6 ms·

I remember when HN did not have a political agenda. Right or wrong, this used to be mainly about startups. Now its become a highly political message board

dang 10y ago
No, it hasn't. The rule has been the same for years: most politics are off topic. Check it out: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. The difference between "most" and "all" is significant. HN can't be immune to what's going on in the outside world and we've learned from years of experience that it doesn't make sense to try. At the same time, we're not going to let politics overwhelm the site, since that would kill it. The concern about HN becoming too political or not political enough is as old as HN. There are at least as many users complaining that we're suppressing all the political stories and what not. I wrote more about this at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13516969 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13516969 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13522433 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13522433 if anyone's interested.
- rubidium 10y ago
  I wish I had the time to gather the data. Someone please do this. Make sure to normalize against total activity. I'm a hn user since at least 9.8 years ago (my first HN handle was different than current, which is 7 years old). To my impression as a relatively apolitical person, the site has become MUCH more political in the past year. I may be wrong in that though.
  - pgodzin 10y ago
    The issues affecting the tech community seem to have gotten a lot more political in the past year as well. Immigration issues, net neutrality, surveillance, women and diversity issues have all been particularly politicized recently.
  - jacquesm 10y ago
    > To my impression as a relatively apolitical person, the site has become MUCH more political in the past year. I may be wrong in that though. It's an election year. Some of the policies and statements on display are extremely divisive. Divisiveness breeds discontent at all levels, discussion, intimidation, outright violence.
  - marcosdumay 10y ago
    The entire world became much more political in the past year. Looks like 2017 will increase it even more.
  - chillacy 10y ago
    HN comments are available as a public dataset in Google Bigquery, so you're perhaps 30 minutes away from an answer.
- wtvanhest 10y ago
  I used the word 'mainly' because I understand that HN has always had some political conversation in the background. I have personally learned about immigration issues, digital privacy, etc. etc. on HN. Those are valuable things to understand, and I enjoyed reading about them. Now, it is clear that YC leadership has taken a highly liberal stand. I won't make a judgement on liberal or republican, but it feels more and more extreme. When an organization leans either direction too hard, it loses its purity. YC is becoming the liberal version of the Koche Brothers. HN is reflecting that in YC's movement. I'm sure that Sam Altman and the rest of your team feel that it is worth it, but in my opinion, overt political support by an organization feels like a losing long-term strategy. I guess we will see
  - coldpie 10y ago
    > Now, it is clear that YC leadership has taken a highly liberal stand. How do you figure? It seems more that the GOP has driven off of a sanity cliff, and the "liberal" party is the only party left for sane people to join.
  - freehunter 10y ago
    Supporting civil rights is not taking a "highly liberal stand". Just because American politics has shifted to the extreme right doesn't mean everyone needs to shift with it or that people who were moderates yesterday are now extreme liberals. I would be very afraid of anyone who thinks that protecting the rights guaranteed by the Constitution is "highly liberal". You do realize that the ACUL has been known to defend the rights of KKK and Nazi party members too, right? They stand up for everyone's rights, not just liberals.
    - wtvanhest 10y ago
      I'm a supporter of the ACLU, my cousin even worked there for a bit. Regardless of your personal beliefs, it is clear that YC's involvement with the ACLU is a political decision which does not match their business model. They are even referencing the recent election and republican party's decisions as the reason they are doing it. There were lots of civil liberties eroded during Obama's presidency, but YC & Sam Altman at no point in time stood up and said anything or did anything like they are doing now.
dentemple 10y ago
The travel ban disproportionally impacts the tech community, including "startups." From the hundreds of Big 4 employees who now can't return home or travel overseas, to the 110,000 answers submitted to StackOverflow from the now banned countries, this affects the industry.
- cpburns2009 10y ago
  I would like to know how many people in the tech community are actually impacted by this. A temporary ban on immigration from a few unstable counties is not an embargo.
ProAm 10y ago
It really doesn't. It has a monetary agenda, which is not bad or good but they are doing things for the best interest of YC.
jacquesm 10y ago
> I remember when HN did not have a political agenda. Discussing politics is not the same as having an agenda. > Right or wrong, this used to be mainly about startups. I don't recall such a time and I've been here quite long. > Now its become a highly political message board This is most likely a reaction to real world developments involving a large number of HN participants. Just like HN isn't a San Francisco local affair and yet when BART has issues you can expect it to be upvoted. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7774764 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7774764
- maxerickson 10y ago
  It's also the case that not wanting to have political discussions is itself a political agenda. It might not be a secret or pernicious agenda, but it seems people forget what agenda means.
  - jacquesm 10y ago
    > It's also the case that not wanting to have political discussions is itself a political agenda. Yes, that's an excellent point. It amounts to a denial of service attack on informed discourse.
  - wtvanhest 10y ago
    Yes, that is true, but there are many, many channels for that type of discussion. I don't want politics to be in my face 100% of the day.
gtaylor 10y ago
Being indifferent and taking our (US) liberties for granted have landed us in a tough spot. While it isn't ideal for YC to have to get involved, it's going to be a knock-down-drag-out to prevent as much damage as we can. This is probably going to be annoying to a subset of the users here that don't care or who support the current administration. There is no pleasing everyone. But YC is an org in the US, and will be affected by what is happening. I was very happy to see YC do their part in what will be a 4-8 year (at least) battle of attrition and will. The ACLU is one of the best advocates for the people, in a country where corporate and religious lobbying trumps most.
stephancoral 10y ago
Politics are involved in everything. Each business decision made by a company the size and scale of YC has political ramifications. Even something 'innocuous' as funding Scribd is a political move - why? Think about copyrights, the lawyers needed to handle trademark laws and to challenge them. Or Soylent - they circumvent the FDA and do direct food testing on people, resulting in contamination outbreaks. Are these not political moves, this policy of 'disruption' i.e. grey-area skirting of existing so-called 'burdensome' regulation(s)? There are no vacuums anymore, if there ever were (which I doubt). If something is 'about' startups then it is by necessity also about the politics those companies are involved in, especially considering in the US companies are persons with certain rights of expression. Thanks to the intertwining of capitalism with our representative democracy by way of lobbying, our everyday lives are politicized. Should we suppress these notions or engage with them?
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

