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It's not simply an e-commerce giant, it's a logistics giant. Hundreds of warehouses, hundreds of delivery stations, thousands of shipping containers, dozens of

by mabbo 10y ago

It's not simply an e-commerce giant, it's a logistics giant. Hundreds of warehouses, hundreds of delivery stations, thousands of shipping containers, dozens of planes (plus an airport soon), a container ship is rumoured. That 341k number probably doesn't even count the independent contractors (both through Flex and through Amazon Logistics) handling deliveries. The tens of thousands of software developers are there to (among other things) optimize the efficiency of those workers, make them achieve more with less effort via technology.

ljk 10y ago
> make them achieve more with less effort via technology and one day replace everything with robots
- eva1984 10y ago
  And Trump will stop this, at some point, single day delivery will be banned.
  - sethev 10y ago
    It may sound conspiratorial but Trump did say this about Amazon: "Believe me, if I become president, oh do they have problems, they are going to have such problems" [1] We'll see. [1]:https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/nov/18/amazon-jeff-bezos-donald-trump-challenge https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/nov/18/amazon-je...
    - azernik 10y ago
      As far as I understand, that's more a grudge about the Post's critical coverage of Trump than a populist objection to the business model.
      - sethev 10y ago
        Sure - that's a plausible guess. It also didn't seem to bother his base.
      - sdfjkjasdfsd67 10y ago
        Bannon is full of rage towards SV and the tech scene. Largely based on his belief that they're undermining white America: http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/2/2/14472404/steve-bannon-legal-immigration-problem http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/2/2/14472404/ste... Trump himself has told foreign born, but now legal citizens, to "get out of his country." He's imploding our relations with long-time allies. It's not hard for me to see Trump not caring that 100k+ jobs are being created if it means they're not going to get him any prestige for making them. He'll undermine Amazon or Google if there's a shot at doing something else over here to create jobs, so long as it makes him look good.
        gumby 10y ago
        That's pretty scary to read as a GC holding "job creator". I'm also amazed they are saying American workers just can't compete with foreigners.
        gowld 10y ago
        Amazon, however, is run by a white dude, so it's going to be lower on Bannon's list. > Trump himself has told foreign born, but now legal citizens, to "get out of his country." In the video that circulated yesterday, I think that was a security guard, not Trump himself.
      - bduerst 10y ago
        And at what point does that even matter? I'm being serious. I feel like Trump has trained people to not believe anything he says, until it happens, and then people think he's doing exactly what he said he would do. The president said Amazon is going to have problems.
- misja111 10y ago
  I think you are raising an interesting issue. Does Amazon, while leading the automation of the retail industry, reduce employment? Or is it a net jobs creator? Considering the growth of its number of employees, it seems to me that currently Amazon seems to increasing employment and not reducing it. Or am I wrong and is for every new Amazon employee at least one employee fired elsewhere?
petra 10y ago
My contrarian opinion: Walmart is going to create some hard times for Amazon. Walmart ackuired jet.com just 4 months ago. Jet.com, a startup, has managed to create a logistics network being able to do 1-day delivery to 50% of the population(or at least they claimed so), reached $1B in sales rapidly. Walmart has recently started to offer free 2-day delivery($35 minimum), which means that now, even for Prime memebers. shopping comparison is a reasonable option. Furthermore, Walmart has curbside pickup for groceries, a very convinient service to get your groceries on the way from work, is seeing a lot of sucsess according to Walmart, with availibility in 500 stores, and planning to be in 600 more soon. And Walmart definetly has got a huge logistics chain, maybe less in areas where Amazon is strong at, but they're probably better at the china/usa logistics part, that's why Amazon is doing some of those moves. And Walmart does have enough capital to compete. And once this impacts Amazon, will Amazon be able to keep it's very high stock price ? and how will this affect talent and growth ? In short: finally , we're in for some very interesting times.
- Zelphyr 10y ago
