10 ms·

Looks great if you're Indian, Irish or female. Edit: Or AU/NZ, missed that one.

by m0nty 10y ago

pbhjpbhj 10y ago
There's also a middle-school program. For those who didn't look there is a very short list of programmes mentioned which discriminate on sex, age, ethnicity.
- dotancohen 10y ago
  A "short list" which is four of the five listed programmes. Id est, 80% of the programmes on the list discriminate.
  - pbhjpbhj 10y ago
    Bad wording, my intention was to say they all discriminate, assuming "middle-school" is intended to refer to an age range. 5 is a short list, no. I assume it's the start of what may later become a directory of offerings. There are masses of MOOCs that aren't discriminating though.
dotancohen 10y ago
I don't see why this rather insightful post is downvoted. The site specifically targets these groups by name. Why in the age of a _World_ Wide Web and "post-discrimination" are large companies such as Google deliberately targeting specific groups? What will be in the girls-only code program that might be inappropriate for boys?
- GrantSolar 10y ago
  >Why in the age of a _World_ Wide Web and "post-discrimination" are large companies such as Google deliberately targeting specific groups? Because the gender ratio in STEM fields skews heavily towards men. >What will be in the girls-only code program that might be inappropriate for boys? I can't imagine there would be anything that was 'inappropriate', though there may be some boys less excited about making a dress light up. Google is using existing gender roles to introduce girls to code and get them excited about STEM, something that may be far more difficult once they grow older.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
  - wolfgke 10y ago
    > Because the gender ratio in STEM fields skews heavily towards men. Girls are free to study what they want. If they don't want to study STEM fields - their problem, which I don't feel having to care for.
    - dwaltrip 10y ago
      Apparently it's your problem as well, because you appear to be personally upset by a program that only helps them.
      - wolfgke 10y ago
        I am always upset over discriminatory programs. If one would replace "women only" by "white people only", you would probably be upset, too.
        dwaltrip 10y ago
        How do you feel about Spanish language programming courses? What about affordable housing? How do you define discrimination? I think there isn't a clear line, and we have to use our evolving best judgment depending on the context. How else can we attempt to more quickly resolve unfortunate and unfair dynamics the past has brought us? Lastly, I think it's a mistake to assume all discrimination is zero sum. We will all reap benefits from previously disadvantaged groups receiving more opportunity.
        wolfgke 10y ago
        > How do you define discrimination? Using any other criterion than ability for e.g. staffing jobs/university places/... In this sense every forced quota on gender/skin color/race/... is discrimination. Women only programs are, too (as "men only", "white only" or "black only"). EDIT: > How do you feel about Spanish language programming courses? Living in Germany I openly don't understand what you want to imply with this question.
- pliptvo 10y ago
  Presumably Google is targeting India, Ireland, NZ and Australia because they have significant bases in those countries. In regards to targeting young women, they're making an effort to redress the obvious gender imbalances and male dominance of the tech world. Why is that a problem?
  - a_j_c 10y ago
    > "In regards to targeting young women, they're making an effort to redress the obvious gender imbalances and male dominance of the tech world." It could be that they are just virtue signaling and trying to appease the easily offended bloggers and tech "journalists"
- hdctambien 10y ago
  > Why ... are large companies such as Google deliberately targeting specific groups? Large companies are judged by the diversity of their employees. They want to hire more women. In order to hire more women, there needs to be more qualified women applying for jobs. In order for there to be more qualified women applying for jobs, there needs to be more qualified women. In order for there to be more qualified women we need to be teaching more girls how to program. > What will be in the girls-only code program that might be inappropriate for boys? It's more about what won't be in those classes, specifically: inappropriate boys. One school of thought about why there are less girls in computer science classes is that the environment/culture? of the currently self-selected students can sometimes (seem) abrasive and uninviting. Maybe that is just a stereotype, but offering classes specifically for underrepresented demographics is at least a method to test that theory.
  - titraprutr 10y ago
    > Large companies are judged by the diversity of their employees And here is the problem - diversity has become a goal rather than a natural consequence of everyone having equal chances. It's not the lack of diversity that those companies should focus on - much more important is an elimination of any kind of discrimination based on gender/race/religion etc.
    - hdctambien 10y ago
