4 ms·

You've provided almost no information, but at 340 lbs it's possible your TDEE was more than 4000 calories/day, meaning it's possible you went on a reduced calor

by delecti 10y ago

You've provided almost no information, but at 340 lbs it's possible your TDEE was more than 4000 calories/day, meaning it's possible you went on a reduced calorie diet with your bacon strategy. Without more information, your anecdote is useless, and even with more information it's still just an anecdote. Also, Paleo, like any similar structured diet, is just a trick to get you to ingest fewer calories. And I'm going to piggy back on the [citation needed] about calories in/out being scientifically disproven. [1] https://mytdee.com/#gender=male&yr=30&cm=182.9&kg=154.2&bfp=&goal=maintain&formula=standard&units=imperial&exercise=moderately https://mytdee.com/#gender=male&yr=30&cm=182.9&kg=154.2&bfp=...

CuriouslyC 10y ago
While not the OP, there is research demonstrating that the blood glucose and insulin response to various carbohydrate sources is highly specific to the individual. In the study I'm thinking of, some people were given cookies, others were given bananas (among other things). The responses weren't consistent at all. As for calories in/out being a simplification, while it is mostly true, the tricky bit is that calories out actually varies wildly with the foods you eat. Your body's hormonal milieu changes very significantly with what you eat, and that has a massive impact on your biochemistry. Additionally, the microbes in your gut have certain food preferences, and they can metabolize a significant fraction of the calories you eat. Thus, hormonal shifts and rate of microbial metabolism can spike your "calories out" far above what would be predicted by BMR and activity level (and the reverse is unfortunately true as well).
- craigkilgo 10y ago
  I think this is what people are missing. The laws of thermodynamics are not being violated with these various diets, and like you mentioned, for certain individuals their metabolism is being increased.
- MarkPNeyer 10y ago
  This suggests something tech could actually help with. Since each person has a different gut microfauna, if we had a system to measure my gut and compute what foods would be good for me, we could design custom diets for each person.
- scriptkiddy 10y ago
  I agree with you to an extent. However, none of this changes the fact that consistent exercise increases the rate of metabolism significantly and generally leads to better mental and physical health. It also doesn't change the fact that eating at a caloric deficit will always lead to weight loss. A caloric deficit alone is not enough for one to reduce to a healthy weight as they may also be losing large amounts of muscle mass. Conclusion: Consistent exercise and a well-balanced diet are still the best ways to become healthy and maintain health.
  - crazygringo 10y ago
    But it's not that simple -- "eating at a caloric deficit" isn't a constant thing. You can eat less, but your metabolism might drop even further, so eating less calories can lead to weight gain, or a loss of muscle mass that is more than made up for by a gain in fat. And plenty of research shows that exercise is, for most people, counterproductive for weight loss because they wind up eating afterwards than the calories they burn. Yes, exercise leads to general better health, but that's a very different goal from losing weight.
    - nradov 10y ago
      Oh no, not the "starvation effect" nonsense again. That's been thoroughly debunked.
      - DanBC 10y ago
        No, it hasn't, which is why yoyo dieting is so harmful and why refeeding people with anorexia is done so carefully.
        nradov 10y ago
        Anorexia treatment has zero relevance to the vast majority of overweight people who need to eat much less to lose weight.
    - scriptkiddy 10y ago
maroonblazer 10y ago
Robert Lustig[0] and Gary Taubes[1] are excellent places to start to understand that obesity is not simply about 'calories in/calories out'. Lustig has a now-infamous talk that surveys the research.[2] [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Lustig https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Lustig [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Taubes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Taubes [2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM
- Jemmeh 10y ago
  Relevant short video from the Documentary "FatHead" that talks a little bit about what Gary Taubes is talking about in his book. The effects of carb/sugar and the insulin response that causes fat storage. https://youtu.be/mNYlIcXynwE https://youtu.be/mNYlIcXynwE It's free on Amazon Prime Video if anyone wants to watch it. I'm still only halfway through it though, so if he suddenly says we should just eat helium at the end I'm sorry. :P
  - Jemmeh 10y ago
    Well...as of today it's no longer part of prime video. :/ But you can sign up for a 7 day trial of the extra subscription for documentaries that allows you to watch it and then cancel.
jsymolon 10y ago
> Also, Paleo, like any similar structured diet, is just a trick to get you to ingest fewer calories. I wouldn't classify as a trick per se but a awareness that manufacturers tend to pack processed foods with a lot more addictive items to sell more. For example, a lot of food has added sugar under many different names. This was to add "taste" when everything went to "non" or "low" fat. I see Paleo and its ilk to be a pull back from the processed food direction.
- delecti 10y ago
  There's nothing special about Paleo except that for some people it's easier to restrict total calories by cutting out the things that Paleo cuts out. By that logic, I consider Paleo to be a trick. Not in the dishonest "deceive" sense, but rather in the card trick sense, or the "one neat trick" life-hack sense.
VT_Drew 10y ago
Here is your information: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0ffswUVoxA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0ffswUVoxA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxM_CLsvieE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxM_CLsvieE
BurningFrog 10y ago
There is a lot more to diets than calories. Like nutrition.

