7 ms·

This is meaningless grandstanding until: 1) YC voted Thiel off the island 2) YC establishes a policy of "take money from Thiel and you are toxic to us" Anyone

by jowiar 10y ago

This is meaningless grandstanding until: 1) YC voted Thiel off the island 2) YC establishes a policy of "take money from Thiel and you are toxic to us" Anyone in a position of power who took a look at Trump and didn't recoil with disgust needs to be exiled from civil society.

qwertyuiop924 10y ago
>Anyone in a position of power who took a look at Trump and didn't recoil with disgust needs to be exiled from civil society. I don't like Trump, but fighting him isn't worth going against the very principles we fight for. People have a right to their beliefs, even if their beliefs are stupid. If not, than what kind of country are we?
- MusaTheRedGuard 10y ago
  People have a right to their beliefs, and those beliefs sometimes have strong social consequences.
- jowiar 10y ago
  People have a right to choose who they (do or don't) associate with. And people have a right to judge those based on who they deem worthy of association. Thiel can believe what he wants. He can say what he wants. Mostly it shows he's a cowardly little narcissistic shit. And it's damn telling when folks still keep him around.
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- kasey_junk 10y ago
  I'm not sure of any nominal principle that says we have to do business with, work for or to invite to things people who behave abhorrently. That Thiel can get a table at a restaurant in SV proves all the talk about changing the world tech leaders do is so much nonsense.
  - ryanx435 10y ago
    It's crazy that you can't see how hypocritical you are: you ate literally saying that restaurants shouls ban thiel because he supports a person who bans people. Look in a mirror once in a while, buddy
    - kasey_junk 10y ago
      There is a significant difference between voluntary association and compulsory exclusion through use of force. It's not even partially hypocritical to claim one is ok & the other isn't.
    - ebola1717 10y ago
      Are you really comparing divestment to segregation????????????? You realize the reason segregation was wrong was because it was based on someone's skin color, not the actions they've taken?
      - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
        That's true. However, people were sent to concentration camps for their actions and beliefs, and we all think that's wrong...
        tptacek 10y ago
        You are now literally reprising a joke from Season 1 of Silicon Valley.
        qwertyuiop924 10y ago
        Am I? Huh. Also, does that invalidate my point? I mean, I don't think it does, but I figured I might as well ask...
  - concinds 10y ago
    Do you believe Christian bakeries should be forced to bake cakes for gay customers? You and plenty of people in this thread seem to confuse "behave" and "say". "While Trump's"enemies take him literally not seriously & friends seriously not literally", the wise looks at his acts & acts only. No words." --NNTaleb Ostracizing others for their words is incredibly immature, petty, and vindictive. And ironically, ostracizing is an act, not words, so it does expose your character.
- ebola1717 10y ago
  Thiel donated $1.25 MILLION to the Trump campaign. This isn't holding him accountable for his "beliefs" or even his "speech" - this is holding him accountable for helping to cause this mess we're in.
  - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
    For the third time, that's different from being exiled from civil society.
  - ihsw 10y ago
    He's fixing the mess we're in.
    - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
      I disagree...
- yks 10y ago
  DJT and his associates hint that only a subset of the population have a right to their beliefs, others should keep their mouths shut. That seems like a problem worth going against and it may become acute rather sooner than later.
- fictioncircle 10y ago
  > People have a right to their beliefs, even if their beliefs are stupid. If not, than what kind of country are we? When the person's actions are directly and publicly detrimental to the business interests, the investor/backer/employee is at odds with the rest of the group and yeah at that point its not just a belief but a question of the self-interest of the business being at odds with one of its investor/employee/backers. Let us be honest here, Thiel is also backing a man that has no trouble firing people who aren't Yesmen. If that is the sort of standard he wants applied to other people, it should apply to him as well. There comes up a point when the pile of problems extends simply beyond belief but realized action in the real world that directly impacts other people. It is at that point, action is always taken in any situation. Please do not simply call this a 'belief' at this point when Thiel's goals and the related actions are realized in the manner he desired.
  - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
    That's different from saying he should be exiled from civil society.
- cobralibre 10y ago
  > People have a right to their beliefs, even if their beliefs are stupid. If not, than what kind of country are we? Politics is a process of conflict and negotiation between varied, competing interests. In a liberal democracy, "people have a right to their beliefs" is the starting point for that process, not the endpoint.
  - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
    Yes, but it's a starting point we shouldn't loose sight of.
