11 ms·

> 4. Dongles - This is another temporary problem until devices are all USB-C. What I've learned from all this discussion about usb-c is that some people replac

by ashark 10y ago

> 4. Dongles - This is another temporary problem until devices are all USB-C. What I've learned from all this discussion about usb-c is that some people replace all their peripherals and secondary devices on a much more aggressive timescale than I do. For me dongles would likely be an annoying companion, with few or no usb-c devices ever plugging in to it, for the lifespan of this MPB if I bought one today. My next one in 3-5 years, that might be a different story. But for this one, now? All-usb-c is a turn-off, as it'll be years before that's a "feature" that makes me say anything other than "oh, that's an unfortunate limitation".

pyrophane 10y ago
And then there are probably quite a few people like me who essentially have no peripheral.
- FabHK 10y ago
  I don't have many peripherals, but traveling frequently I've acquired the habit of not carrying extra USB chargers, but charging iPhone and Apple Watch via the laptop overnight. Can't do that on the "cheap" (non-touchbar) model (while also charging) without extra hub. Worse now with the AirPods.
  - Tanegashima 10y ago
    Why you can't? It has two ports. Also, nobody does that, stop making excuses.
    - FabHK 10y ago
      err, well, I do do that. And it's not an excuse, it's a complaint. Finally, let us count together: 1 port to charge the computer, 1 port (with USB-C to lightning cable, $19) for the iPhone, 1 port (with USB-C to plain old USB dongle, $9) for the Apple Watch, 1 port (with USB-C to lightning cable, $19) for the AirPods That makes 4 ports, and I have 2. Thus, hub it is.
      - dkonofalski 10y ago
        I think his/her complaint about your complaint (uh oh. we broke it.) is that this would be the case for any USB config. If you had the same situation with current USB cables, you'd still need to get a hub so the problem isn't actually USB-C, just the number of devices you're using at the same time.
        FabHK 10y ago
        But but but the old MacBook Air had one MagSafe and two USB ports (and SD card and Thunderbolt), so it had strictly more ports, and I could charge it all at the same time (except now AirPods). But yes, the problem is not USB-C per se, the problem is the small number of ports unless you pony up for the TouchPad model.
  - rayiner 10y ago
    USB-C to lightning cable?
djmobley 10y ago
I also find this strange. My switch (Ethernet) is 10 years old. My DAC (SPDIF) is 7 years old. My monitor (DisplayPort) is 5 years old. My hard drives (USB Type-A) are 3-5 years old. My thumb drives (USB Type-A) are 2-3 years old. My phone (USB Type-A) is 2 years old. None of them are USB-C and I don't plan on replacing any of them soon. With the possible exception of external hard drives, USB-C doesn't offer any benefits over my existing interfaces.
- wodenokoto 10y ago
  It offers the huge benefit that with the right accessory you can connect all those things, including power, at once with just one cable. Almost everything you list are things that would be stationary on your desk, so either you are buying the wrong machine if you don't plan on removing it from the desk, or you'll benefit from having all connected to a dock that can connect via 1 cable to your machine.
- itchyouch 10y ago
  One of the benefits of getting more expensive tech peripherals, especially in the Mac world is that there is a ton of resale value. If one upgrades their mac with every new release, it usually ends up being a 200-500 hit per year depending on market conditions. The more expensive peripherals usually will fetch a decent amount on ebay as well. So for the average cost of around ~$30/mo, one can basically have the latest mac with the latest peripherals all the time. Or one could upgrade every 5 years as well...
  - Neliquat 10y ago
    Riding the edge, does seem to work with some products. But it is also a game of prediction. My Model M was a great investment, but my modems went obsolete in months. Now my DSL modem is 8 years old, and still using the model m. Professional style tools seem to fair the best.
- phil21 10y ago
  How many of those do you use while traveling? The only port I find myself missing so far is HDMI. Having to carry a USB-C to HDMI adapter (actually multiple since compatibility is an unmitigated disaster) is quite annoying. I rarely use thumbdrives, but carrying a USB-C<->female A adapter isn't a big deal since it's so rare and I can just toss it in my bag. For a primarily desk-sitting laptop you're getting a docking station of some sort (monitor or actual) so you get all the above ports with it. I also don't upgrade components there very often either. I do admit this was annoying so far - as the release of the laptop far preceded any decent docks. Single-cable docking though is pretty neat, and a definite upgrade if minor. Really it ended up being a USB-C to HDMI, female A, and ethernet that I need to toss in the bag. The latter two I expect to use a few times a year at most.
