6 ms·

Thousands of programmer years went in to Win10, and the most positive comment on it is "It's perfectly tolerable if you turn off all that stuff they added." Th

by mundo 10y ago

Thousands of programmer years went in to Win10, and the most positive comment on it is "It's perfectly tolerable if you turn off all that stuff they added." This should be in the dictionary to illustrate the phrase "Damning with faint praise."

freehunter 10y ago
If they change things in noticeable way, damn them for changing things. If they don't change things in a noticeable way, damn them for not making it more noticeable.
uncletaco 10y ago
It's called "throwing shade".
vondur 10y ago
I'd imagine those features that the programmers implemented was not something they had a say in. I imagine Microsoft has a large bureaucracy that determines what features that make it into a Windows release.
hfsktr 10y ago
I think it's the best OS I've used yet really. I remember getting BSOD many times on Windows XP and several times on Win 7 (although they were so rare they were the exception). Almost always those previous iterations had some peripheral that needed help being configured but with Win 10 I haven't had to touch almost anything. My computer has changed to be not comparable to those previous though because I now have a nice GPU, a nice CPU, and a SSD. So any speed improvements, graphic improvements, etc are skewed by the hardware changes I've made since. I didn't turn off anything except the privacy that I could. It's just that I don't have a use case for most of the features (yet).
- computerex 10y ago
  Am I the only one who never had issues with BSOD's, outside of hardware malfunctions?
  - hadfgdasf 10y ago
    How old are you?
  - ygra 10y ago
    Driver malfunctions are common, too. Apart from that, I think my last Windows-induced BSOD was in Windows 2000, indeed. (And I don't think the blue screens in Win9x really count, as they are often a very different phenomenon than a kernel panic.)
- criddell 10y ago
  IMHO, operating systems are a solved problem. I think that's why Microsoft is pushing the line between OS and applications so far into application space. I understand they may want to ship with solitaire and weather and all the other garbage apps, but why not let me uninstall them? I don't go to my computer and think "oh great, I get to use Windows" (or Linux or any other OS), I'm there to run some application. If Windows didn't arbitrarily send data to their servers, I might use the built in calendar or contacts. It feels like they want me to give up my privacy and they are offering nothing in return.
tw04 10y ago
Just because he isn't using the new features, doesn't mean they aren't useful. WSL is great - still needs work but on the insider previews it's on 16.04 LTS and they're slowly knocking out the nagging little issues with it. If you've got a 2-in-1 like a surface book, the switching from desktop to tablet mode is awesome. If you aren't paranoid (and completely understand why some people are) about the security possibilities, cortana is actually pretty nice too. And as they slowly tie it into xbox and their other platforms it will just become that much more useful. Virtual desktop support is finally there. I mean, outside of that, what were you expecting from Windows? It's the most widely used desktop on the planet... it's not like there were any major feature gaps that were just deal breakers.
- mundo 10y ago
  I think we're basically agreeing here, it's just a matter of perspective whether "it has a variety of features that are genuinely useful to a certain niche of users" is proof that Win10 is good or that it's bad. I mean, everything you said is true, but I don't have a Surface or an Xbox, so...
- khedoros1 10y ago
  > cortana is actually pretty nice too. And as they slowly tie it into xbox and their other platforms it will just become that much more useful. Those are some of the things that I find most annoying. I don't want my OS tied into other platforms. I don't want a local search to also be an online search. I don't want a file search to also be a Windows Store search. I don't want a dozen opportunities to link my local user account to be connected to my Windows Live ID. I want the OS to provide a convenient environment to run my software in, and no more. WSL is cool, and I'd like it on my Windows 7 machine. It's a lot nicer to use than Cygwin, and it's enough that I'm not planning on setting up my Win10 netbook to dual boot Linux. The generally lower memory requirement is nice too. Other than that, 10 feels a lot like 7 with more things that I want to disable but can't.
  - computerex 10y ago
    Microsoft really needs to up their game in usability. Windows search has always been and continues to be shit.
coredog64 10y ago
There are also a whole host of security improvements that you can't see. SwiftOnSecurity over on Twitter regularly calls out things that are literally impossible to secure on Win7 that are done for you OOB on Win10.
- khedoros1 10y ago
  Any way to filter out all the extraneous tweets to see that information? I'd be interested in seeing a list, but not interested in signing up for Twitter and following someone with the volume of posts on that account.
  - dyukqu 10y ago
    You can do advanced search using the relevant keywords (etc.) - https://twitter.com/search-advanced https://twitter.com/search-advanced No log in required. (A "win10" search - https://twitter.com/search?l=&q=win10%20%20from%3ASwiftOnSecurity&src=typd https://twitter.com/search?l=&q=win10%20%20from%3ASwiftOnSec...)
Mithaldu 10y ago
I'm a gamer and developer in high performance stuff. I've seen a concrete improvement in both average performance and responsiveness in going from win 7 to win 10 on the same machine.
- chadgeidel 10y ago
  I recently installed both Windows 7 (32 bit) and Windows 10 (32 bit) on a 1 GB memory machine. Memory pressure from 10 was lower than 7.
  - kevin_thibedeau 10y ago
    Most likely from the compressed pages. I recently bought a 2GB Ideapad to use as a toss around machine. I wish it had come with 32-bit Win10 but MS's stupid rules require 64-bit on any processor capable of using it.
    - chadgeidel 10y ago
      Sure, Microsoft has made a ton of improvements throughout the OS from 7-10, not just UI improvements.
    - fuzzfactor 10y ago
      I don't think you would have any problem re-installing using the 32-bit version yourself.
    - DanBC 10y ago
      > I recently bought a 2GB Ideapad to use as a toss around machine. I wish it had come with 32-bit Win10 but MS's stupid rules require 64-bit on any processor capable of using it. Is this correct? There's a bunch of low end machines that have 64 bit processors but not much ram, and thus were installed with 32 bit Windows 10. EG: http://imgur.com/a/yukLR http://imgur.com/a/yukLR
- E6300 10y ago
  That performance improvement happened in 8. 10 didn't bring anything new to the table in terms of optimizations.