      I see it as more of a temporary compensation for earlier gender based biases. In a world where boys and girls are given the same opportunities at (even) younger ages, you wouldn't need something like this. As it stands right now, it is intimidating for a girl to sign up for her first computer science class knowing that it will be full of boys that have been encouraged to do computer sciencey things from an earlier age. There is the perception that the girl will come in at a disadvantage. Allowing a them to sign up for a class with the perception that they all have equal footing/previous knowledge could give them the confidence they need to join the classes with boys that are perceived to have more experience. When the time comes that girls are signing up for computer science classes at the same rate as boys, then classes like this would no longer be necessary. That being said, public schools cannot create X-only classes. There is no discrimination in which students can signup for my computer science classes and I have unfortunately low female enrollment.
- m0nty 10y ago
  I have no problems with these groups in themselves, I'm of Irish descent so it would be a bit stupid if I did. It does seem like a very limited selection, though: there are hundreds if not thousands of other groups which could be accommodated with their own courses. Where are they?
- titraprutr 10y ago
  > What will be in the girls-only code program that might be inappropriate for boys Unfortunately, a lot of tech companies these days consider "positive discrimination" as a good thing.
- Yizahi 10y ago
  Pink code highlighting? :)
- jhanschoo 10y ago
  From the piecemeal nature of these programs it seems to me most likely that they were resources from past initiatives by their local offices that this website just aggregated.
- bluebeard 10y ago
  Well, my guess is as follows: Irish: big corporate tax breaks in that area. India: outsourcing potential. Perhaps more liberal attitudes towards CS education? Women: we really need more women in tech, though on a corporate level where money is the motivator I can only guess what the incentives are. The above are my assumptions and may be wrong. As for your girls-only code program comment, I have taught kids to create things using visual scripting tools. There is a difference in what the girls want to make and what the boys want to make. This was my first hand experience and is a limited insight into a small world.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
cardiffguy 10y ago
I wonder if I'd qualify. I have dyslexia and dyspraxia but always feel like "learning difficulties" put you in the camp of "not disabled enough". I managed to get a first class degree in compsci and recieved the standard disability grant from the uni.
- mcguire 10y ago
  You got a disability grant? Would that be considered reverse discrimination?
  - cardiffguy 10y ago
    In the UK it's fairly standard to get financial support in terms of technology to help with the disability
pliptvo 10y ago
Problem: There's a massive gender imbalance in CS and amongst the coding community. There are loads of men and hardly any women. Most of half the population would never consider working for us or our partners. Solution: Make a website which specifically encourages young girls to see themselves as coders. Problem: We have invested loads of money into our Irish, Indian, Australian/NZ offices, but we could increase our pool of workers from those countries. Solution: Make a website which specifically encourages kids from those countries to start their journey into CS and tech. What is the problem?
- beachbum8029 10y ago
  >What is the problem? It's very disingenuous to act like you're a company started by Mother Theresa that just wants to help make the world a Better Place when all you really care about is your bottom line.
- Lawtonfogle 10y ago
  The problem? Because those actions are discrimination. Using discrimination to fight discrimination largely targets the under privileged members of the privileged groups. It's basically a call for equity instead of equality, except it is limited equity which automatically assume some do not need equitable help. It is also limited in how it's applied. Find the actual problems causing any modern day biases and fix those. Personally I work with some kids to help them love math. In my (admittingly anecdotal experience) there is a bias noticeable in middle school for all kids to not like math that evolves into a gender bias but to some extent hurts both genders' ability and desire to learn. Identifying and remedying the cause of this would do more to help both girls and boys than targeted aid in high-school or college.
- reitanqild 10y ago
  No problem for you. And I have learned to live with it but as a young boy it was extremely frustrating to see girls getting advantages throughout the whole school system just for being girls. Now I am fully aware that I have certain advantages ("privileges") as well but as I said: when you are young this can be extremely frustrating.
hrodriguez 10y ago
I too was very surprised by the limited options. I keep seeing American companies investing overseas instead of building a stronger base at home. It's frustrating. Now, don't get me wrong. I understand these are international firms and it's good to see CS education targeting other communities and certain imbalances in the system but... Their are large swaths of communities right here in the US that could use the support of American companies investing right here in their home-base. As a result, I see these efforts by US firms as a marketing gimmick to help them further their interests in entering new markets and appealing to certain political alliances.
protomyth 10y ago
Apparently if your racial group is listed in the "Other" category of Google's diversity report they won't throw you a life line on education. You know, after they made sure Google Voice wouldn't service one of the tribal community colleges, they could at least do a little outreach.