iaw 10y ago
> YC voted Thiel off the island The hypocrisy of being anti-Trump but accepting Thiel is all over the valley.
apsec112 10y ago
How many degrees of separation from Trump do you think people should go? "It goes without saying that if the people of Group X are staring at you demandingly, waiting for you to hate the right enemies with the right intensity, and ready to castigate you if you fail to castigate loudly enough, you may be hanging around the wrong group." - http://lesswrong.com/lw/42/tolerate_tolerance/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/42/tolerate_tolerance/
- gyardley 10y ago
  Just the one will suffice for Thiel. This is the guy, after all, who spent his time making "you can't take him literally" arguments about the same policies Trump is pushing forward in his very first week.
- smacktoward 10y ago
  Thiel is not some distant nodding acquaintance of Trump's. He is a close advisor and Trump's lead point of contact with the tech community. So how many degrees of separation? Let's start with "more than one, please" and go from there.
  - puzzle 10y ago
    Yeah, where IS Thiel?
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
SirensOfTitan 10y ago
> Anyone in a position of power who took a look at Trump and didn't recoil with disgust needs to be exiled from civil society. And this well represents the leftist-elitistic-rhetoric that drove so many to vote for Trump (HRC's "deplorables" comment). Five year olds say "I told you so," adults find reasonable pathways forward in difficult situations. People voted for and supported Trump for a variety of reasons, let's not generalize them all into one block like his administration is doing to Muslims.
- geofft 10y ago
  Five-year-olds don't commit genocide. Five-year-olds don't become tyrants. Five-year-olds don't deport people. Five-year-olds might say "I told you so," but they have a far better track record at the things that matter than adults. Maybe we should take a lesson from them.
  - SirensOfTitan 10y ago
    I find your comment a bit bizarre. You ignored the point of my entire comment, instead deciding to focus on a meaningless portion of my metaphor and apply it to an equally meaningless point about how humans ought to be. This comment becomes even more bizarre whenever my comment was about acceptance of everyone, including Trump supporters, which is in line with your tao of five year old here.
    - geofft 10y ago
      Five-year-olds don't feel compelled to accept everyone. They love everyone, yes, but when someone hurts them, they cry and fight back, they don't say "Hm, how can I work together with this person like an adult." The inclination to treat unreasonable people as if they're reasonable is a major and easily exploited failure of adulthood. Plenty of Trump supporters are reasonable. Peter Thiel is not. Every five-year-old knows a dozen stories about a good king with an evil counselor, and how the king would have been better off getting rid of the counselor.
- jowiar 10y ago
keithwhor 10y ago
I appreciate this post by Sam, it means a lot. I think your sentiments are sound, as well. I think what's more important is clarifying Peter Thiel's beliefs and how he's going to make things better moving forward. The line in the sand that Sam and YC should seriously consider is when do the political freedoms of their partners supersede the actual freedoms of their founders? The way I feel, as a founder, is slightly taken advantage of. I'm not directly part of the YC network, but there's an implicit social contract in Silicon Valley --- help others, and it will come back to you. YC's value is in fighting for founders. When a partner actively supports a vehemently anti-immigrant candidate and their political freedoms are defended at the potential expense of founders' livelihoods, it's confusing. It sends a message to founders that they're simply cattle - you can afford to lose a few along the way because you have the greenest pasture and you're confident they'll overlook the slaughterhouse. I like YC. I love the founders and partners I've met that are part of the network and have a great deal of respect for everyone involved. There's some murky water here, though, and additional clarity would alleviate the anxieties of, I think, a lot of talented entrepreneurs, both aspiring and successful.
mythrwy 10y ago
"Anyone in a position of power who took a look at Trump and didn't recoil with disgust needs to be exiled from civil society" We don't work like that. If we do the next one exiled will be you.
- jowiar 10y ago
  For some reason I'm thinking of a parable that goes like: "First they came for the Nazis"... Oh wait, maybe not. Because when we finally got around to fighting Nazis it was good fucking riddance.
  - angry-hacker 10y ago
    And Obama was the biggest nazi of all times, he created a spy machine that would have made gestapo jealous. Where was the outcry in the last 8 years. Some of you bigots voted for him twice!
    - deleted 10y ago
      [deleted]
  - varjag 10y ago
    https://twitter.com/varjag/status/823497635080376320 https://twitter.com/varjag/status/823497635080376320

by jowiar 10y ago

qwertyuiop924 10y ago

>Anyone in a position of power who took a look at Trump and didn't recoil with disgust needs to be exiled from civil society. I don't like Trump, but fighting him isn't worth going against the very principles we fight for. People have a right to their beliefs, even if their beliefs are stupid. If not, than what kind of country are we?

