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You're lucky if you encountered many intellectuals as an undergrad. But actually I think you're right - skilled white collar jobs will die out before skilled o

You're lucky if you encountered many intellectuals as an undergrad. But actually I think you're right - skilled white collar jobs will die out before skilled or unskilled "blue collar" jobs do. People always will need a broken car fixed, or a wall in their house repaired. The world doesn't necessarily need brand managers and analysts. Most think-work jobs in offices (which college is preparing you for) are non-essential in the grand scheme of things.

timr 16y ago
I encountered a lot of intellectuals as an undergrad, actually -- and I didn't go to a particularly great school. An undergraduate education is worth what you make of it. If you hang out with idiots, you'll find idiots. Everywhere. But if you're the type of person who would succeed without a degree, you'll have far more opportunity if you can finish college. It's a fact. Also, you've entirely missed the point of what I wrote: if we do end up living in a world where skilled jobs die out before unskilled jobs, we're in trouble. Hundreds of years of human societal progress have depended upon education and technological development. When that trend goes the other way, our society is well on its way to decline. When I look over the comments in this thread, I can't help but noticed that 90% of them can be summarized as "I knew some stupid kids in college who did things I think are useless; I knew some kids who didn't go to college and succeeded; therefore, college is useless." It's a logical fallacy, writ large. And when you start associating symbols of education with effete snobbery, you're engaging in anti-intellectualism, no matter what you've accomplished in life, or how many books you read in your spare time. I honestly don't know why my (parent) comment deserves to be voted down into the weeds, but it makes me a little sad that we've reached the point where a group of "smart" people can so utterly dismiss a factual comment in favor of group-think. If you don't think college is worthwhile, that's fine. But it's still a fact that a college education is associated with higher lifetime income and greater job stability. And I stand by my assertion that if this trend ever reverses itself, our society is in trouble. Glorification of blue-collar labor is a fad reserved to those nations who have the luxury of a lot wealth to lose.
- starkfist 16y ago
  I didn't miss your point, I just didn't re-iterate it. I am in agreement with you, but I am pessimistic. I think we are in trouble. Regarding intellectuals at university, I also met a handful, and I bet the school I went to was much worse than yours. That said, it seems hard to argue that advanced education in the USA is promoted as a place for intellectual advancement. At best, university is marketed as a way to get a better job. At worst, it's the place where Girls Go Wild.
  - timr 16y ago
    "I didn't miss your point, I just didn't re-iterate it. I am in agreement with you, but I am pessimistic. I think we are in trouble." Fair enough. Sorry for misunderstanding. I was/am mainly replying to the general anti-intellectual attitude on this thread, but I did misinterpret the tone of your remark (I was under the impression that you thought it was okay that white-collar jobs might be diminishing). "it seems hard to argue that advanced education in the USA is promoted as a place for intellectual advancement. At best, university is marketed as a way to get a better job. At worst, it's the place where Girls Go Wild." I think that the marketing strongly depends on the school, but yes, some schools do focus on promoting the career training aspect of college. Nevertheless, my feeling is that (with the exception of schools like ITT and the University of Phoenix) the marketing is distinct from the experience. Once you're in college, you've got huge opportunities for learning that you wouldn't otherwise. The people in this forum who dismiss college as an unnecessary affectation of the elite scare me. It's one thing to be philosophical about the value of a philosophy degree, but it's totally another to assume that college is useless because you can always get work as a plumber (or a coder). I don't think they realize how much the well-being of plumbers (and coders) depends on the people who create new knowledge and technology at universities.

timr 16y ago

I encountered a lot of intellectuals as an undergrad, actually -- and I didn't go to a particularly great school. An undergraduate education is worth what you make of it. If you hang out with idiots, you'll find idiots. Everywhere. But if you're the type of person who would succeed without a degree, you'll have far more opportunity if you can finish college. It's a fact. Also, you've entirely missed the point of what I wrote: if we do end up living in a world where skilled jobs die out before unskilled jobs, we're in trouble. Hundreds of years of human societal progress have depended upon education and technological development. When that trend goes the other way, our society is well on its way to decline. When I look over the comments in this thread, I can't help but noticed that 90% of them can be summarized as "I knew some stupid kids in college who did things I think are useless; I knew some kids who didn't go to college and succeeded; therefore, college is useless." It's a logical fallacy, writ large. And when you start associating symbols of education with effete snobbery, you're engaging in anti-intellectualism, no matter what you've accomplished in life, or how many books you read in your spare time. I honestly don't know why my (parent) comment deserves to be voted down into the weeds, but it makes me a little sad that we've reached the point where a group of "smart" people can so utterly dismiss a factual comment in favor of group-think. If you don't think college is worthwhile, that's fine. But it's still a fact that a college education is associated with higher lifetime income and greater job stability. And I stand by my assertion that if this trend ever reverses itself, our society is in trouble. Glorification of blue-collar labor is a fad reserved to those nations who have the luxury of a lot wealth to lose.

starkfist 16y ago
I didn't miss your point, I just didn't re-iterate it. I am in agreement with you, but I am pessimistic. I think we are in trouble. Regarding intellectuals at university, I also met a handful, and I bet the school I went to was much worse than yours. That said, it seems hard to argue that advanced education in the USA is promoted as a place for intellectual advancement. At best, university is marketed as a way to get a better job. At worst, it's the place where Girls Go Wild.
- timr 16y ago
  "I didn't miss your point, I just didn't re-iterate it. I am in agreement with you, but I am pessimistic. I think we are in trouble." Fair enough. Sorry for misunderstanding. I was/am mainly replying to the general anti-intellectual attitude on this thread, but I did misinterpret the tone of your remark (I was under the impression that you thought it was okay that white-collar jobs might be diminishing). "it seems hard to argue that advanced education in the USA is promoted as a place for intellectual advancement. At best, university is marketed as a way to get a better job. At worst, it's the place where Girls Go Wild." I think that the marketing strongly depends on the school, but yes, some schools do focus on promoting the career training aspect of college. Nevertheless, my feeling is that (with the exception of schools like ITT and the University of Phoenix) the marketing is distinct from the experience. Once you're in college, you've got huge opportunities for learning that you wouldn't otherwise. The people in this forum who dismiss college as an unnecessary affectation of the elite scare me. It's one thing to be philosophical about the value of a philosophy degree, but it's totally another to assume that college is useless because you can always get work as a plumber (or a coder). I don't think they realize how much the well-being of plumbers (and coders) depends on the people who create new knowledge and technology at universities.