  I'll add some anecdotal evidence as to why I don't think Walmart isn't capable of giving Amazon any hard times. When I got my first iPhone I was recommended a Zagg screen protector. I found that Walmart online had the best deal so I ordered it for in-store pickup. I was notified the day it arrived and headed back to the Layaway area. Nobody was there, but there was a little kiosk where I could enter my info and someone would fetch my item for me. Seemed like a very efficient setup. Walk in, get my thing, and leave. After putting my info into the kiosk and being told my item was on its way, I waited. And waited. And waited. About 15 minutes in, after entering the info into the kiosk again and not getting a response, I called the store and asked for a manager. It took me a minute to get them to understand that I was calling from inside their store to get my item. But finally, they got it and assured me that someone would be bringing out my item shortly. Another 15 minutes of waiting and I HAD TO CALL THEM AGAIN! And explain, again, that, "Yes, I'm standing inside your store, waiting for the thing I purchased. We talked about this already." All told, I was probably there for 45 minutes before I got my item. That was the last time I bought something from Walmart. Now, I'll concede that this was almost 10 years ago and maybe they've changed. But Walmart has never been known for the best customer service, and Amazon is always fantastic when I have to deal with them. So I'm placing my bet on Amazon in this particular race.
nunez 10y ago
I actually predict Amazon beating Walmart in the long term; brick and mortar stores are losing relevance fast especially with drone delivery becoming a reality "soon"
- greedo 10y ago
  I think you're underestimating the value of Walmart. Sure for things you can wait to get in 2 day shipping, it's a no brainer compared to driving to Barnes & Noble, or BestBuy. But a large part of the US still shops at brick and mortar stores because they want/need things "right now." Walmart is still a juggernaut, especially in smaller cities, rural areas. And drone delivery... I don't see that being successful for Amazon for another 10 years. Too many technical, legal, and cultural hurdles for that to happen faster, if ever.
  - chc 10y ago
    How immediate is "right now"? If you have to drive 45 minutes to the store and back, is that "right now"? If Amazon can deliver it two hours from when you place your order (which they already do in some cases), is that "right now"?
    - bduerst 10y ago
      I also see a trip to the store as a chore, but I see Wal-Mart as being uniquely positioned to do 1-hour delivery from their own stores - which are essentially localized warehouses across most of the U.S.
    - HeyLaughingBoy 10y ago
      If you have a 90-minute round trip to the store, odds are Amazon won't be delivering anything in 2 hours.
    - lozaning 10y ago
      If you've got to drive 45 minutes just to get to a Walmart, Im not sure you live in a population center large enough for Amazon to offer two hour delivery.
ue_ 10y ago
>optimize the efficiency of those workers, make them achieve more with less effort via technology. And to allow Amazon to make bigger profits for itself by laying off or continuing to exploit workers rather than valuing automation as a method so humans can work less.
- mabbo 10y ago
  I actually was one of those developers, for a number of years. The reality is that we're still very far away from a robot that can visually identify random objects, identify them, and then pick them up in a safe manner. Humans are awesome at exactly that. The automation is coming, yes, and many very tedious tasks are being automated but Amazon has never laid off warehouse employees because a robot replaced them- they just move those humans to jobs robots can't do yet, and grow faster.
  - ue_ 10y ago
    The fact is that automation replaced jobs (good thing!) yet rather than the 'savings' being returned to the labourer, so that she no longer needs to work, it is passed to Amazon. That person who was replaced would no longer need to work, at least not that job, in an ideal world. Rather than the automation improving the lives of the workers, it causes suffering by means of making people either unemployed (unemployment itself is not bad, it is only bad within Capitalism because the worker is unable to sustain herself without the State) or to move them to yet another job. In some respects I believe the re-purposing of humans for other jobs may be worse.
    - hueving 10y ago
      >it is passed to Amazon. Incorrect. If that is true, it's only temporary. It is passed to the consumer via lower prices due to competition pressure.
      - ue_ 10y ago
        What about the labourer? He is still being exploited when if it weren't for the profit motive he would not be required to sell his labour. That difference in profit, once the cost of the machinery and its maintenance is substracted, could be passed to the displaced worker. Why should it go to the 'consumer'?
Bombthecat 10y ago
What about mechanical Turks? Could you count them to?
fuzzfactor 10y ago
Do the math. There is no way that 231K could have hired 110K that fast without getting lots who were not above average. There is probably a calculated advantage to becoming an average-to-below-average giant giant as a follow-up to above average e-commerce, logistics, or web gigantism.