general_ai 10y ago
You don't have to "replace peripherals" in most cases. USB-C to USB2 and USB3 cables exist. Just buy a cable and enjoy not having to guess which way is up for the first time ever. The only major pain point is really the monitor.
- dgfgfdagasdfgfa 10y ago
  I think it's hugely ironic the 'U' in 'USB' stands for 'Universal'. Guess they didn't mean it after all.
  - general_ai 10y ago
    It's actually "universal" now, for the first time in history. You can run anything through it, including power and your 4/5K displays. It's far less "serial" than it used to be, though.
    - m_mueller 10y ago
      except there's already a bunch of different usb-c cables looking identical but being incompatible in subtle ways, including official Apple ones?
      - grzm 10y ago
        I've read about situations like this, and it's frustrating to think that something like this can occur. I think it's reasonable to wonder how often this is actually in issue in practice. I don't have a new MBP (or any peripherals for that matter), so I can't speak to this directly. Do you have a new MBP or know anyone personally who does? Have you or they had any issues with cable incompatibility?
      - derefr 10y ago
        This is just as true of any other cable. The Lightning cables you can buy at the corner store look like regular ones, but they don't have data lines, and they won't charge at full voltage. Cables are just awful. Or, one might say, knock-off cables are awful, and you shouldn't let them polute your junk drawer lest you never sort them back out.
skywhopper 10y ago
You only need to replace the cables, not the devices...
- Tanegashima 10y ago
  Shhh, they are the "enthusiasts", they know more than the "Apple sheep that buys Apple's computers"
Tanegashima 10y ago
You don't have to buy new devices, you just buy the connecting cable, done.
kitsune_ 10y ago
It is really annoying if you have expensive gear, for instance professional audio interfaces.
herrkanin 10y ago
The thing is that you rarely won't need to replace the entire peripheral, but can easily replace just the chord. There are mini/micro-usb to usb-c chords out there already, and they will be cheaper in a year.
rayiner 10y ago
What I've learned is that people are really into outrage signaling. So much teeth gnashing from having to buy a $100 hub for a $2000 laptop. Mostly a way of signaling "I'm not like those other Mac users who just sit at Starbucks. I'm inconvenienced because I have lots of peripherals for doing real work."
- maxxxxx 10y ago
  I don't think that's true. I don't like the idea of buying a laptop that for some reason is super thin but then I have to carry around adapters. I would much prefer a lot of common adapters built into the device even if it's thicker or heavier. Make the MacBook Air have only USB-C and thin but the "Pro" should be more utilitarian and practical.
  - rayiner 10y ago
    Do you go to a presentation assuming someone will have an HDMI cable handy to plug into the projector? If you do, you're a braver person than I. But I can carry a USB-C to HDMI cable just as easily as a HDMI to HDMI. At some point, inconvenience to part of the user base has to be outweighed by convenience to everyone else. The new MBP fits a 15" screen into a form factor that is edging in on where 13-14" laptops were not too long ago. The new 13" is edging into where 12" laptops used to be. Given that lots of "pros" and "road warriors" suffer through 12-13" laptops for size/weight reasons, that's a pretty huge benefit that might easily justify the loss of ports for a big segment of the user base.
    - maxxxxx 10y ago
      In my company all projectors have an HDMI cable already so there is no need to carry one. I just think if you need really small go for an Air. With my current MBP I can walk around without adapters and have reasonable confidence that i can deal with most unexpected peripherals like USB devices or HDMI screens. In my view they should have put in a USB-C port but also left at least some legacy ports. My MBP 13 has an SD card reader , screen connector and USB ports and is still pretty small so I don't buy the size argument.

by ashark 10y ago

pyrophane 10y ago

And then there are probably quite a few people like me who essentially have no peripheral.

