouchies.

seltzered_ 10y ago

Adam Curtis has a history of making these films. Worth also checking out his 2002 film 'the century of the self'. Wikipedia on Adam Curtis: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Curtis https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adam_Curtis The century of the self on youtube: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ3RzGoQC4s https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=eJ3RzGoQC4s Other films of his are also on archive.org

jamesmiller5 10y ago
"All Watched Over by Machines of Loving Grace" is another excellent documentary by Adam Curtis that I found particularly interesting for it's focus on the history of silicon valley. Wikipedia: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Watched_Over_by_Machines_of_Loving_Grace_(TV_series) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Watched_Over_by_Machines_o... Documentary: https://thoughtmaybe.com/all-watched-over-by-machines-of-loving-grace/ https://thoughtmaybe.com/all-watched-over-by-machines-of-lov...
nosuchthing 10y ago
More films available from OP's website: https://thoughtmaybe.com/by/adam-curtis/ https://thoughtmaybe.com/by/adam-curtis/
- cyberpunk 10y ago
  I had no idea these were freely available. Thanks and then doublethanks to whoever is behind thoughtmaybe.com...
  - guitarbill 10y ago
    You can see the videos on thoughtmaybe are BBC watermarked. AFAIK, the BBC never released them outside the UK, although this is mainly due to copyright and the special provisions the BBC has inside the UK that enables them to produce such high quality material. So while they may be "freely" available, I doubt it's legal. I'm not sure how much the BBC cares about enforcement.

sarreph 10y ago

The closing arguments of this documentary, where the author brings the timeframe to the present, that talk about the reinforcement of content across groups in social networks, are incredibly poignant and relevant to the 'fake news' effect that currently sits at the forefront of the media's attention. It's scary how, as social networks' power gains more influence and accuracy, the lens through which we view content on the web will be narrowed and focussed. So much so, that coupled with the above 'fake news', is responsible for members of the public 'only seeing what they would want to see' - and not questioning the credibility of the source material. We, as technologists, must work hard to strive towards an objective web. I think that fake news is just the beginning of a veil of blurriness that will flow over internet content. It therefore strikes me as surprising that Facebook has started a 'flagging' system for fake content[0] — when it relies on the above positive feedback loops of users with shared interests. [0] - http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/38827101/how-facebook-is-starting-to-tackle-fake-news-in-your-news-feed http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/article/38827101/how-facebook-...

cyberpunk 10y ago
When everyone has such free access to content which shares and affirms their views, then even without publishers/facebook/whoever pushing targeted content this effect sort of happens regardless of if it's an algorithm pushing content or people simply choosing what to read/not read -- doesn't it? Objective/Non-Biased content is great and essential, but I fear we're in the minority as people who consume content from both 'sides' of any given issue. That makes me think if people naturally flow towards content which affirms their views/biases, how much blame can we put on sites for displaying 'relevant' content to such a users if they simply ignore content which goes against their views anyway? Can you blame facebook that a hardcore trump supporter doesn't click on an article about how beneficial obamacare is simply because an algorithm knew they wouldn't have clicked on it anyway. for not showing it? We're all going into little silos, I'm not really sure how to fix that.. Perhaps this is a natural evolution.. If it is, it seems we're being outnumbered by isolationists lately, though..
- geodel 10y ago
  FWIW I had to unfollow more than few people on twitter in last few months. These folks were getting so bitter and filthy because liberal-progressive ideas were not resonating with popular politics across the world. Before that they would have something funny, interesting to say but lately they were all consumed with 'alternate facts', 'post truths' and so on. I have come to conclusion all this logical sophistication is fine cover when events were happening the way these people liked else the world is going to hell.

cyberpunk 10y ago

This is about the most depressing 2+ hours of docu I've watched in the last few years, but simply because this is all stuff we kinda knew already but in a disjointed way presented in one hit.. It contains many thoughts/things that I (and I suspect 'we') have had about where we are, and how we got here, but seeing them altogether in one condensed form was quite hard to take in. It's rather hard to hear our story in this form.. I'll give it another watch soon. For all the feelings of helplessness it inspires, I highly rate it and would suggest it to anyone. It's on iPlayer (for the brits here) for the next 200 days or something... I really hope we are not running out of people like Adam Curtis, I'm not really sure of anyone else producing content like this which is so accessible -- would love to hear any suggestions on more content like this besides chomsky and dan carlin's podcast which are my other two favourite opinion content i put beside this in my virtual bookshelf :} tl;dr -- watch it, but be forewarned you can't 'unwatch' it and, at least for me, it can be a bit much to deal with in one go.

