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What are you looking at? According to Wikipedia(1), it is 3.9/100,000 in the USA, and 16 in the Americas. From the source(2), it was less than 1 in the USA by 1

What are you looking at? According to Wikipedia(1), it is 3.9/100,000 in the USA, and 16 in the Americas. From the source(2), it was less than 1 in the USA by 1800. There also variable crime by region in America. Baltimore, St Louis, Detroit and New Orleans have homicide rates around 50. That's higher than any country in Africa or the Middle East. 1 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intentional_homicide_rate#By_country https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_intention... 2 - https://ourworldindata.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/homicide-rates-in-the-northeastern-united-states-1636-1900-pinker-2011-jpg.jpg https://ourworldindata.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/homici... 3 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_murder_rate https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_murder_rate

kasey_junk 10y ago
I mean, I guess maybe I'm taking quotes like "The homicide rate in the US has fallen dramatically over the past few centuries." out of context?
- wallace_f 10y ago
  If you look at the data sources they linked to, they don't support that -- although the data source linked immediately after that quote is from the 1600s - 1800s where the rate did fall dramatically, so maybe that was what was the intended meaning? I don't know what the author's intention is, but the actual data that is not supportive of that, and you can look at it. Edit: to below: go click on the links to the datasets I provided you. Look at the datasets. Do you see historical murder rate in the USA around 1 - 5 in the USA, and that it is now over 50 in some parts. >nor the crime rate in the USA historically compared to now My thesis was that some parts of the USA have higher crime rates than historical (they do). That was my thesis. An additional thesis is also true: At some points in history the historical murder rate in the USA was lower than it is today. You need to link to actual data. The data I linked to supports my thesis. Click on this link and look for yourself. I honestly don't know what your problem is. Are you not clicking the links or being intentionally difficult or something?: https://ourworldindata.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/homicide-rates-in-the-northeastern-united-states-1636-1900-pinker-2011-jpg.jpg https://ourworldindata.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/homici...
  - kasey_junk 10y ago
    I'm sorry, I don't see either of your thesis' supported by your citation. Neither the crime rate in the USA compared to medieval European rates, nor the crime rate in the USA historically compared to now, is worse. Are we just reading the same data completely differently?
    - wallace_f 10y ago
      What? Go click on the links to the datasets I provided you. Look at the datasets. Notice that you see historical murder rate in the USA around 1 - 5 in the USA, and that it is now over 50 in some parts. >nor the crime rate in the USA historically compared to now My thesis was that some parts of the USA have higher crime rates than historical (they do). That was my thesis. An additional thesis is also true: At some points in history the historical murder rate in the USA was lower than it is today. You need to link to actual data. The data I linked to supports my thesis. Click on this link and look for yourself. I honestly don't know what your problem is. Are you not clicking the links or being intentionally difficult or something? https://ourworldindata.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/homicide-rates-in-the-northeastern-united-states-1636-1900-pinker-2011-jpg.jpg https://ourworldindata.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/homici...
      - kasey_junk 10y ago
        Ok, I get where we are crossing wires now. Your "ourworldindata" citations show a decreasing crime rate through basically every period of data except the 1960s and 70s. The period between 1940-1950 show a lower period than now in that it is around 4 p100k then and around 6 p100k now. You are then comparing that to certain city numbers in the USA that are ~50 p100k now. That makes more sense as a thesis and I think I now understand what you are saying. That said, I think it is an entirely incorrect way to interpret the data, as the aggregate numbers that have sub 4 p100k in the historical record do not break out p100k numbers per city. So you have no idea if St. Louis (for instance) is worse now than it was in the "ourworldindata" data set as it isn't broken out that way.
        10y ago

kasey_junk 10y ago

I mean, I guess maybe I'm taking quotes like "The homicide rate in the US has fallen dramatically over the past few centuries." out of context?

wallace_f 10y ago
If you look at the data sources they linked to, they don't support that -- although the data source linked immediately after that quote is from the 1600s - 1800s where the rate did fall dramatically, so maybe that was what was the intended meaning? I don't know what the author's intention is, but the actual data that is not supportive of that, and you can look at it. Edit: to below: go click on the links to the datasets I provided you. Look at the datasets. Do you see historical murder rate in the USA around 1 - 5 in the USA, and that it is now over 50 in some parts. >nor the crime rate in the USA historically compared to now My thesis was that some parts of the USA have higher crime rates than historical (they do). That was my thesis. An additional thesis is also true: At some points in history the historical murder rate in the USA was lower than it is today. You need to link to actual data. The data I linked to supports my thesis. Click on this link and look for yourself. I honestly don't know what your problem is. Are you not clicking the links or being intentionally difficult or something?: https://ourworldindata.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/homicide-rates-in-the-northeastern-united-states-1636-1900-pinker-2011-jpg.jpg https://ourworldindata.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/homici...
- kasey_junk 10y ago
  I'm sorry, I don't see either of your thesis' supported by your citation. Neither the crime rate in the USA compared to medieval European rates, nor the crime rate in the USA historically compared to now, is worse. Are we just reading the same data completely differently?
  - wallace_f 10y ago
    What? Go click on the links to the datasets I provided you. Look at the datasets. Notice that you see historical murder rate in the USA around 1 - 5 in the USA, and that it is now over 50 in some parts. >nor the crime rate in the USA historically compared to now My thesis was that some parts of the USA have higher crime rates than historical (they do). That was my thesis. An additional thesis is also true: At some points in history the historical murder rate in the USA was lower than it is today. You need to link to actual data. The data I linked to supports my thesis. Click on this link and look for yourself. I honestly don't know what your problem is. Are you not clicking the links or being intentionally difficult or something? https://ourworldindata.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/homicide-rates-in-the-northeastern-united-states-1636-1900-pinker-2011-jpg.jpg https://ourworldindata.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/homici...
    - kasey_junk 10y ago
      Ok, I get where we are crossing wires now. Your "ourworldindata" citations show a decreasing crime rate through basically every period of data except the 1960s and 70s. The period between 1940-1950 show a lower period than now in that it is around 4 p100k then and around 6 p100k now. You are then comparing that to certain city numbers in the USA that are ~50 p100k now. That makes more sense as a thesis and I think I now understand what you are saying. That said, I think it is an entirely incorrect way to interpret the data, as the aggregate numbers that have sub 4 p100k in the historical record do not break out p100k numbers per city. So you have no idea if St. Louis (for instance) is worse now than it was in the "ourworldindata" data set as it isn't broken out that way.
      - 10y ago