FabHK 10y ago
I don't have many peripherals, but traveling frequently I've acquired the habit of not carrying extra USB chargers, but charging iPhone and Apple Watch via the laptop overnight. Can't do that on the "cheap" (non-touchbar) model (while also charging) without extra hub. Worse now with the AirPods.
- Tanegashima 10y ago
  Why you can't? It has two ports. Also, nobody does that, stop making excuses.
  - FabHK 10y ago
    err, well, I do do that. And it's not an excuse, it's a complaint. Finally, let us count together: 1 port to charge the computer, 1 port (with USB-C to lightning cable, $19) for the iPhone, 1 port (with USB-C to plain old USB dongle, $9) for the Apple Watch, 1 port (with USB-C to lightning cable, $19) for the AirPods That makes 4 ports, and I have 2. Thus, hub it is.
    - dkonofalski 10y ago
      I think his/her complaint about your complaint (uh oh. we broke it.) is that this would be the case for any USB config. If you had the same situation with current USB cables, you'd still need to get a hub so the problem isn't actually USB-C, just the number of devices you're using at the same time.
      - FabHK 10y ago
        But but but the old MacBook Air had one MagSafe and two USB ports (and SD card and Thunderbolt), so it had strictly more ports, and I could charge it all at the same time (except now AirPods). But yes, the problem is not USB-C per se, the problem is the small number of ports unless you pony up for the TouchPad model.
- rayiner 10y ago
  USB-C to lightning cable?

djmobley 10y ago

I also find this strange. My switch (Ethernet) is 10 years old. My DAC (SPDIF) is 7 years old. My monitor (DisplayPort) is 5 years old. My hard drives (USB Type-A) are 3-5 years old. My thumb drives (USB Type-A) are 2-3 years old. My phone (USB Type-A) is 2 years old. None of them are USB-C and I don't plan on replacing any of them soon. With the possible exception of external hard drives, USB-C doesn't offer any benefits over my existing interfaces.

wodenokoto 10y ago
It offers the huge benefit that with the right accessory you can connect all those things, including power, at once with just one cable. Almost everything you list are things that would be stationary on your desk, so either you are buying the wrong machine if you don't plan on removing it from the desk, or you'll benefit from having all connected to a dock that can connect via 1 cable to your machine.
itchyouch 10y ago
One of the benefits of getting more expensive tech peripherals, especially in the Mac world is that there is a ton of resale value. If one upgrades their mac with every new release, it usually ends up being a 200-500 hit per year depending on market conditions. The more expensive peripherals usually will fetch a decent amount on ebay as well. So for the average cost of around ~$30/mo, one can basically have the latest mac with the latest peripherals all the time. Or one could upgrade every 5 years as well...
- Neliquat 10y ago
  Riding the edge, does seem to work with some products. But it is also a game of prediction. My Model M was a great investment, but my modems went obsolete in months. Now my DSL modem is 8 years old, and still using the model m. Professional style tools seem to fair the best.
phil21 10y ago
How many of those do you use while traveling? The only port I find myself missing so far is HDMI. Having to carry a USB-C to HDMI adapter (actually multiple since compatibility is an unmitigated disaster) is quite annoying. I rarely use thumbdrives, but carrying a USB-C<->female A adapter isn't a big deal since it's so rare and I can just toss it in my bag. For a primarily desk-sitting laptop you're getting a docking station of some sort (monitor or actual) so you get all the above ports with it. I also don't upgrade components there very often either. I do admit this was annoying so far - as the release of the laptop far preceded any decent docks. Single-cable docking though is pretty neat, and a definite upgrade if minor. Really it ended up being a USB-C to HDMI, female A, and ethernet that I need to toss in the bag. The latter two I expect to use a few times a year at most.