dang 10y ago

No, it hasn't. The rule has been the same for years: most politics are off topic. Check it out: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html. The difference between "most" and "all" is significant. HN can't be immune to what's going on in the outside world and we've learned from years of experience that it doesn't make sense to try. At the same time, we're not going to let politics overwhelm the site, since that would kill it. The concern about HN becoming too political or not political enough is as old as HN. There are at least as many users complaining that we're suppressing all the political stories and what not. I wrote more about this at https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13516969 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13516969 and https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13522433 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13522433 if anyone's interested.

rubidium 10y ago
I wish I had the time to gather the data. Someone please do this. Make sure to normalize against total activity. I'm a hn user since at least 9.8 years ago (my first HN handle was different than current, which is 7 years old). To my impression as a relatively apolitical person, the site has become MUCH more political in the past year. I may be wrong in that though.
- pgodzin 10y ago
  The issues affecting the tech community seem to have gotten a lot more political in the past year as well. Immigration issues, net neutrality, surveillance, women and diversity issues have all been particularly politicized recently.
- jacquesm 10y ago
  > To my impression as a relatively apolitical person, the site has become MUCH more political in the past year. I may be wrong in that though. It's an election year. Some of the policies and statements on display are extremely divisive. Divisiveness breeds discontent at all levels, discussion, intimidation, outright violence.
- marcosdumay 10y ago
  The entire world became much more political in the past year. Looks like 2017 will increase it even more.
- chillacy 10y ago
  HN comments are available as a public dataset in Google Bigquery, so you're perhaps 30 minutes away from an answer.
wtvanhest 10y ago
I used the word 'mainly' because I understand that HN has always had some political conversation in the background. I have personally learned about immigration issues, digital privacy, etc. etc. on HN. Those are valuable things to understand, and I enjoyed reading about them. Now, it is clear that YC leadership has taken a highly liberal stand. I won't make a judgement on liberal or republican, but it feels more and more extreme. When an organization leans either direction too hard, it loses its purity. YC is becoming the liberal version of the Koche Brothers. HN is reflecting that in YC's movement. I'm sure that Sam Altman and the rest of your team feel that it is worth it, but in my opinion, overt political support by an organization feels like a losing long-term strategy. I guess we will see
- coldpie 10y ago
  > Now, it is clear that YC leadership has taken a highly liberal stand. How do you figure? It seems more that the GOP has driven off of a sanity cliff, and the "liberal" party is the only party left for sane people to join.
- freehunter 10y ago
  Supporting civil rights is not taking a "highly liberal stand". Just because American politics has shifted to the extreme right doesn't mean everyone needs to shift with it or that people who were moderates yesterday are now extreme liberals. I would be very afraid of anyone who thinks that protecting the rights guaranteed by the Constitution is "highly liberal". You do realize that the ACUL has been known to defend the rights of KKK and Nazi party members too, right? They stand up for everyone's rights, not just liberals.
  - wtvanhest 10y ago
    I'm a supporter of the ACLU, my cousin even worked there for a bit. Regardless of your personal beliefs, it is clear that YC's involvement with the ACLU is a political decision which does not match their business model. They are even referencing the recent election and republican party's decisions as the reason they are doing it. There were lots of civil liberties eroded during Obama's presidency, but YC & Sam Altman at no point in time stood up and said anything or did anything like they are doing now.

