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They were most certainly tossed off their butts in the antebellum US at least: "Drink was everywhere in early America. “Liquor at that time,” recalled the Massa
by Balgair 10y ago
They were most certainly tossed off their butts in the antebellum US at least: "Drink was everywhere in early America. “Liquor at that time,” recalled the Massachusetts carpenter Elbridge Boyden, “was used as commonly as the food we ate.” Americans drank in enormous quantities. Their yearly consumption at the time of the Revolution has been estimated at the equivalent of three-and-a-half gallons of pure, two-hundred proof alcohol for each person. After 1790 American men began to drink even more. By the late 1820s imbibing had risen to an all-time high of almost four gallons per capita."[0]
That 1820s number, if you do the math, was ~1.4 shots of Everclear or 3.5 shots of modern 80 proof whiskey per day for the average citizen. Wikipedia [1] has some more info on the boozing of people in those antebellum days. Suffice to say, it was a lot of booze. You can debate the strengths of these particular spirits and beers and people's drinking habits, but form what written evidence we have, the US was a nation populated by either a lot of very tipsy people, or a lot of sober people and some very drunk people.
[0] http://www.teachushistory.org/second-great-awakening-age-reform/articles/historical-note-temperance-reform-early-19th-century http://www.teachushistory.org/second-great-awakening-age-ref...
[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuisine_of_Antebellum_America#Alcohol_in_the_antebellum_United_States https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuisine_of_Antebellum_America#...
- maxerickson 10y ago4 shots of whiskey is quite a lot but for many people wouldn't lead to anything resembling drunk if consumed over a period of several hours.
- cypherpunks01 10y agoYep! I think that's what commenter's statement is intended to mean: "the US was a nation populated by either a lot of very tipsy people, or a lot of sober people and some very drunk people".
- maxerickson 10y agoBut even tipsy wouldn't be the case for people that were drinking such amounts everyday.
- paulddraper 10y ago"Buzzed"?
- lovich 10y agoIf I drank a shots worth of alcohol spaced put over 3 hours, I would not feel anything and I am not a particularly large person
- WalterSear 10y agoAnd if you did it every day, you wouldn't feel it at all. But, your liver would.
- taneq 10y agoReally? Most health guidelines suggest drinking no more than 2-4 standard drinks per day. I'd be very surprised if one standard drink per day, spread over a long period, caused any measurable harm.
- maxerickson 10y agoThe CDC warns that moderate consumption increases cancer risk: For some conditions, like some cancers, the risk increases even at very low levels of alcohol consumption (less than 1 drink). https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/moderate-drinking.htm https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/fact-sheets/moderate-drinking.ht...
- corin_ 10y agoGuidelines vary by country, but 2-4/day is high at least by current UK and US guidelines. In the UK it was lowered a year ago to a recommended 14 units per week (UK units - "14 units is equivalent to a bottle and a half of wine or five pints of export-type lager (5% abv) over the course of a week") [1]. CDC website says "According to the Dietary Guidelines for Americans,1 moderate alcohol consumption is defined as having up to 1 drink per day for women and up to 2 drinks per day for men. This definition is referring to the amount consumed on any single day and is not intended as an average over several days." [2] Actually, there's a Wikipedia page with various countries' guidelines: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recommended_maximum_intake_of_alcoholic_beverages#Units_and_standard_drinks https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recommended_maximum_intake_of_... [1] http://www.nhs.uk/news/2016/01January/Pages/New-alcohol-advice-issued.aspx http://www.nhs.uk/news/2016/01January/Pages/New-alcohol-advi... [2] https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/faqs.htm#moderate https://www.cdc.gov/alcohol/faqs.htm#moderate
- BurningFrog 10y agoOr people who were sober most of the time but rip roaring drunk several times a week.
- Balgair 10y agoYes, that is exactly what I meant. Current average alcohol use in the US is very high, but that is due to the skew caused by alcoholics. The median use of alcohol is more 'reasonable'. Other commenters cite the current rates and usage stats. I assume that the 1820's usage patterns are very similar to current one, but I have no data to prove that, hence the last sentence. That said, I think that the point still stands that they were pretty sloshed. Current usage patterns tease this out : https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think-you-drink-a-lot-this-chart-will-tell-you/ https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think... . Today, per that chart, the average American drinks ~1.4 'drinks' per day, not 1.4 shots of pure ethanol. The 1820s were a lush time.