Looks great if you're Indian, Irish or female. Edit: Or AU/NZ, missed that one.

by m0nty 10y ago

Looks great if you're Indian, Irish or female. Edit: Or AU/NZ, missed that one.

There's also a middle-school program. For those who didn't look there is a very short list of programmes mentioned which discriminate on sex, age, ethnicity.

dotancohen 10y ago
A "short list" which is four of the five listed programmes. Id est, 80% of the programmes on the list discriminate.
- pbhjpbhj 10y ago
  Bad wording, my intention was to say they all discriminate, assuming "middle-school" is intended to refer to an age range. 5 is a short list, no. I assume it's the start of what may later become a directory of offerings. There are masses of MOOCs that aren't discriminating though.

dotancohen 10y ago

I don't see why this rather insightful post is downvoted. The site specifically targets these groups by name. Why in the age of a _World_ Wide Web and "post-discrimination" are large companies such as Google deliberately targeting specific groups? What will be in the girls-only code program that might be inappropriate for boys?

GrantSolar 10y ago
>Why in the age of a _World_ Wide Web and "post-discrimination" are large companies such as Google deliberately targeting specific groups? Because the gender ratio in STEM fields skews heavily towards men. >What will be in the girls-only code program that might be inappropriate for boys? I can't imagine there would be anything that was 'inappropriate', though there may be some boys less excited about making a dress light up. Google is using existing gender roles to introduce girls to code and get them excited about STEM, something that may be far more difficult once they grow older.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- wolfgke 10y ago
  > Because the gender ratio in STEM fields skews heavily towards men. Girls are free to study what they want. If they don't want to study STEM fields - their problem, which I don't feel having to care for.
  - dwaltrip 10y ago
    Apparently it's your problem as well, because you appear to be personally upset by a program that only helps them.
    - wolfgke 10y ago
      I am always upset over discriminatory programs. If one would replace "women only" by "white people only", you would probably be upset, too.
      - dwaltrip 10y ago
        How do you feel about Spanish language programming courses? What about affordable housing? How do you define discrimination? I think there isn't a clear line, and we have to use our evolving best judgment depending on the context. How else can we attempt to more quickly resolve unfortunate and unfair dynamics the past has brought us? Lastly, I think it's a mistake to assume all discrimination is zero sum. We will all reap benefits from previously disadvantaged groups receiving more opportunity.
        wolfgke 10y ago
        > How do you define discrimination? Using any other criterion than ability for e.g. staffing jobs/university places/... In this sense every forced quota on gender/skin color/race/... is discrimination. Women only programs are, too (as "men only", "white only" or "black only"). EDIT: > How do you feel about Spanish language programming courses? Living in Germany I openly don't understand what you want to imply with this question.
pliptvo 10y ago
Presumably Google is targeting India, Ireland, NZ and Australia because they have significant bases in those countries. In regards to targeting young women, they're making an effort to redress the obvious gender imbalances and male dominance of the tech world. Why is that a problem?
- a_j_c 10y ago
  > "In regards to targeting young women, they're making an effort to redress the obvious gender imbalances and male dominance of the tech world." It could be that they are just virtue signaling and trying to appease the easily offended bloggers and tech "journalists"
hdctambien 10y ago
> Why ... are large companies such as Google deliberately targeting specific groups? Large companies are judged by the diversity of their employees. They want to hire more women. In order to hire more women, there needs to be more qualified women applying for jobs. In order for there to be more qualified women applying for jobs, there needs to be more qualified women. In order for there to be more qualified women we need to be teaching more girls how to program. > What will be in the girls-only code program that might be inappropriate for boys? It's more about what won't be in those classes, specifically: inappropriate boys. One school of thought about why there are less girls in computer science classes is that the environment/culture? of the currently self-selected students can sometimes (seem) abrasive and uninviting. Maybe that is just a stereotype, but offering classes specifically for underrepresented demographics is at least a method to test that theory.
- titraprutr 10y ago
  > Large companies are judged by the diversity of their employees And here is the problem - diversity has become a goal rather than a natural consequence of everyone having equal chances. It's not the lack of diversity that those companies should focus on - much more important is an elimination of any kind of discrimination based on gender/race/religion etc.
  - hdctambien 10y ago
    I see it as more of a temporary compensation for earlier gender based biases. In a world where boys and girls are given the same opportunities at (even) younger ages, you wouldn't need something like this. As it stands right now, it is intimidating for a girl to sign up for her first computer science class knowing that it will be full of boys that have been encouraged to do computer sciencey things from an earlier age. There is the perception that the girl will come in at a disadvantage. Allowing a them to sign up for a class with the perception that they all have equal footing/previous knowledge could give them the confidence they need to join the classes with boys that are perceived to have more experience. When the time comes that girls are signing up for computer science classes at the same rate as boys, then classes like this would no longer be necessary. That being said, public schools cannot create X-only classes. There is no discrimination in which students can signup for my computer science classes and I have unfortunately low female enrollment.
m0nty 10y ago
I have no problems with these groups in themselves, I'm of Irish descent so it would be a bit stupid if I did. It does seem like a very limited selection, though: there are hundreds if not thousands of other groups which could be accommodated with their own courses. Where are they?
titraprutr 10y ago
> What will be in the girls-only code program that might be inappropriate for boys Unfortunately, a lot of tech companies these days consider "positive discrimination" as a good thing.
Yizahi 10y ago
Pink code highlighting? :)
jhanschoo 10y ago
From the piecemeal nature of these programs it seems to me most likely that they were resources from past initiatives by their local offices that this website just aggregated.
bluebeard 10y ago
Well, my guess is as follows: Irish: big corporate tax breaks in that area. India: outsourcing potential. Perhaps more liberal attitudes towards CS education? Women: we really need more women in tech, though on a corporate level where money is the motivator I can only guess what the incentives are. The above are my assumptions and may be wrong. As for your girls-only code program comment, I have taught kids to create things using visual scripting tools. There is a difference in what the girls want to make and what the boys want to make. This was my first hand experience and is a limited insight into a small world.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