dentemple 10y ago

The travel ban disproportionally impacts the tech community, including "startups." From the hundreds of Big 4 employees who now can't return home or travel overseas, to the 110,000 answers submitted to StackOverflow from the now banned countries, this affects the industry.

cpburns2009 10y ago
I would like to know how many people in the tech community are actually impacted by this. A temporary ban on immigration from a few unstable counties is not an embargo.

ProAm 10y ago

It really doesn't. It has a monetary agenda, which is not bad or good but they are doing things for the best interest of YC.

jacquesm 10y ago

> I remember when HN did not have a political agenda. Discussing politics is not the same as having an agenda. > Right or wrong, this used to be mainly about startups. I don't recall such a time and I've been here quite long. > Now its become a highly political message board This is most likely a reaction to real world developments involving a large number of HN participants. Just like HN isn't a San Francisco local affair and yet when BART has issues you can expect it to be upvoted. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7774764 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7774764

maxerickson 10y ago
It's also the case that not wanting to have political discussions is itself a political agenda. It might not be a secret or pernicious agenda, but it seems people forget what agenda means.
- jacquesm 10y ago
  > It's also the case that not wanting to have political discussions is itself a political agenda. Yes, that's an excellent point. It amounts to a denial of service attack on informed discourse.
- wtvanhest 10y ago
  Yes, that is true, but there are many, many channels for that type of discussion. I don't want politics to be in my face 100% of the day.

gtaylor 10y ago

Being indifferent and taking our (US) liberties for granted have landed us in a tough spot. While it isn't ideal for YC to have to get involved, it's going to be a knock-down-drag-out to prevent as much damage as we can. This is probably going to be annoying to a subset of the users here that don't care or who support the current administration. There is no pleasing everyone. But YC is an org in the US, and will be affected by what is happening. I was very happy to see YC do their part in what will be a 4-8 year (at least) battle of attrition and will. The ACLU is one of the best advocates for the people, in a country where corporate and religious lobbying trumps most.

stephancoral 10y ago

Politics are involved in everything. Each business decision made by a company the size and scale of YC has political ramifications. Even something 'innocuous' as funding Scribd is a political move - why? Think about copyrights, the lawyers needed to handle trademark laws and to challenge them. Or Soylent - they circumvent the FDA and do direct food testing on people, resulting in contamination outbreaks. Are these not political moves, this policy of 'disruption' i.e. grey-area skirting of existing so-called 'burdensome' regulation(s)? There are no vacuums anymore, if there ever were (which I doubt). If something is 'about' startups then it is by necessity also about the politics those companies are involved in, especially considering in the US companies are persons with certain rights of expression. Thanks to the intertwining of capitalism with our representative democracy by way of lobbying, our everyday lives are politicized. Should we suppress these notions or engage with them?

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]