- zeteo 10y ago> “Liquor at that time,” recalled the Massachusetts carpenter Elbridge Boyden, “was used as commonly as the food we ate.” And it made perfect sense in the age before refrigeration. Since alcohol doesn't spoil it's a great way to achieve long-term storage of calories from grains (beer, whiskey) or fruit (wine, brandy). For many centuries the French peasant would be sustained in his daily labors by the bottle of wine in his pocket. In rural areas alcohol was a necessity, not a luxury. Part of the reason why the young Federal government ran into trouble imposing what it thought was a tax on vice [1]. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Whiskey_Rebellion
- narag 10y agoSoft beer I can believe it. But whisky? I don't think so. After a little physical activity, a headache is what you can expect. BTW, was beer popular in USA at that time?
- kevin_thibedeau 10y agoCider was the most common drink.
- jhbadger 10y agoAnd for stronger stuff, Applejack (which is distilled cider; often by the primitive freeze-distilling method).
- brokenmasonjars 10y agoI may be wrong but I remember learning some where some years ago that cider was less in alcoholic content. Sometimes I travel to Ithaca which has a cider store that sells a number of European ciders. Surprisingly a lot are 2.5% to 5.4%. Mead was also drank but I'm not sure it's popularity. If you read Food in England by Dorethy Hartley; beet wine, turnip wine and carrot wine were all being made too. I have a recipe for parsley root wine that I keep meaning to try whenever I have them fresh from the garden.
- Groxx 10y agoCould it be explained with the same imbalance as we currently have, assuming this is accurate? https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think-you-drink-a-lot-this-chart-will-tell-you https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2014/09/25/think... tl;dr: the top three 10% brackets consume ~1 "drink" per day, then ~2/day, and the top consumes ~10/day. That top bracket they summarize as consuming "a little more than four-and-a-half 750 ml bottles of Jack Daniels" each week. --- edit: Which is (750x4.5x0.4)/7=193ml of pure alcohol per day, or ((750x4.5)/7)/(44ml per shot)=11 shots per day. So it doesn't quite, but if you raise the ground floor of half the population to one or two per day instead of zero, it might balance out. 750: ml/jack daniels bottle. 4.5: bottles/week. 0.4: 80 proof = 0.4 alcohol content. 44ml = 1.5floz
- twic 10y ago> ~1.4 shots of Everclear or 3.5 shots of modern 80 proof whiskey per day Or a couple of pints. So that's lunch - did they not drink in the evenings in those days?
- hinkley 10y agoWell, there were a lot of young children in those days too. They drank a lot less (I can't figure out how to say that without sounding sarcastic. They drank, but not much).
- pavel_lishin 10y agoI drank kvass as a kid in Russia all the time in the summer. I don't know which is worse for a kid, on average: a light buzz on most days, or getting sick from drinking tainted water.
- wavefunction 10y agoProbably the tainted water. With tainted water, you're going to vomit or experience diarrhea which leaves you dehydrated. What do you drink then to rehydrate, more tainted water?
- brokenmasonjars 10y agoPerhaps night time being a time to sleep instead of work was a good factor considering electricity and all not coming about until later. Look at the amish and when they go to bed and wake up.
- Balgair 10y agoUmm, who is drinking 2+ pints for lunch every single day of the year and then some more in the evenings? I'm pretty sure that is a lot to drink.
- samirillian 10y agoI did do the math. At 1.5 oz, there are 85 shots in a gallon. 85 * 4 gallons = 340 shots. 340 /.40 (80 proof alcohol) = 850 850/365 = ~2.3 shots of 40% alcohol. But then 1.5 oz shot is pretty small and my knob Creek is 50% :) Edit: so it's 3.5 oz, not shots. Also, mmmmm whiskey.
- Balgair 10y agoGood catch, thank you!
- truthexposer 10y agoIt would be interesting to see the epigentic effects of generations of alcohol use. Kind of like Terence McKenna's "stoped ape" theory.
- Pxtl 10y agoExactly. Besides physiological adaptations like resiliant livers, what about mental adaptations? I mean, are drinker-evolved humans more naturally obsessive and careful and self-doubting to compensate for the clumsiness and overconfidence of drink?
- solidsnack9000 10y agoI wonder if there is not a social evolution attendant to drunkenness. If people are regularly drunk, it means there is a time set aside for excusable inappropriateness. Daily life can be fairly strict because there is a "playtime" that is wild and unaccountable. People learn to express some parts of themselves -- their negative feelings and maybe their true enthusiasms -- under the cover of drink.
