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Peter Thiel insists that the immigration EO is does not constitute a religious ban [1], but Rudy Giuliani says this is exactly what the President asked for [2]

Peter Thiel insists that the immigration EO is does not constitute a religious ban [1], but Rudy Giuliani says this is exactly what the President asked for [2] (Also, we heard him say as much many, many times). [1] http://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanmac/2017/01/28/peter-thiel-says-immigration-order-does-not-constitute-a-religious-test/#41bb68a63795 http://www.forbes.com/sites/ryanmac/2017/01/28/peter-thiel-s... [2] http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/316726-giuliani-trump-asked-me-how-to-do-a-muslim-ban-legally http://thehill.com/homenews/administration/316726-giuliani-t...

arkitaip 10y ago
Thiel is sycophant and a liar and if he wasn't close friends with Sam and the others he would have been throw out of Y Combinator.
- phreeza 10y ago
  Honest question: are you sure you mean sycophant? He strikes me as a kind of abrasive character, not what I would associate with a sycophant.
ihsw 10y ago
It's not just Peter Thiel but anyone of sound mind -- the top 5 countries by Muslim-majority population are not included. * Indonesia 204,847,000 (87.2%) * Pakistan 178,097,000 (96.4%) * India 172,245,158 (14.2%) * Bangladesh 145,312,000 (90%) * Nigeria 75,728,000 (47.9%) If Indonesia suddenly became plagued by radical Islamic terrorism then it would be on the list too. The seven countries targeted by the immigration ban have been either failed states or antagonistic to the US for the past 30 years, it is quite plain to say that it makes sense for Trump's companies -- and various other companies across a wide swath of industries -- to refrain from conducting business there. To say that other Muslim-majority countries aren't on the list due to conflict of interest is to deny this simple logic. Plenty of other Muslim-majority countries have kept a lid on their populace by maintaining adequate internal security within their borders and providing valuable counter-terrorism intelligence to to the US, meanwhile the seven "countries of concern" have not.
- jacquesm 10y ago
  Consider: (1) this could be just a trial balloon (2) there are no other war torn countries on the list (and there are many) (3) many of the stated reasons for this ban appear to be total nonsense, so people will start looking for alternative explanations.
- chickenfries 10y ago
  You think Indonesia doesn't have problems with terrorism? (Edit: also, Pakistan?). The idea that this is a reasonable counterterrorism measure by any means is a farce that doesn't stand up to the lightest of scrutiny. It's a test of executive power, perhaps for something more sinister [1]. [1] https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5#.dk1h2qrd7 https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e...
  - thenipper 10y ago
    Or Nigeria?
  - sfifs 10y ago
    Not terrorism problems affecting the US - only Indonesia and Australia.
    - saosebastiao 10y ago
      The countries that were banned also do not have terrorism problems affecting the US.
      - MikusR 10y ago
        Then why is US bombing them?
        simplyluke 10y ago
        Excellent question many of us have been asking for the past decade or so.
794CD01 10y ago
Those can both be true simultaneously - the president asked for something, and ended up implementing something slightly different - because what he originally asked for was likely unconsitutional.
becarefulyo 10y ago
I don't understand why it's even controversial to call this a Muslim ban. It's a ban on people from Muslim majority countries, except for religious minorities in those countries.
- cle 10y ago
  Because merely calling it a Muslim ban removes any plausible deniability and exposes the government to all kinds of legal challenges. If the government wants to do some bad or unethical, they won't be straight about it. They will use euphemisms and "newspeak" to disguise their intentions (e.g. "enhanced interrogation"). It's akin to parallel construction. Start with the party that is presumed guilty, then work backwards to change your actions and arguments so that you can still persecute the party but without obviously breaking any laws.
  - refurb 10y ago
    The fact remains that Jews or Christians from any of those seven countries are also banned.
m3rc 10y ago
Peter Thiel is as usual, a snake. He knows he's spreading lies but his support for this administration trumps any dedication to the truth.
TorKlingberg 10y ago
Peter Thiel also said that we shouldn't take Trump's words literally. Unfortunately nobody told the border guards enforcing his executive order.
makomk 10y ago
Rudy Giuliani was also very publicly snubbed by Trump when it came time to appoint people to his administration, so it's not clear if this is actual inside information, revenge, or both.