by mundo 10y ago

freehunter 10y ago

If they change things in noticeable way, damn them for changing things. If they don't change things in a noticeable way, damn them for not making it more noticeable.

uncletaco 10y ago

It's called "throwing shade".

vondur 10y ago

I'd imagine those features that the programmers implemented was not something they had a say in. I imagine Microsoft has a large bureaucracy that determines what features that make it into a Windows release.

hfsktr 10y ago

I think it's the best OS I've used yet really. I remember getting BSOD many times on Windows XP and several times on Win 7 (although they were so rare they were the exception). Almost always those previous iterations had some peripheral that needed help being configured but with Win 10 I haven't had to touch almost anything. My computer has changed to be not comparable to those previous though because I now have a nice GPU, a nice CPU, and a SSD. So any speed improvements, graphic improvements, etc are skewed by the hardware changes I've made since. I didn't turn off anything except the privacy that I could. It's just that I don't have a use case for most of the features (yet).

computerex 10y ago
Am I the only one who never had issues with BSOD's, outside of hardware malfunctions?
- hadfgdasf 10y ago
  How old are you?
- ygra 10y ago
  Driver malfunctions are common, too. Apart from that, I think my last Windows-induced BSOD was in Windows 2000, indeed. (And I don't think the blue screens in Win9x really count, as they are often a very different phenomenon than a kernel panic.)
criddell 10y ago
IMHO, operating systems are a solved problem. I think that's why Microsoft is pushing the line between OS and applications so far into application space. I understand they may want to ship with solitaire and weather and all the other garbage apps, but why not let me uninstall them? I don't go to my computer and think "oh great, I get to use Windows" (or Linux or any other OS), I'm there to run some application. If Windows didn't arbitrarily send data to their servers, I might use the built in calendar or contacts. It feels like they want me to give up my privacy and they are offering nothing in return.