cardiffguy 10y ago

I wonder if I'd qualify. I have dyslexia and dyspraxia but always feel like "learning difficulties" put you in the camp of "not disabled enough". I managed to get a first class degree in compsci and recieved the standard disability grant from the uni.

mcguire 10y ago
You got a disability grant? Would that be considered reverse discrimination?
- cardiffguy 10y ago
  In the UK it's fairly standard to get financial support in terms of technology to help with the disability

pliptvo 10y ago

Problem: There's a massive gender imbalance in CS and amongst the coding community. There are loads of men and hardly any women. Most of half the population would never consider working for us or our partners. Solution: Make a website which specifically encourages young girls to see themselves as coders. Problem: We have invested loads of money into our Irish, Indian, Australian/NZ offices, but we could increase our pool of workers from those countries. Solution: Make a website which specifically encourages kids from those countries to start their journey into CS and tech. What is the problem?

beachbum8029 10y ago
>What is the problem? It's very disingenuous to act like you're a company started by Mother Theresa that just wants to help make the world a Better Place when all you really care about is your bottom line.
Lawtonfogle 10y ago
The problem? Because those actions are discrimination. Using discrimination to fight discrimination largely targets the under privileged members of the privileged groups. It's basically a call for equity instead of equality, except it is limited equity which automatically assume some do not need equitable help. It is also limited in how it's applied. Find the actual problems causing any modern day biases and fix those. Personally I work with some kids to help them love math. In my (admittingly anecdotal experience) there is a bias noticeable in middle school for all kids to not like math that evolves into a gender bias but to some extent hurts both genders' ability and desire to learn. Identifying and remedying the cause of this would do more to help both girls and boys than targeted aid in high-school or college.
reitanqild 10y ago
No problem for you. And I have learned to live with it but as a young boy it was extremely frustrating to see girls getting advantages throughout the whole school system just for being girls. Now I am fully aware that I have certain advantages ("privileges") as well but as I said: when you are young this can be extremely frustrating.

hrodriguez 10y ago

I too was very surprised by the limited options. I keep seeing American companies investing overseas instead of building a stronger base at home. It's frustrating. Now, don't get me wrong. I understand these are international firms and it's good to see CS education targeting other communities and certain imbalances in the system but... Their are large swaths of communities right here in the US that could use the support of American companies investing right here in their home-base. As a result, I see these efforts by US firms as a marketing gimmick to help them further their interests in entering new markets and appealing to certain political alliances.

protomyth 10y ago

Apparently if your racial group is listed in the "Other" category of Google's diversity report they won't throw you a life line on education. You know, after they made sure Google Voice wouldn't service one of the tribal community colleges, they could at least do a little outreach.