arkitaip 10y ago

Thiel is sycophant and a liar and if he wasn't close friends with Sam and the others he would have been throw out of Y Combinator.

phreeza 10y ago
Honest question: are you sure you mean sycophant? He strikes me as a kind of abrasive character, not what I would associate with a sycophant.

ihsw 10y ago

It's not just Peter Thiel but anyone of sound mind -- the top 5 countries by Muslim-majority population are not included. * Indonesia 204,847,000 (87.2%) * Pakistan 178,097,000 (96.4%) * India 172,245,158 (14.2%) * Bangladesh 145,312,000 (90%) * Nigeria 75,728,000 (47.9%) If Indonesia suddenly became plagued by radical Islamic terrorism then it would be on the list too. The seven countries targeted by the immigration ban have been either failed states or antagonistic to the US for the past 30 years, it is quite plain to say that it makes sense for Trump's companies -- and various other companies across a wide swath of industries -- to refrain from conducting business there. To say that other Muslim-majority countries aren't on the list due to conflict of interest is to deny this simple logic. Plenty of other Muslim-majority countries have kept a lid on their populace by maintaining adequate internal security within their borders and providing valuable counter-terrorism intelligence to to the US, meanwhile the seven "countries of concern" have not.

jacquesm 10y ago
Consider: (1) this could be just a trial balloon (2) there are no other war torn countries on the list (and there are many) (3) many of the stated reasons for this ban appear to be total nonsense, so people will start looking for alternative explanations.
chickenfries 10y ago
You think Indonesia doesn't have problems with terrorism? (Edit: also, Pakistan?). The idea that this is a reasonable counterterrorism measure by any means is a farce that doesn't stand up to the lightest of scrutiny. It's a test of executive power, perhaps for something more sinister [1]. [1] https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e024990891d5#.dk1h2qrd7 https://medium.com/@yonatanzunger/trial-balloon-for-a-coup-e...
- thenipper 10y ago
  Or Nigeria?
- sfifs 10y ago
  Not terrorism problems affecting the US - only Indonesia and Australia.
  - saosebastiao 10y ago
    The countries that were banned also do not have terrorism problems affecting the US.
    - MikusR 10y ago
      Then why is US bombing them?
      - simplyluke 10y ago
        Excellent question many of us have been asking for the past decade or so.

794CD01 10y ago

Those can both be true simultaneously - the president asked for something, and ended up implementing something slightly different - because what he originally asked for was likely unconsitutional.

becarefulyo 10y ago

I don't understand why it's even controversial to call this a Muslim ban. It's a ban on people from Muslim majority countries, except for religious minorities in those countries.

cle 10y ago
Because merely calling it a Muslim ban removes any plausible deniability and exposes the government to all kinds of legal challenges. If the government wants to do some bad or unethical, they won't be straight about it. They will use euphemisms and "newspeak" to disguise their intentions (e.g. "enhanced interrogation"). It's akin to parallel construction. Start with the party that is presumed guilty, then work backwards to change your actions and arguments so that you can still persecute the party but without obviously breaking any laws.
- refurb 10y ago
  The fact remains that Jews or Christians from any of those seven countries are also banned.

m3rc 10y ago

Peter Thiel is as usual, a snake. He knows he's spreading lies but his support for this administration trumps any dedication to the truth.

TorKlingberg 10y ago

Peter Thiel also said that we shouldn't take Trump's words literally. Unfortunately nobody told the border guards enforcing his executive order.

makomk 10y ago

Rudy Giuliani was also very publicly snubbed by Trump when it came time to appoint people to his administration, so it's not clear if this is actual inside information, revenge, or both.