- rm_-rf_slash 10y agoThere's also an environmental aspect at play. Italians drink a lot of wine but I have never seen a drunk Italian, not once. The English, on the other hand, get completely hammered. The Romans had trouble instilling their calm Mediterranean cafe culture in the gray and frigid binge-drinking north. It's an environmentally inspired culture difference that goes back thousands of years, so it's hard to draw a conclusion about drinking and humans as a whole.
- jlarocco 10y ago> That 1820s number, if you do the math, was ~1.4 shots of Everclear or 3.5 shots of modern 80 proof whiskey per day for the average citizen. 3.5 shots of whiskey is about the same amount of alcohol as 3.5 beers. Round up, and it's a couple at lunch and a couple at dinner. Almost nobody's going to get very drunk off that, and a lot (most?) people won't even get tipsy. Factor in that people build up a tolerance to alcohol, and it doesn't seem too bad. Long term, I'm curious if it's any worse than 4 sodas a day?
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- Balgair 10y agoYes, but your liver and heart don't like that much ethanol every couple hours, every day of the year. Russian men die because, it is thought, of their drinking culture. https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/31/russian-men-losing-years-to-vodka https://www.theguardian.com/world/2014/jan/31/russian-men-lo...
- Pxtl 10y agoI have to wonder how it impacted human evolution. I mean, evolutionary psychology (for what little good the field is) usually dwells on "savannah ancestors" and whatnot, but centuries of being perpetually drunk is going to have an impact too. Not just in terms of tolerance, but in terms of mental conditions. If the ground-state of the human mind is tipsy, then is sobriety functionally an abnormal state we're maladapted for?
- Houshalter 10y agoIt could go the other way around too. If these people consumed so much alcohol everyday since childhood, they probably built up a decent tolerance to its effects.
- Balgair 10y agoYes, but your liver and heart do not. The early death rates for males in Russia are attributed to alcohol abuse.
- wtbob 10y ago> If the ground-state of the human mind is tipsy, then is sobriety functionally an abnormal state we're maladapted for? I vaguely recall reading that the ancient Persians would make decisions twice: once sober, and once drunk. If their decisions were the same, then they knew that they'd decided correctly. Of course, they ended up being conquered by a bunch of teetotallers … No reference, I'm afraid. It could be very well be total bunk.
- martinpw 10y agoApparently it is a quote from Herodutus, so the reference dates back a long way but that does not necessarily mean it is true: http://skepticalphilosopher.blogspot.com/2009/09/persian-strategy-deliberating-while.html http://skepticalphilosopher.blogspot.com/2009/09/persian-str...
- FabHK 10y agoPity today's Iran is rather more strict about it. In Teheran, can only get alcohol legally in the Armenian community centre, AFAIK: red wine, white wine, or vodka.
- marssaxman 10y agoThose quantities don't sound enormous - nowhere near enough that being "tossed off their butts" or "very tipsy" could have been the typical experience. Four gallons of pure ethanol per year works out to 4*128/365 = 1.4 ounces per day. That would have most likely been consumed in the form of beer or cider, and even if we assume a relatively modest 5% ABV, that's only 28 fluid ounces of alcoholic beverage per day - less than two pints. That's nowhere near enough to get plastered as a regular occurrence - that's just a culture where it's normal that the beverage you consume with your meals happens to be moderately alcoholic.
- selectodude 10y agoThree year olds aren't crushing shots every night, even then. That number was per person in the US at the time. You could probably safely double that number. Four pints per night is putting in work.
- Balgair 10y agoThank you! I did not have the citation for the actual number of drinkers and non-drinkers, so I just included the info as I found it. Interpreting the data, we can see that those that drank did so heavily, though other commenters indicate that it may be similar to current alcohol abuse patterns as I elude to in my last sentence.
- MichaelMoser123 10y agothe article talks about the early modern period - that period would end with the 19th century; They certainly weren't too sober in London town - see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gin_Craze https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gin_Craze But at this point in time Britain had a rather high standard of living (compared with the rest of the world), so go figure. https://www.nuffield.ox.ac.uk/users/Allen/unpublished/econinvent-3.pdf https://www.nuffield.ox.ac.uk/users/Allen/unpublished/econin...
- FabHK 10y agoReminds me, the military defence line across the Kowlon peninsula to protect (then British) Hong Kong from Japanese invasion during WW II was known as "The Gin Drinkers Line" :-) (Unfortunately, the line fell in about two days, and HK in less than two weeks, Christmas 1941...) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gin_Drinkers_Line https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gin_Drinkers_Line
- dahauns 10y ago3.5 gal would be ~13l. Sure, more than today, but not remarkably so: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_consumption_per_capita https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_alcohol_c...