by mabbo 10y ago

ljk 10y ago

> make them achieve more with less effort via technology and one day replace everything with robots

eva1984 10y ago
And Trump will stop this, at some point, single day delivery will be banned.
- sethev 10y ago
  It may sound conspiratorial but Trump did say this about Amazon: "Believe me, if I become president, oh do they have problems, they are going to have such problems" [1] We'll see. [1]:https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/nov/18/amazon-jeff-bezos-donald-trump-challenge https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2016/nov/18/amazon-je...
  - azernik 10y ago
    As far as I understand, that's more a grudge about the Post's critical coverage of Trump than a populist objection to the business model.
    - sethev 10y ago
      Sure - that's a plausible guess. It also didn't seem to bother his base.
    - sdfjkjasdfsd67 10y ago
      Bannon is full of rage towards SV and the tech scene. Largely based on his belief that they're undermining white America: http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/2/2/14472404/steve-bannon-legal-immigration-problem http://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/2/2/14472404/ste... Trump himself has told foreign born, but now legal citizens, to "get out of his country." He's imploding our relations with long-time allies. It's not hard for me to see Trump not caring that 100k+ jobs are being created if it means they're not going to get him any prestige for making them. He'll undermine Amazon or Google if there's a shot at doing something else over here to create jobs, so long as it makes him look good.
      - gumby 10y ago
        That's pretty scary to read as a GC holding "job creator". I'm also amazed they are saying American workers just can't compete with foreigners.
      - gowld 10y ago
        Amazon, however, is run by a white dude, so it's going to be lower on Bannon's list. > Trump himself has told foreign born, but now legal citizens, to "get out of his country." In the video that circulated yesterday, I think that was a security guard, not Trump himself.
    - bduerst 10y ago
      And at what point does that even matter? I'm being serious. I feel like Trump has trained people to not believe anything he says, until it happens, and then people think he's doing exactly what he said he would do. The president said Amazon is going to have problems.
misja111 10y ago
I think you are raising an interesting issue. Does Amazon, while leading the automation of the retail industry, reduce employment? Or is it a net jobs creator? Considering the growth of its number of employees, it seems to me that currently Amazon seems to increasing employment and not reducing it. Or am I wrong and is for every new Amazon employee at least one employee fired elsewhere?

petra 10y ago

My contrarian opinion: Walmart is going to create some hard times for Amazon. Walmart ackuired jet.com just 4 months ago. Jet.com, a startup, has managed to create a logistics network being able to do 1-day delivery to 50% of the population(or at least they claimed so), reached $1B in sales rapidly. Walmart has recently started to offer free 2-day delivery($35 minimum), which means that now, even for Prime memebers. shopping comparison is a reasonable option. Furthermore, Walmart has curbside pickup for groceries, a very convinient service to get your groceries on the way from work, is seeing a lot of sucsess according to Walmart, with availibility in 500 stores, and planning to be in 600 more soon. And Walmart definetly has got a huge logistics chain, maybe less in areas where Amazon is strong at, but they're probably better at the china/usa logistics part, that's why Amazon is doing some of those moves. And Walmart does have enough capital to compete. And once this impacts Amazon, will Amazon be able to keep it's very high stock price ? and how will this affect talent and growth ? In short: finally , we're in for some very interesting times.