by delecti 10y ago

CuriouslyC 10y ago

While not the OP, there is research demonstrating that the blood glucose and insulin response to various carbohydrate sources is highly specific to the individual. In the study I'm thinking of, some people were given cookies, others were given bananas (among other things). The responses weren't consistent at all. As for calories in/out being a simplification, while it is mostly true, the tricky bit is that calories out actually varies wildly with the foods you eat. Your body's hormonal milieu changes very significantly with what you eat, and that has a massive impact on your biochemistry. Additionally, the microbes in your gut have certain food preferences, and they can metabolize a significant fraction of the calories you eat. Thus, hormonal shifts and rate of microbial metabolism can spike your "calories out" far above what would be predicted by BMR and activity level (and the reverse is unfortunately true as well).

craigkilgo 10y ago
I think this is what people are missing. The laws of thermodynamics are not being violated with these various diets, and like you mentioned, for certain individuals their metabolism is being increased.
MarkPNeyer 10y ago
This suggests something tech could actually help with. Since each person has a different gut microfauna, if we had a system to measure my gut and compute what foods would be good for me, we could design custom diets for each person.
scriptkiddy 10y ago
I agree with you to an extent. However, none of this changes the fact that consistent exercise increases the rate of metabolism significantly and generally leads to better mental and physical health. It also doesn't change the fact that eating at a caloric deficit will always lead to weight loss. A caloric deficit alone is not enough for one to reduce to a healthy weight as they may also be losing large amounts of muscle mass. Conclusion: Consistent exercise and a well-balanced diet are still the best ways to become healthy and maintain health.
- crazygringo 10y ago
  But it's not that simple -- "eating at a caloric deficit" isn't a constant thing. You can eat less, but your metabolism might drop even further, so eating less calories can lead to weight gain, or a loss of muscle mass that is more than made up for by a gain in fat. And plenty of research shows that exercise is, for most people, counterproductive for weight loss because they wind up eating afterwards than the calories they burn. Yes, exercise leads to general better health, but that's a very different goal from losing weight.
  - nradov 10y ago
    Oh no, not the "starvation effect" nonsense again. That's been thoroughly debunked.
    - DanBC 10y ago
      No, it hasn't, which is why yoyo dieting is so harmful and why refeeding people with anorexia is done so carefully.
      - nradov 10y ago
        Anorexia treatment has zero relevance to the vast majority of overweight people who need to eat much less to lose weight.
  - scriptkiddy 10y ago

maroonblazer 10y ago

Robert Lustig[0] and Gary Taubes[1] are excellent places to start to understand that obesity is not simply about 'calories in/calories out'. Lustig has a now-infamous talk that surveys the research.[2] [0]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Lustig https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Lustig [1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Taubes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gary_Taubes [2]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dBnniua6-oM

Jemmeh 10y ago
Relevant short video from the Documentary "FatHead" that talks a little bit about what Gary Taubes is talking about in his book. The effects of carb/sugar and the insulin response that causes fat storage. https://youtu.be/mNYlIcXynwE https://youtu.be/mNYlIcXynwE It's free on Amazon Prime Video if anyone wants to watch it. I'm still only halfway through it though, so if he suddenly says we should just eat helium at the end I'm sorry. :P
- Jemmeh 10y ago
  Well...as of today it's no longer part of prime video. :/ But you can sign up for a 7 day trial of the extra subscription for documentaries that allows you to watch it and then cancel.

jsymolon 10y ago

> Also, Paleo, like any similar structured diet, is just a trick to get you to ingest fewer calories. I wouldn't classify as a trick per se but a awareness that manufacturers tend to pack processed foods with a lot more addictive items to sell more. For example, a lot of food has added sugar under many different names. This was to add "taste" when everything went to "non" or "low" fat. I see Paleo and its ilk to be a pull back from the processed food direction.

delecti 10y ago
There's nothing special about Paleo except that for some people it's easier to restrict total calories by cutting out the things that Paleo cuts out. By that logic, I consider Paleo to be a trick. Not in the dishonest "deceive" sense, but rather in the card trick sense, or the "one neat trick" life-hack sense.

VT_Drew 10y ago

Here is your information: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0ffswUVoxA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q0ffswUVoxA https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxM_CLsvieE https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxM_CLsvieE

BurningFrog 10y ago

There is a lot more to diets than calories. Like nutrition.