5 ms·

It's always somebody else who pollutes. Try this: for one week, don't have any food that requires any packaging. Don't just think about it. Do it. Then look ba

by spodek 10y ago

It's always somebody else who pollutes. Try this: for one week, don't have any food that requires any packaging. Don't just think about it. Do it. Then look back at how much packaging you needlessly go through. Or try not flying for one year. You won't die. In fact, you'll figure out ways to enjoy life without causing all that jet fuel to go into the atmosphere. Then look back at how much pollution you needlessly cause. People lived for tens of thousands of years without food packaging or flying while still making themselves happy. If you're going to call someone soulless and a dead-eyed scumbag, are you ready to look at your own behavior? Or is your pollution better than theirs? Do your excuses apply to you but theirs don't apply to theirs? I'll probably get downvoted because people don't like facing their pollution, only everyone else's. Theirs is always okay, or can't be avoided. Bottom line: if you want them to reduce their plastic, you can reduce yours.

kuschku 10y ago
Well, and that’s why the German railway runs in many areas all trains with electricity from renewables, and why stores like http://original-unverpackt.de/ http://original-unverpackt.de/ are a thing (it’s a franchise-chain of stores that sell products without any packaging, getting quite popular in Germany nowadays).
oftenwrong 10y ago
>Try this: for one week, don't have any food that requires any packaging. Don't just think about it. Do it. Then look back at how much packaging you needlessly go through. Coincidentally, I did try this a few years ago when I was testing how easily I could go "zero waste". I found I could buy very few foods without packaging. I could buy produce with minimal packaging - just rubber bands, twist ties, and stickers - but produce is increasingly sold in plastic bubbles and bags, so the selection was limited. There was some room for choice here: many types of produce, like carrots, were available both loose and in plastic bags. I could buy the loose ones. Also, most people use the plastic produce bags, but I could just bring my produce up to the checkout counter without them . I have done that since. I thought I could buy meat and fish at the counter, and bring my own containers instead of using the plastic and paper wrapping they use, but I was informed that it would be against health codes for them to use anything I provided. Also, some stores do not have a meat counter- they sell all meat shrink-wrapped on plastic trays. At the very least, I thought I could use my own containers in the self-serve bulk dry goods section of some local stores, where you can get beans, oatmeal, rice, cereal, dried fruit, etc. Nope - also against the health codes. You can only use the flimsy plastic containers they provide. It occurred to me that I could bring back one of their containers, and they would never know it was used. However, the containers are not at all durable, so they would break during washing, and it was difficult to clean the channel of the lids. I heard that at one far-away health food store they allow you to use your own containers despite the health codes, but I have yet to go there. Worryingly, these sections of the store seem much less popular, and people tend to buy the pre-packaged versions because it's easier to just grab something off of the shelf. I would not be surprised if these sections are phased out in the near future. Basically, the way we sell food here makes it hard to avoid packaging. Although I live in an area with many people who (claim to) care about the environment, it seems like there is no way to stem the tide of our general preference for lots of packaging around food. In other areas people seem better about this. When I was in California I went to Berkeley Bowl, and, true to stereotype, I saw lots of packaging-free food, people bringing their own containers, and more locally-sourced food.
gech 10y ago
Supply side is historically, systemically more enfranchised to effect reality than any given individual. You cannot stand up the individual against contemporary profit-motivated industry as equals in any argument.
majkinetor 10y ago
Consumers are not the source of the problem. Nobody asked for microbeads - you can sell anything.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
facepalm 10y ago
Packaging is useful, and can be properly disposed off. Microbeads - not really.
Dylan16807 10y ago
> I'll probably get downvoted because people don't like facing their pollution Oh shut up. You are violently misconstruing the comment you're replying to. It's not about using plastic. It's about putting in a special, harmful kind of plastic that does not improve the product in any way. It's extremely different from packaging, which is important for almost all products.
- melling 10y ago
  NO, according to the article, you are wrong: ""The biggest source is likely larger plastic items that we can see during beach cleanups that enter the water and over time break down with the sunlight into smaller and smaller pieces of microplastic." Think plastic bags, styrofoam takeout containers and plastic cutlery, says Rochman."
  - Dylan16807 10y ago
    That is irrelevant to this discussion of neotek's comment. "I know this article is about more than just microbeads" is at the start of that comment. The frustration is not all plastic. The frustration is the microbeads.
jeppebemad 10y ago
Packaging does serve a purpose; making food last longer. I'm not saying that packaging is good, but the stunning amount of food waste today would be even greater without it, causing other types of environmental contaminations.
alexandercrohde 10y ago
Waaay oversimplified. It almost sounds like you're suggesting that if we use any plastics for convenience then we have no right to ask corporations to not wreck the environment wholesale. I use plastics, but I dispose of them in the trash or recycling, and I sure hope they don't end up in the ocean. If they do, then I'd be happy to work on a government solution to not have all our trash end up in our food. So comparing using packing to creating pieces of plastic in shampoos that nobody asked for that go into waste water is not reasonable. Also packing materials is a terrible choice because I can't choose my packaging materials. I'd be fine if all my things were packed with paper, it just saves amazon 20 cents to use styrofoam peanuts. I'd gladly pay 20 cents more for paper-only-packaging. The other point is, you're making the whole thing unreasonably black-and-white. If you think that consumers are the problem, why not come up with some kind of research that explains why most of this plastic in this fish comes from things uniquely under a consumer's control.