Zelphyr 10y ago
I'll add some anecdotal evidence as to why I don't think Walmart isn't capable of giving Amazon any hard times. When I got my first iPhone I was recommended a Zagg screen protector. I found that Walmart online had the best deal so I ordered it for in-store pickup. I was notified the day it arrived and headed back to the Layaway area. Nobody was there, but there was a little kiosk where I could enter my info and someone would fetch my item for me. Seemed like a very efficient setup. Walk in, get my thing, and leave. After putting my info into the kiosk and being told my item was on its way, I waited. And waited. And waited. About 15 minutes in, after entering the info into the kiosk again and not getting a response, I called the store and asked for a manager. It took me a minute to get them to understand that I was calling from inside their store to get my item. But finally, they got it and assured me that someone would be bringing out my item shortly. Another 15 minutes of waiting and I HAD TO CALL THEM AGAIN! And explain, again, that, "Yes, I'm standing inside your store, waiting for the thing I purchased. We talked about this already." All told, I was probably there for 45 minutes before I got my item. That was the last time I bought something from Walmart. Now, I'll concede that this was almost 10 years ago and maybe they've changed. But Walmart has never been known for the best customer service, and Amazon is always fantastic when I have to deal with them. So I'm placing my bet on Amazon in this particular race.

nunez 10y ago

I actually predict Amazon beating Walmart in the long term; brick and mortar stores are losing relevance fast especially with drone delivery becoming a reality "soon"

greedo 10y ago
I think you're underestimating the value of Walmart. Sure for things you can wait to get in 2 day shipping, it's a no brainer compared to driving to Barnes & Noble, or BestBuy. But a large part of the US still shops at brick and mortar stores because they want/need things "right now." Walmart is still a juggernaut, especially in smaller cities, rural areas. And drone delivery... I don't see that being successful for Amazon for another 10 years. Too many technical, legal, and cultural hurdles for that to happen faster, if ever.
- chc 10y ago
  How immediate is "right now"? If you have to drive 45 minutes to the store and back, is that "right now"? If Amazon can deliver it two hours from when you place your order (which they already do in some cases), is that "right now"?
  - bduerst 10y ago
    I also see a trip to the store as a chore, but I see Wal-Mart as being uniquely positioned to do 1-hour delivery from their own stores - which are essentially localized warehouses across most of the U.S.
  - HeyLaughingBoy 10y ago
    If you have a 90-minute round trip to the store, odds are Amazon won't be delivering anything in 2 hours.
  - lozaning 10y ago
    If you've got to drive 45 minutes just to get to a Walmart, Im not sure you live in a population center large enough for Amazon to offer two hour delivery.

ue_ 10y ago

>optimize the efficiency of those workers, make them achieve more with less effort via technology. And to allow Amazon to make bigger profits for itself by laying off or continuing to exploit workers rather than valuing automation as a method so humans can work less.

mabbo 10y ago
I actually was one of those developers, for a number of years. The reality is that we're still very far away from a robot that can visually identify random objects, identify them, and then pick them up in a safe manner. Humans are awesome at exactly that. The automation is coming, yes, and many very tedious tasks are being automated but Amazon has never laid off warehouse employees because a robot replaced them- they just move those humans to jobs robots can't do yet, and grow faster.
- ue_ 10y ago
  The fact is that automation replaced jobs (good thing!) yet rather than the 'savings' being returned to the labourer, so that she no longer needs to work, it is passed to Amazon. That person who was replaced would no longer need to work, at least not that job, in an ideal world. Rather than the automation improving the lives of the workers, it causes suffering by means of making people either unemployed (unemployment itself is not bad, it is only bad within Capitalism because the worker is unable to sustain herself without the State) or to move them to yet another job. In some respects I believe the re-purposing of humans for other jobs may be worse.
  - hueving 10y ago
    >it is passed to Amazon. Incorrect. If that is true, it's only temporary. It is passed to the consumer via lower prices due to competition pressure.
    - ue_ 10y ago
      What about the labourer? He is still being exploited when if it weren't for the profit motive he would not be required to sell his labour. That difference in profit, once the cost of the machinery and its maintenance is substracted, could be passed to the displaced worker. Why should it go to the 'consumer'?

Bombthecat 10y ago

What about mechanical Turks? Could you count them to?

fuzzfactor 10y ago

Do the math. There is no way that 231K could have hired 110K that fast without getting lots who were not above average. There is probably a calculated advantage to becoming an average-to-below-average giant giant as a follow-up to above average e-commerce, logistics, or web gigantism.