MusaTheRedGuard 10y ago
People have a right to their beliefs, and those beliefs sometimes have strong social consequences.
jowiar 10y ago
People have a right to choose who they (do or don't) associate with. And people have a right to judge those based on who they deem worthy of association. Thiel can believe what he wants. He can say what he wants. Mostly it shows he's a cowardly little narcissistic shit. And it's damn telling when folks still keep him around.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
kasey_junk 10y ago
I'm not sure of any nominal principle that says we have to do business with, work for or to invite to things people who behave abhorrently. That Thiel can get a table at a restaurant in SV proves all the talk about changing the world tech leaders do is so much nonsense.
- ryanx435 10y ago
  It's crazy that you can't see how hypocritical you are: you ate literally saying that restaurants shouls ban thiel because he supports a person who bans people. Look in a mirror once in a while, buddy
  - kasey_junk 10y ago
    There is a significant difference between voluntary association and compulsory exclusion through use of force. It's not even partially hypocritical to claim one is ok & the other isn't.
  - ebola1717 10y ago
    Are you really comparing divestment to segregation????????????? You realize the reason segregation was wrong was because it was based on someone's skin color, not the actions they've taken?
    - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
      That's true. However, people were sent to concentration camps for their actions and beliefs, and we all think that's wrong...
      - tptacek 10y ago
        You are now literally reprising a joke from Season 1 of Silicon Valley.
        qwertyuiop924 10y ago
        Am I? Huh. Also, does that invalidate my point? I mean, I don't think it does, but I figured I might as well ask...
- concinds 10y ago
  Do you believe Christian bakeries should be forced to bake cakes for gay customers? You and plenty of people in this thread seem to confuse "behave" and "say". "While Trump's"enemies take him literally not seriously & friends seriously not literally", the wise looks at his acts & acts only. No words." --NNTaleb Ostracizing others for their words is incredibly immature, petty, and vindictive. And ironically, ostracizing is an act, not words, so it does expose your character.
ebola1717 10y ago
Thiel donated $1.25 MILLION to the Trump campaign. This isn't holding him accountable for his "beliefs" or even his "speech" - this is holding him accountable for helping to cause this mess we're in.
- qwertyuiop924 10y ago
  For the third time, that's different from being exiled from civil society.
- ihsw 10y ago
  He's fixing the mess we're in.
  - qwertyuiop924 10y ago
    I disagree...
yks 10y ago
DJT and his associates hint that only a subset of the population have a right to their beliefs, others should keep their mouths shut. That seems like a problem worth going against and it may become acute rather sooner than later.
fictioncircle 10y ago
> People have a right to their beliefs, even if their beliefs are stupid. If not, than what kind of country are we? When the person's actions are directly and publicly detrimental to the business interests, the investor/backer/employee is at odds with the rest of the group and yeah at that point its not just a belief but a question of the self-interest of the business being at odds with one of its investor/employee/backers. Let us be honest here, Thiel is also backing a man that has no trouble firing people who aren't Yesmen. If that is the sort of standard he wants applied to other people, it should apply to him as well. There comes up a point when the pile of problems extends simply beyond belief but realized action in the real world that directly impacts other people. It is at that point, action is always taken in any situation. Please do not simply call this a 'belief' at this point when Thiel's goals and the related actions are realized in the manner he desired.
- qwertyuiop924 10y ago
  That's different from saying he should be exiled from civil society.
cobralibre 10y ago
> People have a right to their beliefs, even if their beliefs are stupid. If not, than what kind of country are we? Politics is a process of conflict and negotiation between varied, competing interests. In a liberal democracy, "people have a right to their beliefs" is the starting point for that process, not the endpoint.
- qwertyuiop924 10y ago
  Yes, but it's a starting point we shouldn't loose sight of.

