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jasode 10y ago

>Why would rent be included, by the way? Because it's a _package_ that includes multiple benefits and not just a single reimbursement of a "moving van receipt and that's all you get." A good relocation package from a major corporation will include many expenses besides the cost of the moving van. This was my relocation package: + airfare for 2 trips for house hunting + lease cancelling fees (which was about $1800 since I broke my lease 3 months early to take the new job) + professional packers to come in a box everything up (this is very helpful as you don't have to lift a finger. E.g. They will take all dishes from the cupboards and silverware from the drawers, wrap everything in paper, and box everything up with a label.) + the car was also packed into a truck and shipped + the moving truck itself + professional crew to unpack everything at the destination + all hotels and meals while traveling during the move + repairs to furniture if anything was broken That was my package for an engineer. The relocation package for managers such as directors got a few more things... like 3 trips for house hunting instead of 2 and the purchase of the old home if the real estate agent couldn't sell it in time, etc. If it's CxO level executives (CEO, senior vice presidents, etc), the relocation package will often be negotiated on a case-by-case basis to include more reimbursements. The total came out to about $26k. In a quirk of USA tax law, relocation expenses are counted as additional income but the company was generous to "gross up" extra income on top of the relocation reimbursement to cover the extra tax payment. The amount of money spent on employee relocation may seem excessive but the rationale is that they want the new employee to be immediately productive on the new job instead him wasting time and worrying about how to round up uncles and siblings to help pack and move. Therefore, you provide as much of a "white glove" moving experience as reasonably possible. That was my relocation experience in 1998. It would be interesting if a relocated employee from Google/Facebook/etc can talk about what today's packages from Silicon Valley companies look like.

BinaryIdiot 10y ago

> Since you have a daughter, you need to figure out if you want to live in a cheaper area, far away from your work with a long commute, and send her to private school, or live closer to work, and pay an exorbitant amount, and probably still pay for private school. In SF itself most public schools are lowly rated. But many areas, especially MOST of the East Bay, public schools are very highly rated. Unless the OP moves into SF I don't think private school is necessary at all. Just make sure to check the ratings before moving into an area. > I suggest paying the exorbitant rent for 6 months or a year, in a place close to work so that you familiarize yourself with the area, and then start the search to buy a place. This is good advice and what we ultimately ended up doing. It's crazy expensive but now we know where we want to live, how much to expect things, etc. Our weekend trip out here to pick out a house was just no where near enough time to buy or figure out the area for renting. > Things like multiple airfares and real estate broker fees sound like you have a sense of entitlement. Those shouldn't be covered in my opinion, those are the cost of leaving your home. Relocation is meant to cover the cost of leaving your home. Many friends I've talked to had company cover air fair and sometimes real estate broker fees. I know a company I went with did. I think it's a bit much saying OP has a sense of entitlement; OP seems to not know what to expect and simply asked a question and discussed the real logistics behind the move. When you search online many places offer to cover that and many do not.

pfarnsworth 10y ago
There are pockets of good school districts in the Peninsula, but any one of them have prices of > $1.5M for 3br2ba and ~1500 sqft. I can't speak for the East Bay, though, but that increases the commute tremendously. Much like the CAP theorem, you can only optimize for two of: good schools, good commute, good house prices. I said it sounded like he had a sense of entitlement, I actually meant from the point of view of the company. I mean it sounds like he also wants free meals included, and Wifi on the plane as well. $30k I think is pretty generous, all things considered, and at some point, it won't make sense to move to the Bay Area. Does he really expect a $100k relocation package? I hate to say it but he's only a dev manager. Personally I don't think unless his wife is an engineer or another high-wage career, that they shouldn't move. Their quality of life will suffer. Anything less than $300k combined salary is tough with kids, rent, commute, etc.
- BinaryIdiot 10y ago
  > I can't speak for the East Bay, though, but that increases the commute tremendously. Much like the CAP theorem, you can only optimize for two of: good schools, good commute, good house prices Tremendously seems overstating it. Many in California are used to driving very long distances to work but you can get from even beyond where the BART line ends in Easy Bay to SF in an hour even with bad traffic. The trains in the bay area are a great way to minimize commuting to and from the city. Good house prices is too subjective. In some general sense sure but I don't think CAP is a good analogy here. > I said it sounded like he had a sense of entitlement, I actually meant from the point of view of the company. I mean it sounds like he also wants free meals included, and Wifi on the plane as well. I didn't get anything like that AT ALL from the OP's post. This sounds more like a strawman than anything else. > I hate to say it but he's only a dev manager. Personally I don't think unless his wife is an engineer or another high-wage career, that they shouldn't move. Their quality of life will suffer. Anything less than $300k combined salary is tough with kids, rent, commute, etc. This...is wildly off topic and pretty terrible advice. You don't really know anything about OP other than they wanted to know what other people's relocation packages were so they can compare and get an idea as to how generous, or not, this company's offering is. Yes the bay area is expensive but less than $300k a year isn't "tough" unless you're trying to live in a million dollar home and you're burning through money. You seem to have very unrealistic expectations. Personally, I make considerably less than $300k a year with two kids. We rent a large house and my kids go to highly rated public schools. It's expensive, yes, but I don't think I would call it "tough". In fact I see my family far, far more than I did when I worked on the east coast. My point being: everyone's situation is different and I think your perspective is a bit too narrow to be giving general, unsolicited advice.
  - pfarnsworth 10y ago
    I guess we will agree to disagree. I stand 100% by my opinion/advice. I have many current and ex-coworkers and friends who suffer through a long commute, a shitty neighborhood, etc, even though they have great jobs. They are critically unhappy because they should be able to afford a home and live in a good neighborhood but they can't. If you want a reasonable commute (less than 1hr) (ie. South Bay, Peninsula, SF, etc) close to great companies, live in a safe area, with good schools, then earning anything less than $300k combined makes it tough. You can't even afford the mortgage payment on an average house in those areas at $150k/yr, unless you have a massive down payment, and God help you if one of you or your spouse loses their job.