heurist 10y ago
I found it one part hopelessness and one part empowerment. The dream of the internet isn't gone yet and we're still the early pioneers and settlers. We have a lot of work to do but the field of power is wide open to us, if we choose to take it. Fantastic documentary. Curtis is a genius.

gadtfly 10y ago

Great interview with Adam Curtis (HyperNormalisation's creator) on Chapo Trap House (a leftist comedy podcast which has been my primary source of sanity since November 8th): https://soundcloud.com/chapo-trap-house/episode-65-no-future-feat-adam-curtis-121216 https://soundcloud.com/chapo-trap-house/episode-65-no-future...

taliesinb 10y ago
I wonder how many gray wolves there are on HN.
- knucklesandwich 10y ago
  I MAY not BE.... FRANK SINATRA.... BUT IM.... PART OF the pack. EDIT: lol apparently not many others.
  - taliesinb 10y ago
    Downvoters probably prefer Dan Nainan jokes.
- dcposch 10y ago
  I MAY NOT BE DALE EARNHARDT...
- tnone 10y ago
  This thing of turning fan bases into named tribes weirds me out. Yet another sign most people just want a club to belong to, and actual principles don't matter.
  - rowanseymour 10y ago
    Having principles and enjoying a sense of belonging aren't mutually exclusive.
  - jewbacca 10y ago
    For what it's worth, Chapo's use of "Gray Wolves" is dripping with irony, and was coined with conscious and deliberate awareness of exactly what you're accusing it of. The "real" Gray Wolves are the paramilitary youth wing of a Turkish ethnic-nationalist party.

extr 10y ago

If anyone wants to hear more from the creator, he was on an episode of Chapo Trap House and they interviewed him about this film: https://soundcloud.com/chapo-trap-house/episode-65-no-future-feat-adam-curtis-121216 https://soundcloud.com/chapo-trap-house/episode-65-no-future...

taliesinb 10y ago
He stumbles onto something quite interesting at the end of the interview: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW_R98EBO7s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW_R98EBO7s

ideamonk 10y ago

From history - KGB propagandist Yuri Bezmenov talks about normalisation in context of subversion - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gnpCqsXE8g https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5gnpCqsXE8g (1983, LA)

jondwillis 10y ago
There are so many parallels to what Yuri is talking about here, to plausible explanations behind the actions of and sentiment that elected Trump's administration, and some of the views of some of Trump's seemingly strange bedfellows such as Milo Yiannopoulos. If Trump was eloquent, this might be what he sounds like. Yuri, in 1983, says that it takes 15-20 years to subvert a society. An undertone to his whole argument implied that the West was already at least partially subverted, and in motion even then.
- Sunset 10y ago
  It was, there were soviet operatives all over the place.
- Sacho 10y ago
  Yuri frames subversion in a sinister way, feeding on anti-Soviet sentiment. However, what is progressivism if not subversion? Hasn't the dominant culture subtly shifted to where homosexuality and other "deviance" is tolerated, if not accepted? Is that shift not a subversion of the previous society and its norms?
  - throwawayfn1256 10y ago
    This is the inconvenient truth that leftists would prefer to deny, and one of the reasons why there's so much shrieking about Trump and Bannon and Brietbart. They've mastered using the left's tactics against them.
    - seppin 10y ago
      > They've mastered using the left's tactics against them. No one has a monopoly of truth, or lies. And neither owns the tactic either, stop being tribal

nickpeterson 10y ago

This might be too extreme, but can't we just let the chips fall? White's in the US have made their choice, and it was a poor one, but if the country suffers they'll be affected as well. Honestly maybe the world needs a new major power.

justatdotin 10y ago
problem with that is all the world-destroying wmds the empire is clinging to as it goes down
- jessaustin 10y ago
  haha "too big to fail" might be true this time rather than just a fig leaf for brazen corruption like it usually is.
  - rbanffy 10y ago
    "Too well armed to fail" is a good analog.
legodt 10y ago
That would be nice except for when white people feel uncomfortable, everybody else dies. Just because white America voted Trump, white america won't directly feel the butt of the rifle. Also look at who else is in line to assume power as the leading global hegemon. None of the big states are particularly nice players. The US loves bombing civilians in other countries, but so does Russia. And you think we have a problem with silencing scientists who have dissenting opinions from old economic powers? Take a gander over at china. I'm not going to defend the actions of the united States, but it's not like anyone else has been playing nice either.
wpietri 10y ago
This is the opinion of a person who thinks the chips will fall only on other people.

