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No article last year held me in such horror as this one. I haven't dared even discuss it with anyone until now. It still takes my breath away. Especially becaus

No article last year held me in such horror as this one. I haven't dared even discuss it with anyone until now. It still takes my breath away. Especially because the U.S. now has less class mobility than most of Europe does. Automation is likely to be a "Yuuge" force multiplier for societal stratification; certainly modest minimum annual income grants aren't going to change that. All my life I've wanted to believe everything this study disproves. My parents and grandparents worked very hard for their kids because they didn't thing this was really the way the world worked. But it certainly is. If I want to become damned depressed all I have to do is think about it. There's no reason not to enjoy the day 'cause of it, but it is more than a little demotivating.

JumpCrisscross 10y ago
> the U.S. now has less class mobility than most of Europe does Europe is big. I don't think the United States is less mobile than Italia.
- refurb 10y ago
  You also have to account for the "spread" in classes. If income equality is lower, there is a greater spread in income from the bottom to the top. And the inverse if income equality is higher. Thus, you could have someone in the US start out making $30K, then make $200K over their lifetime. Due to the spread in "classes", they might have only jumped up on class even though their income went up 6x. In Europe, where the classes have less spread, someone could have gone from $30K to $100K and gone from the bottom to the top class. Yes, mobility across classes is greater in Europe, but the American has the bigger increase in income.
kriro 10y ago
I have had heated debates over inheritance taxes. I'm strongly against them because I don't like the signaling effect (if you work really hard, the government will take half of it) and it's a strange form of multi-taxation which is also questionable from my POV. I'm very family driven and I think "working hard to make the life of your children better" is a very strong motivator that should not be underestimated. The counterargument is usually "well let's set the cap at X million" which I find very problematic because I don't see an ethically sound way of defining these lines in the sand. Additionally in the age of webscale(tm) it's reasonably possible to start a "new dynasty" from scratch. Unfortunately most of these debates tend to boil down to "the rich are evil" which is usually when I use interest in them. I've only roughly browsed the study but the effects aren't that big compared to compound interest from 1427 to now. If anything I'd argue the rich are still rich but not as rich as expected is the take away message.
- pcrh 10y ago
  I'm in favor of inheritance taxes as I see it as taxing income of the inheritors. I don't see any rational reason why income from this one source should be exempt of taxation.
  - altstar 10y ago
    One reason can be double taxation. Normally all income and capital growth would already have been taxed.
    - pcrh 10y ago
      Pretty much everything is subject to multiple taxes. For example, the money you spend after income taxes are deducted may further be taxed by the means of sales taxes. Or, the money you invest from your taxed income might be subject to capital gains taxes.
  - imtringued 10y ago
    Wealth transfers from parent to child happen way before the death of the parent. Inheritance tax is not an effective way to avoid this. A different solution is needed
  - saiya-jin 10y ago
    all legally obtained riches were already taxed as per law at the time of earning it. so this is double taxation, and a massive punishing one. same as if you sell a thing you already paid VAT for - new buyer then should also pay VAT on selling price, right? foreign person shouldn't be favored better than your own children.

JumpCrisscross 10y ago

> the U.S. now has less class mobility than most of Europe does Europe is big. I don't think the United States is less mobile than Italia.

refurb 10y ago
You also have to account for the "spread" in classes. If income equality is lower, there is a greater spread in income from the bottom to the top. And the inverse if income equality is higher. Thus, you could have someone in the US start out making $30K, then make $200K over their lifetime. Due to the spread in "classes", they might have only jumped up on class even though their income went up 6x. In Europe, where the classes have less spread, someone could have gone from $30K to $100K and gone from the bottom to the top class. Yes, mobility across classes is greater in Europe, but the American has the bigger increase in income.

kriro 10y ago

I have had heated debates over inheritance taxes. I'm strongly against them because I don't like the signaling effect (if you work really hard, the government will take half of it) and it's a strange form of multi-taxation which is also questionable from my POV. I'm very family driven and I think "working hard to make the life of your children better" is a very strong motivator that should not be underestimated. The counterargument is usually "well let's set the cap at X million" which I find very problematic because I don't see an ethically sound way of defining these lines in the sand. Additionally in the age of webscale(tm) it's reasonably possible to start a "new dynasty" from scratch. Unfortunately most of these debates tend to boil down to "the rich are evil" which is usually when I use interest in them. I've only roughly browsed the study but the effects aren't that big compared to compound interest from 1427 to now. If anything I'd argue the rich are still rich but not as rich as expected is the take away message.

pcrh 10y ago
I'm in favor of inheritance taxes as I see it as taxing income of the inheritors. I don't see any rational reason why income from this one source should be exempt of taxation.
- altstar 10y ago
  One reason can be double taxation. Normally all income and capital growth would already have been taxed.
  - pcrh 10y ago
    Pretty much everything is subject to multiple taxes. For example, the money you spend after income taxes are deducted may further be taxed by the means of sales taxes. Or, the money you invest from your taxed income might be subject to capital gains taxes.
- imtringued 10y ago
  Wealth transfers from parent to child happen way before the death of the parent. Inheritance tax is not an effective way to avoid this. A different solution is needed
- saiya-jin 10y ago
  all legally obtained riches were already taxed as per law at the time of earning it. so this is double taxation, and a massive punishing one. same as if you sell a thing you already paid VAT for - new buyer then should also pay VAT on selling price, right? foreign person shouldn't be favored better than your own children.