iaw 10y ago

> YC voted Thiel off the island The hypocrisy of being anti-Trump but accepting Thiel is all over the valley.

apsec112 10y ago

How many degrees of separation from Trump do you think people should go? "It goes without saying that if the people of Group X are staring at you demandingly, waiting for you to hate the right enemies with the right intensity, and ready to castigate you if you fail to castigate loudly enough, you may be hanging around the wrong group." - http://lesswrong.com/lw/42/tolerate_tolerance/ http://lesswrong.com/lw/42/tolerate_tolerance/

gyardley 10y ago
Just the one will suffice for Thiel. This is the guy, after all, who spent his time making "you can't take him literally" arguments about the same policies Trump is pushing forward in his very first week.
smacktoward 10y ago
Thiel is not some distant nodding acquaintance of Trump's. He is a close advisor and Trump's lead point of contact with the tech community. So how many degrees of separation? Let's start with "more than one, please" and go from there.
- puzzle 10y ago
  Yeah, where IS Thiel?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

SirensOfTitan 10y ago

> Anyone in a position of power who took a look at Trump and didn't recoil with disgust needs to be exiled from civil society. And this well represents the leftist-elitistic-rhetoric that drove so many to vote for Trump (HRC's "deplorables" comment). Five year olds say "I told you so," adults find reasonable pathways forward in difficult situations. People voted for and supported Trump for a variety of reasons, let's not generalize them all into one block like his administration is doing to Muslims.

geofft 10y ago
Five-year-olds don't commit genocide. Five-year-olds don't become tyrants. Five-year-olds don't deport people. Five-year-olds might say "I told you so," but they have a far better track record at the things that matter than adults. Maybe we should take a lesson from them.
- SirensOfTitan 10y ago
  I find your comment a bit bizarre. You ignored the point of my entire comment, instead deciding to focus on a meaningless portion of my metaphor and apply it to an equally meaningless point about how humans ought to be. This comment becomes even more bizarre whenever my comment was about acceptance of everyone, including Trump supporters, which is in line with your tao of five year old here.
  - geofft 10y ago
    Five-year-olds don't feel compelled to accept everyone. They love everyone, yes, but when someone hurts them, they cry and fight back, they don't say "Hm, how can I work together with this person like an adult." The inclination to treat unreasonable people as if they're reasonable is a major and easily exploited failure of adulthood. Plenty of Trump supporters are reasonable. Peter Thiel is not. Every five-year-old knows a dozen stories about a good king with an evil counselor, and how the king would have been better off getting rid of the counselor.
jowiar 10y ago

keithwhor 10y ago

I appreciate this post by Sam, it means a lot. I think your sentiments are sound, as well. I think what's more important is clarifying Peter Thiel's beliefs and how he's going to make things better moving forward. The line in the sand that Sam and YC should seriously consider is when do the political freedoms of their partners supersede the actual freedoms of their founders? The way I feel, as a founder, is slightly taken advantage of. I'm not directly part of the YC network, but there's an implicit social contract in Silicon Valley --- help others, and it will come back to you. YC's value is in fighting for founders. When a partner actively supports a vehemently anti-immigrant candidate and their political freedoms are defended at the potential expense of founders' livelihoods, it's confusing. It sends a message to founders that they're simply cattle - you can afford to lose a few along the way because you have the greenest pasture and you're confident they'll overlook the slaughterhouse. I like YC. I love the founders and partners I've met that are part of the network and have a great deal of respect for everyone involved. There's some murky water here, though, and additional clarity would alleviate the anxieties of, I think, a lot of talented entrepreneurs, both aspiring and successful.

mythrwy 10y ago

"Anyone in a position of power who took a look at Trump and didn't recoil with disgust needs to be exiled from civil society" We don't work like that. If we do the next one exiled will be you.

jowiar 10y ago
For some reason I'm thinking of a parable that goes like: "First they came for the Nazis"... Oh wait, maybe not. Because when we finally got around to fighting Nazis it was good fucking riddance.
- angry-hacker 10y ago
  And Obama was the biggest nazi of all times, he created a spy machine that would have made gestapo jealous. Where was the outcry in the last 8 years. Some of you bigots voted for him twice!
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
- varjag 10y ago
  https://twitter.com/varjag/status/823497635080376320 https://twitter.com/varjag/status/823497635080376320