jonathankoren 10y ago

Hypernormalization isn't really Adam Curtis's best work. It felt really rushed and not as well argued. On the other hand "Century of Self", "The Trap", and "All Watched Over By The Machines Of Loving Grace" are much better and should be required watching in the data and socio-economics communities. All three cover the the same idea about how simplification of complex societal behavior for modeling purposes has been confused for an actual explaination of behavior, and how this confusion has forced people to behave as if the simplification is reality. He specifically deals with at times the idea of a rational market with perfect information which runs counter to behavior economics studies. To make my own comical example, recall the story of the farmer that writes to the physics department and gets back a study that presumes a spherical cow. Instead of dismissing it, the farmer then goes about building stalls for spherical cows, because that's what the study says. Then cattle breeders start breeding cows to maximize their spherical properties.

bjshepard 10y ago

CIA STARTED FACEBOOK.

sctb 10y ago
This account has been posting mostly unsubstantive comments recently. Please stop and (re-)read the guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newswelcome.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

littletimmy 10y ago

Watching this documentary was a really unsettling experience. The subversion of information has become so institutionalized, and common people are so accepting of it, that it is hard to even think about how we can escape it. My only logical conclusion is that things will continue to get worse as people get more and more distant from the truth. Perhaps a new dark ages.

tr1ck5t3r 10y ago
Maybe the traditional pillars of society feel their authority and power over people is being threatened? Lets face it, we've had for the best part of a few hundred years news & media organisations telling us what to think and do, but the internet lets us ignore them and distract ourselves with confirmational bias content as well as a little bit of cognitive dissonance when we fancying being provoked or outraged over something. Is this focus on Fake News an example or an outlier many of the control mechanisms that make society are breaking down?

eddie_catflap 10y ago

I enjoyed watching this but it felt a bit disjointed in comparison to his other productions.. almost as though he had ton of clips left over from his other documentaries that he didn't want to go to waste. The style remains eminently watchable though and the parts on social media were real head in the hands, 'what have we built?' moments for me. Great soundtrack again too.

singularity2001 10y ago

"No one has any vision for a better future" ( first minute of the film) thanks for making the wrong premise explicit and not have us waste our time.

greens231 10y ago

till last year i was thinking of getting a visa and trying my luck in the valley. now it seems (having learned more about america) that a significant part of the population thinks science is a liberal hoax, thinks the government and media is constantly lying, carries assault rifles and believes shit like pizzagate is not only plausible but true.

loftyal 10y ago
America is much more diverse than other countries - the valley, New York, etc are very different than the deep south.
- RileyKyeden 10y ago
  Even regions that seem homogeneous from the outside are highly varied, like the deep south. Travel the interstates and highways in Georgia, and you'll mostly find the same kinds of things and people who, at worst, silently judge you. Get off the interstate/highway, and every little town has its own unique structure, culture, lore, and tolerances for outsiders.
seppin 10y ago
> that a significant part of the population not any part you'd ever come in contact with. it's like being worried about greek people living in Paris

milesrout 10y ago

It's almost like people might be a bit upset that the US has a fascist president or something.

concernedmale 10y ago
Nah,Obama is out, and Hillary lost.
throwawayfn1256 10y ago
Fascism doesn't mean what you think it means.
- milesrout 10y ago
  Donald Trump exhibits every defining factor of being a fascist. He's authoritarian and very pro-military, he's nationalistic, he paints other religions and ethnicities as being evil, he paints other nationalities as being evil, he is protectionist, he's anti-media, he's anti-independent judiciary...
  - krapp 10y ago
    > authoritarian and very pro-military > nationalistic > paints other religions and ethnicities as being evil > paints other nationalities as being evil > anti-media > anti-independent judiciary None of those views fall very far outside of mainstream Republican belief. Trump just replaced the typical dog-whistle with a bullhorn, because he's politically incompetent, and was far more blatant in pandering openly to the fringe.
    - b1daly 10y ago
      The difference is he has a personality disorder, extreme narcissism, that verges into sociopathy. If such an individual gets hold of a position of power, they can ruthlessly "split" the people around them, and exert greater than proportional influence. Whether this meets a technical description of fascism or not, it puts him in a category with authoritarian despots, who rule with no regard for the welfare of anyone besides themselves.

