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They last. I have a 2-year-old electric Ford Focus and have noticed nearly zero battery degradation; the range has been consistent since day 1. Recycling the ba

by mark242 10y ago

They last. I have a 2-year-old electric Ford Focus and have noticed nearly zero battery degradation; the range has been consistent since day 1. Recycling the batteries is undoubtably less of an impact than even the recycling of engine oil from an ICE car over the same timespan.

Neliquat 10y ago
Got any facts to back up: 1. Zero degradation 2. Recycling (and producing) batteries has less e impact than petrol
- maxsilver 10y ago
  > Got any facts to back up: 1. Zero degradation Zero degradation is simply not true (all batteries degrade) but the degradation issue is largely overblown. I own a 4-year old EV, with over 45,000 miles and well over 500 battery cycles. It has degraded, but only a small amount (less than 10%). Anecdotally, liquid-cooled batteries (Tesla, Chevy) seem to resist degradation better than air-cooled batteries (Nissan Leaf, Renault Zoe. But that assumes high temp swings -- if your careful with air-cooled ones, they can last a long time as well. One thing some manufacturers do is 'lie' about battery capacity, which really helps sell the "zero degradation" claim. If a EV has a "16.5kwH" battery pack, the car might only actually let you use 10.5kwH of it. This way, use is gentler on the pack (you never really go from "full" to "empty", but from "80% full" to "20% full", and the car hides that fact from you), and the pack can swap out degraded cells for unused ones as needed, to maintain the illusion of no degradation. As of today, I think degradation has become a non-issue now that range capacity is decent. Even if a 2017 Chevy Bolt degrades a full 30% after 10 years, it would still be a car that gets ~160 miles on a single charge, which is still useful to many people. (That's 50% more range than a brand new 2017 LEAF gets today, and LEAF is the #1 selling BEV in the US).
dfrey 10y ago
Citing 2 years of life as evidence of longevity is a depressing sign of our disposable culture.
- chipperyman573 10y ago
  In this case, I see it as a good sign. Our battery technology has made so many significant advances that you wouldn't have been able to say the same 10-20 years ago. It's not that we're "ok" with degrading batteries, it's just that we're really really bad at stopping it.
r00fus 10y ago
I'll back this up with a related case - my 12 year old Prius still gets 50mpg+ though its battery pack was upgraded after 5 years (covered under warranty and free). Overprovisioning and paranoid charging profile are probably what resulted in this.

by mark242 10y ago

Neliquat 10y ago

Got any facts to back up: 1. Zero degradation 2. Recycling (and producing) batteries has less e impact than petrol

maxsilver 10y ago
> Got any facts to back up: 1. Zero degradation Zero degradation is simply not true (all batteries degrade) but the degradation issue is largely overblown. I own a 4-year old EV, with over 45,000 miles and well over 500 battery cycles. It has degraded, but only a small amount (less than 10%). Anecdotally, liquid-cooled batteries (Tesla, Chevy) seem to resist degradation better than air-cooled batteries (Nissan Leaf, Renault Zoe. But that assumes high temp swings -- if your careful with air-cooled ones, they can last a long time as well. One thing some manufacturers do is 'lie' about battery capacity, which really helps sell the "zero degradation" claim. If a EV has a "16.5kwH" battery pack, the car might only actually let you use 10.5kwH of it. This way, use is gentler on the pack (you never really go from "full" to "empty", but from "80% full" to "20% full", and the car hides that fact from you), and the pack can swap out degraded cells for unused ones as needed, to maintain the illusion of no degradation. As of today, I think degradation has become a non-issue now that range capacity is decent. Even if a 2017 Chevy Bolt degrades a full 30% after 10 years, it would still be a car that gets ~160 miles on a single charge, which is still useful to many people. (That's 50% more range than a brand new 2017 LEAF gets today, and LEAF is the #1 selling BEV in the US).

dfrey 10y ago

Citing 2 years of life as evidence of longevity is a depressing sign of our disposable culture.

chipperyman573 10y ago
In this case, I see it as a good sign. Our battery technology has made so many significant advances that you wouldn't have been able to say the same 10-20 years ago. It's not that we're "ok" with degrading batteries, it's just that we're really really bad at stopping it.

r00fus 10y ago

I'll back this up with a related case - my 12 year old Prius still gets 50mpg+ though its battery pack was upgraded after 5 years (covered under warranty and free). Overprovisioning and paranoid charging profile are probably what resulted in this.