general_ai 10y ago

You don't have to "replace peripherals" in most cases. USB-C to USB2 and USB3 cables exist. Just buy a cable and enjoy not having to guess which way is up for the first time ever. The only major pain point is really the monitor.

dgfgfdagasdfgfa 10y ago
I think it's hugely ironic the 'U' in 'USB' stands for 'Universal'. Guess they didn't mean it after all.
- general_ai 10y ago
  It's actually "universal" now, for the first time in history. You can run anything through it, including power and your 4/5K displays. It's far less "serial" than it used to be, though.
  - m_mueller 10y ago
    except there's already a bunch of different usb-c cables looking identical but being incompatible in subtle ways, including official Apple ones?
    - grzm 10y ago
      I've read about situations like this, and it's frustrating to think that something like this can occur. I think it's reasonable to wonder how often this is actually in issue in practice. I don't have a new MBP (or any peripherals for that matter), so I can't speak to this directly. Do you have a new MBP or know anyone personally who does? Have you or they had any issues with cable incompatibility?
    - derefr 10y ago
      This is just as true of any other cable. The Lightning cables you can buy at the corner store look like regular ones, but they don't have data lines, and they won't charge at full voltage. Cables are just awful. Or, one might say, knock-off cables are awful, and you shouldn't let them polute your junk drawer lest you never sort them back out.

skywhopper 10y ago

You only need to replace the cables, not the devices...

Tanegashima 10y ago
Shhh, they are the "enthusiasts", they know more than the "Apple sheep that buys Apple's computers"

Tanegashima 10y ago

You don't have to buy new devices, you just buy the connecting cable, done.

kitsune_ 10y ago

It is really annoying if you have expensive gear, for instance professional audio interfaces.

herrkanin 10y ago

The thing is that you rarely won't need to replace the entire peripheral, but can easily replace just the chord. There are mini/micro-usb to usb-c chords out there already, and they will be cheaper in a year.

rayiner 10y ago

What I've learned is that people are really into outrage signaling. So much teeth gnashing from having to buy a $100 hub for a $2000 laptop. Mostly a way of signaling "I'm not like those other Mac users who just sit at Starbucks. I'm inconvenienced because I have lots of peripherals for doing real work."

maxxxxx 10y ago
I don't think that's true. I don't like the idea of buying a laptop that for some reason is super thin but then I have to carry around adapters. I would much prefer a lot of common adapters built into the device even if it's thicker or heavier. Make the MacBook Air have only USB-C and thin but the "Pro" should be more utilitarian and practical.
- rayiner 10y ago
  Do you go to a presentation assuming someone will have an HDMI cable handy to plug into the projector? If you do, you're a braver person than I. But I can carry a USB-C to HDMI cable just as easily as a HDMI to HDMI. At some point, inconvenience to part of the user base has to be outweighed by convenience to everyone else. The new MBP fits a 15" screen into a form factor that is edging in on where 13-14" laptops were not too long ago. The new 13" is edging into where 12" laptops used to be. Given that lots of "pros" and "road warriors" suffer through 12-13" laptops for size/weight reasons, that's a pretty huge benefit that might easily justify the loss of ports for a big segment of the user base.
  - maxxxxx 10y ago
    In my company all projectors have an HDMI cable already so there is no need to carry one. I just think if you need really small go for an Air. With my current MBP I can walk around without adapters and have reasonable confidence that i can deal with most unexpected peripherals like USB devices or HDMI screens. In my view they should have put in a USB-C port but also left at least some legacy ports. My MBP 13 has an SD card reader , screen connector and USB ports and is still pretty small so I don't buy the size argument.