by spodek 10y ago

kuschku 10y ago

Well, and that’s why the German railway runs in many areas all trains with electricity from renewables, and why stores like http://original-unverpackt.de/ http://original-unverpackt.de/ are a thing (it’s a franchise-chain of stores that sell products without any packaging, getting quite popular in Germany nowadays).

oftenwrong 10y ago

>Try this: for one week, don't have any food that requires any packaging. Don't just think about it. Do it. Then look back at how much packaging you needlessly go through. Coincidentally, I did try this a few years ago when I was testing how easily I could go "zero waste". I found I could buy very few foods without packaging. I could buy produce with minimal packaging - just rubber bands, twist ties, and stickers - but produce is increasingly sold in plastic bubbles and bags, so the selection was limited. There was some room for choice here: many types of produce, like carrots, were available both loose and in plastic bags. I could buy the loose ones. Also, most people use the plastic produce bags, but I could just bring my produce up to the checkout counter without them . I have done that since. I thought I could buy meat and fish at the counter, and bring my own containers instead of using the plastic and paper wrapping they use, but I was informed that it would be against health codes for them to use anything I provided. Also, some stores do not have a meat counter- they sell all meat shrink-wrapped on plastic trays. At the very least, I thought I could use my own containers in the self-serve bulk dry goods section of some local stores, where you can get beans, oatmeal, rice, cereal, dried fruit, etc. Nope - also against the health codes. You can only use the flimsy plastic containers they provide. It occurred to me that I could bring back one of their containers, and they would never know it was used. However, the containers are not at all durable, so they would break during washing, and it was difficult to clean the channel of the lids. I heard that at one far-away health food store they allow you to use your own containers despite the health codes, but I have yet to go there. Worryingly, these sections of the store seem much less popular, and people tend to buy the pre-packaged versions because it's easier to just grab something off of the shelf. I would not be surprised if these sections are phased out in the near future. Basically, the way we sell food here makes it hard to avoid packaging. Although I live in an area with many people who (claim to) care about the environment, it seems like there is no way to stem the tide of our general preference for lots of packaging around food. In other areas people seem better about this. When I was in California I went to Berkeley Bowl, and, true to stereotype, I saw lots of packaging-free food, people bringing their own containers, and more locally-sourced food.

gech 10y ago

Supply side is historically, systemically more enfranchised to effect reality than any given individual. You cannot stand up the individual against contemporary profit-motivated industry as equals in any argument.

majkinetor 10y ago

Consumers are not the source of the problem. Nobody asked for microbeads - you can sell anything.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

facepalm 10y ago

Packaging is useful, and can be properly disposed off. Microbeads - not really.

Dylan16807 10y ago

> I'll probably get downvoted because people don't like facing their pollution Oh shut up. You are violently misconstruing the comment you're replying to. It's not about using plastic. It's about putting in a special, harmful kind of plastic that does not improve the product in any way. It's extremely different from packaging, which is important for almost all products.

melling 10y ago
NO, according to the article, you are wrong: ""The biggest source is likely larger plastic items that we can see during beach cleanups that enter the water and over time break down with the sunlight into smaller and smaller pieces of microplastic." Think plastic bags, styrofoam takeout containers and plastic cutlery, says Rochman."
- Dylan16807 10y ago
  That is irrelevant to this discussion of neotek's comment. "I know this article is about more than just microbeads" is at the start of that comment. The frustration is not all plastic. The frustration is the microbeads.

jeppebemad 10y ago

Packaging does serve a purpose; making food last longer. I'm not saying that packaging is good, but the stunning amount of food waste today would be even greater without it, causing other types of environmental contaminations.

alexandercrohde 10y ago

Waaay oversimplified. It almost sounds like you're suggesting that if we use any plastics for convenience then we have no right to ask corporations to not wreck the environment wholesale. I use plastics, but I dispose of them in the trash or recycling, and I sure hope they don't end up in the ocean. If they do, then I'd be happy to work on a government solution to not have all our trash end up in our food. So comparing using packing to creating pieces of plastic in shampoos that nobody asked for that go into waste water is not reasonable. Also packing materials is a terrible choice because I can't choose my packaging materials. I'd be fine if all my things were packed with paper, it just saves amazon 20 cents to use styrofoam peanuts. I'd gladly pay 20 cents more for paper-only-packaging. The other point is, you're making the whole thing unreasonably black-and-white. If you think that consumers are the problem, why not come up with some kind of research that explains why most of this plastic in this fish comes from things uniquely under a consumer's control.