pizza 10y ago

I really enjoyed this documentary when I saw it, and also ended up watching Bitter Lake and (half of) Century of the Self. The concepts were quite bold and the seemed nearly-self-evident. But then I asked myself, "so why am I just only now hearing about all this?" as a heuristic of the measure of the sufficient strength of supporting evidence. It dawned upon me that some of the techniques of desire-manufacturing/advertising that used psychological techniques, as mentioned in Century of the Self, were also used to compel the viewer about the curated historical web of causality. And I really think that Hanlon's razor supplants to much of the powers that be mentioned movie. I almost feel like this movie really displays the enouement of neoliberalism: nothing ever changes in this world any more (thus we're near "the end of history"), we're stuck in a massive deadlocked monetary system that has only "unrealistic" alternatives, "humanitarian interventions" in conflicts are necessary crusades and we cede that they may have the same power dynamics of imperial invasions but since they are done in the name of freedom and democracy they are to be absolved for their ambitions, and so on. I think that in that regard, the documentary falls short of exploring things that are subversive to hegemony. I was unsatisfied with the idea of watching a powerful documentary about hypernormalisation without searching for a critical explanation of the hypernormalisation of the documentary maker, too. Here's one such: That said, I did genuinely enjoy the movie and appreciate that it inspired me to reflect on modern history. To counterbalance Curtis' fairly conservative view of modernity, this talk by the late Mark Fisher is really good: the slow cancellation of the future [1] [0] http://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/adam-curtiss-essential-counterhistories http://www.newyorker.com/culture/culture-desk/adam-curtiss-e... [1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCgkLICTskQ https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCgkLICTskQ

liberte82 10y ago
I agree. Curtis gets the facts right for the most part, and the movie is very interesting for historical learning, but the connections he draws and the cause-and-effect relationships he posits are very tenuous. It's one of those "take what you like and leave the rest" type of documentaries.

rtets 10y ago

"History may not repeat itself but it does rhyme..." Some guy, last century Are there really no parallels for popular opinion straying significantly from established facts and resulting in irrational behaviour before natural correction...? Are the South Sea Bubble and the Cold War not two such such examples of this?

rtets 10y ago
In considering our time more pivotal than any before, are we not guilty of the same sensationalism and irrational behaviour that this film observes?

Fr0styMatt88 10y ago

It's timely this should come up as I've been on a bit of an Adam Curtis binge lately, having recently watched half of HyperNormalisation and then the entirety of the 'The Power Of Nightmares' series. I'm looking forward to watching the rest of his work. One question I have for those that have seen his stuff - a recurring criticism I see of Curtis' work is that he states his opinions as if they are historical facts and heavily editorialises, leaving out important chunks of history because they don't support the view he's trying to push. Are these accurate criticisms? I don't want to feel like I'm learning about history when in actuality I'm being fed something that's inaccurate (thanks 'King of Kong' for ruining my trust in documentaries, but I digress!). For example after watching 'The Power Of Nightmares' I feel like I know much more about what was going on in the world of geopolitics in the 80s and 90s, but I'd hate to think that I've just picked up a series of falsehoods (doubt this is the case though).

arethuza 10y ago
"leaving out important chunks of history because they don't support the view he's trying to push." I think that's a fair criticism of Adam Curtis - but then again it is pretty much a fair criticism of pretty much every analysis of historical events - everyone has an agenda. Having said that, I absolutely love Bitter Lake more for sheer experience than anything else.
MrScruff 10y ago
I treat Adam Curtis (or any other documentary maker) as a source of ideas for further research, but with a heavy pinch of salt. His work is designed to ping the same sense of delight in being party to a secret that motivates conspiracy theorists.
- astronautjones 10y ago
  His films often make me feel as if i'm listening to the Feeding of the 5000 [1] for the first time again https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKAHU5-pS_A https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKAHU5-pS_A

elcapitan 10y ago

Am I the only one who finds these Adam Curtis "documentaries" pretty manipulative? They seem to reassure and reinforce everybody in their view on the world. I recently watched Steve Bannons "documentary" "Generation Zero" which works pretty similarly. The difference seems to be that it's meant to reassure the other side of the political spectrum. When you disagree with such movies it's probably easier not to get sucked in too much into the narrative style, so you can separate manipulation and stated facts easier.