BinaryIdiot 10y ago
> If you want a reasonable commute (less than 1hr) (ie. South Bay, Peninsula, SF, etc) close to great companies, live in a safe area, with good schools, then earning anything less than $300k combined makes it tough. You can't even afford the mortgage payment on an average house in those areas at $150k/yr, unless you have a massive down payment, and God help you if one of you or your spouse loses their job. Reasonable commute is relative. For example if you live as far east as the end of Pleasanton / Dublin in East Bay you can have a roughly 45 minute commute to the financial and nearby districts in SF. Point being you can hit your most or all of your marks and not need $300k a year. In fact that's a difficult amount for the average or even above average person to make and it's not always possible to have spouses working. Let people judge what they can and cannot afford to do. General statements like saying making under $300k is going to be tough isn't constructive and while it may be true in some instances it's certainly not true for all.
- pfarnsworth 10y ago
  Of course it's constructive. People making $75k/yr with a family and a home in North Carolina and then getting an offer for $150k/yr in the Bay Area might think "I'm going to be rich!" when in fact they're probably going to be worse off. People need to understand this, it's a very, very expensive area to live in. I ask EVERYONE and they agree that $300k/yr is about the threshold where life stops getting "tough". You may disagree, but as I said, we will agree to disagree.
  - BinaryIdiot 10y ago
    > People making $75k/yr with a family and a home in North Carolina and then getting an offer for $150k/yr in the Bay Area might think "I'm going to be rich!" when in fact they're probably going to be worse off. People need to understand this, it's a very, very expensive area to live in. Before people pick up and move their entire lives they typically research the area. Suggesting otherwise is just a way of calling them stupid. If someone tells me they're doing X and want feedback on Y, I'm not going to automatically assume they're being stupid about X. Sounds rude to me. > I ask EVERYONE and they agree that $300k/yr is about the threshold where life stops getting "tough". Sounds like you're in your own bubble. Its always good to seek out alternative views on something instead of just doubling down in your narrow set of anecdotes. If you're only asking your rich friends you're not going to have a good idea on the reality.
    - pfarnsworth 10y ago
      Nah, it's fine.
- closeparen 10y ago
  >For example if you live as far east as the end of Pleasanton / Dublin in East Bay you can have a roughly 45 minute commute to the financial and nearby districts in SF. Only if you live right on top of the station. Since these places have relatively poor local transportation and parking demand at stations far outstrips supply, getting between your apartment and the station will add significant time. Reminder that a normal commute is ~25 minutes. We've just gotten acclimated to extremes here.
  - BinaryIdiot 10y ago
    > Only if you live right on top of the station. Since these places have relatively poor local transportation and parking demand at stations far outstrips supply, getting between your apartment and the station will add significant time. Yeah if you're within biking distance it's pretty awesome and quick. I take a 10-15 minute drive to the station most days. I really wish they did more about the parking though; even people out in Tracy hit that BART station so parking is full, minus permit spots, by 7:30am or sooner.