tw04 10y ago

Just because he isn't using the new features, doesn't mean they aren't useful. WSL is great - still needs work but on the insider previews it's on 16.04 LTS and they're slowly knocking out the nagging little issues with it. If you've got a 2-in-1 like a surface book, the switching from desktop to tablet mode is awesome. If you aren't paranoid (and completely understand why some people are) about the security possibilities, cortana is actually pretty nice too. And as they slowly tie it into xbox and their other platforms it will just become that much more useful. Virtual desktop support is finally there. I mean, outside of that, what were you expecting from Windows? It's the most widely used desktop on the planet... it's not like there were any major feature gaps that were just deal breakers.

mundo 10y ago
I think we're basically agreeing here, it's just a matter of perspective whether "it has a variety of features that are genuinely useful to a certain niche of users" is proof that Win10 is good or that it's bad. I mean, everything you said is true, but I don't have a Surface or an Xbox, so...
khedoros1 10y ago
> cortana is actually pretty nice too. And as they slowly tie it into xbox and their other platforms it will just become that much more useful. Those are some of the things that I find most annoying. I don't want my OS tied into other platforms. I don't want a local search to also be an online search. I don't want a file search to also be a Windows Store search. I don't want a dozen opportunities to link my local user account to be connected to my Windows Live ID. I want the OS to provide a convenient environment to run my software in, and no more. WSL is cool, and I'd like it on my Windows 7 machine. It's a lot nicer to use than Cygwin, and it's enough that I'm not planning on setting up my Win10 netbook to dual boot Linux. The generally lower memory requirement is nice too. Other than that, 10 feels a lot like 7 with more things that I want to disable but can't.
- computerex 10y ago
  Microsoft really needs to up their game in usability. Windows search has always been and continues to be shit.

coredog64 10y ago

There are also a whole host of security improvements that you can't see. SwiftOnSecurity over on Twitter regularly calls out things that are literally impossible to secure on Win7 that are done for you OOB on Win10.

khedoros1 10y ago
Any way to filter out all the extraneous tweets to see that information? I'd be interested in seeing a list, but not interested in signing up for Twitter and following someone with the volume of posts on that account.
- dyukqu 10y ago
  You can do advanced search using the relevant keywords (etc.) - https://twitter.com/search-advanced https://twitter.com/search-advanced No log in required. (A "win10" search - https://twitter.com/search?l=&q=win10%20%20from%3ASwiftOnSecurity&src=typd https://twitter.com/search?l=&q=win10%20%20from%3ASwiftOnSec...)

Mithaldu 10y ago

I'm a gamer and developer in high performance stuff. I've seen a concrete improvement in both average performance and responsiveness in going from win 7 to win 10 on the same machine.

chadgeidel 10y ago
I recently installed both Windows 7 (32 bit) and Windows 10 (32 bit) on a 1 GB memory machine. Memory pressure from 10 was lower than 7.
- kevin_thibedeau 10y ago
  Most likely from the compressed pages. I recently bought a 2GB Ideapad to use as a toss around machine. I wish it had come with 32-bit Win10 but MS's stupid rules require 64-bit on any processor capable of using it.
  - chadgeidel 10y ago
    Sure, Microsoft has made a ton of improvements throughout the OS from 7-10, not just UI improvements.
  - fuzzfactor 10y ago
    I don't think you would have any problem re-installing using the 32-bit version yourself.
  - DanBC 10y ago
    > I recently bought a 2GB Ideapad to use as a toss around machine. I wish it had come with 32-bit Win10 but MS's stupid rules require 64-bit on any processor capable of using it. Is this correct? There's a bunch of low end machines that have 64 bit processors but not much ram, and thus were installed with 32 bit Windows 10. EG: http://imgur.com/a/yukLR http://imgur.com/a/yukLR
E6300 10y ago
That performance improvement happened in 8. 10 didn't bring anything new to the table in terms of optimizations.