deleted 10y ago
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nmeofthestate 10y ago
His style (hypnotic, trippy, brainwashing) just swamps any substance there might be for me. I switch off because I don't want to be hypnotised while watching what is ostensibly a documentary.
- aswanson 10y ago
  Yeah, the way he jumps and interconnects history to fit his narrative reminds me of Glenn Beck's delusional meandering.
sgt101 10y ago
Errrm, this did not reassure or reinforce me or my views, rather it scared me witless and made me rethink things... Still different strokes for different folks and all that.
anotheryou 10y ago
I actually like the honest subjectivity. Makes it easy to oppose it, contrary to things posing as factual and objective.
pixelmonkey 10y ago
Do you find opinionated essays by persuasive writers to be "manipulative"? I view Adam Curtis documentaries as "intellectual essays in film/narrative form". There is another kind of documentary, e.g. the Ken Burns style, that seems to take no position, similar to a piece of journalism. This is simply a different style of documentary. You should check out Werner Herzog's "Lo and Behold", which may be at the center point of these two styles. In that film, Herzog is clearly stating a point of view, but the visual structure -- its scenes, setup, cinematography, and structure -- borrows from the journalistic style. If you put these three styles on a spectrum, perhaps then you will find the style itself isn't worth debating, just as George Orwell vs Jorge Luis Borges may have been writers of very different styles, but very (nonetheless) interesting content.

cJ0th 10y ago

From my experience as a programmer and a musician I find it odd that Curtis advocates the need for a big vision to bring about real change. In other words, he urges people to do top down planning. My impression is that working bottom-up is more suited for solving complex problems with many unknowns. Sure, many undertakings, like the Arab Spring, failed. And this is hardly surprising because a lot of success depends on happy accidents which you can't expect to happen. But bottom up "miracles" like modern computer technology or new musical genres do happen. Otoh, from the top of my head, I don't remember a single complex problem with many unknowns that was (successfully) solved with top-down planning. Ironically, LSD (which apparently inspired Curtis a lot) is another classic example for this. It failed miserably at what it was intended to do but turned out to be a happy accident for other purposes.

pdkl95 10y ago
The point, I believe, isn't a need for a "big vision" specifically, nor is it about "top down planning" (or any other specific solution). The message that Curtis is trying to express is that nobody knows how to run the modern world. Technology and the globalization it enabled made traditional theories of government obsolete, and some people are starting to notice just how out-of-control our ship of state has become. A revolution can be a nice first step, but it's a waste of time if you don't know the specifics of how everything should run the day after the revolution is finished. You like bottom-up designs. That's great; so how, specifically, do we implement that? Just like how programming needs actual code (not just a plan to use a bottom-up design), managing society also needs specifics. It's easy to point out the serious problems with the current government, but that's isn't going to fix anything unless someone also includes actual specifics about what the fixed system should look like.
- cJ0th 10y ago
  I should have said that the idea of him suggesting topdown planing didn't come to me after watching the film but after hearing an interview he gave concerning the film. In the following clip, at around ~0:25, he briefly talks about having a big vision. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW_R98EBO7s https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VW_R98EBO7s > A revolution can be a nice first step, but it's a waste of time if you don't know the specifics of how everything should run the day after the revolution is finished. The way I see it, a revolution is often necessary but seldom met with success. I am not confident that what follows can be specified. I think it rather emerges from circumstances which may or may not turn out to be a boon. Whether or not there are specifics may be a question of the altitude from which you look at it, though. Having said that, I don't want to discount your comment in any way. Just my two cents. I am not a professional revolutionary ;)

arprocter 10y ago

Also downloadable from here: https://archive.org/details/HyperNormalisation https://archive.org/details/HyperNormalisation

fny 10y ago

The Wikipedia page provides a pretty decent summary: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HyperNormalisation https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HyperNormalisation

YeGoblynQueenne 10y ago

Speaking of fake news, the video repeats the claim from the time of the Iran-Iraq war that Iran sent 95,000 schoolchildren to walk over minefields and detonate mines with their bodies. Given that Iranians are human beings and therefore, evil Islamists or not, must have similar emotions towards their offspring as other human beings, I find that claim about as believable as the stories of German soldiers eating babies in WWI [1] which is to say, not at all. Unfortunately after hearing that I find it very hard to believe anything else in that video. _______________ [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocity_propaganda#World_War_I https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atrocity_propaganda#World_War_...

YeGoblynQueenne 10y ago

Well, I got to the point where Blackrock builds a giant supercomputer called Aladdin that can predict the future and, well, now I understand exactly what kind of video I've been watching. So that's an hour and twenty minutes of my time on this lonely Earth wasted watching the modern equivalent of the Protocols of the Elders of Zion, or the Illuminati trilogy but, like, for serious. I should have watched BSG reruns instead.