4 ms·

> They they take away my TreeStyle Tabs and a few other Extensions I dont care how much faster it is, FF will be removed my all my systems This is what I don't

by yoasif_ 10y ago

> They they take away my TreeStyle Tabs and a few other Extensions I dont care how much faster it is, FF will be removed my all my systems This is what I don't understand. What would you use instead? Do you see another vendor attempting to recreate XUL-like extensions? Built in functionality like the stuff in Vivaldi doesn't count, since those aren't extensions.

syshum 10y ago
>>This is what I don't understand. What would you use instead? Does not matter, Likely Vivaldi, or Chrome. I will not reward FF or Mozilla, it may seem petty but I will not continue to use FF after mozilla ignored its users in this manner. From day one Devs, users and the wider community has been telling mozilla we do not want these changes. Clearly they do not want me as a user of their product so I will oblige them and stop using their product I expect to be ignored by a large for-profit corporation like Google, if Mozilla is going to act like google I might as well just move to Chrome.
- yoasif_ 10y ago
  > Clearly they do not want me as a user of their product so I will oblige them and stop using their product Got it, spite. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP0MXJAQhmo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP0MXJAQhmo Chrome never tried to cater to users like you, so you'll reward that browser because they never bothered to try.
  - syshum 10y ago
    >>Chrome never tried to cater to users like you That is right, and that is the point. If you do not understand why or how that makes a difference I likely will be unable to explain it to you. I may not go to chrome, Vivaldi, the new Opera, Some Fork of the good firefox, we are still a little ways away from the the day Mozilla commits Suicide so.... Also I do want to add, my problem is not them removing XUL, my problem is them removing FUNCTIONALITY, if they come up with something else that REPLACES feature for feature XUL fine, if they take everything people are losing and build it in as not an extension that would be fine to, if they Add a option in the Configuration for TreeStyle Tabs with out an extension that would be grand I am not beholden to extensions, I am beholden to the FUNCTIONALITY.
  - abeyer 10y ago
    > Got it, spite. Even if that's true, isn't it a pretty poor reflection on a product if its users dislike its direction so much that they are willing to abandon it in spite?
    - yoasif_ 10y ago
      I don't think so. The product is the binary, which can perform better or worse, or have more or fewer features than the competition. The direction of the product isn't the product itself, and reflects more upon the people who direct the "direction" of the product. This feels more like damage to the brand -- but as usual, I don't know whether the opinion on HN actually translates to the overall population of web users. I mean, the new Macbook Pro is certainly a failure [doesn't go to 32gb ram], and hell wasn't that iPod a total failure [no wireless, less space than a nomad]? (I know, I know, that was Slashdot.)
      - abeyer 10y ago
        I agree, perhaps that's more about the brand than the product per se. But in a market where you have to convince your users to replace the pre-installed browser that more or less works pretty well already with your alternative implementation, it seems like brand perception is a pretty important thing. And while a community like HN might not be accurately representative of users at large, it does tend to have a disproportionately high percentage of "trend-makers" who influence other people's decisions on technical subjects.
        yoasif_ 10y ago
        > But in a market where you have to convince your users to replace the pre-installed browser that more or less works pretty well already with your alternative implementation, it seems like brand perception is a pretty important thing. Yes, but now we're talking about people who (likely) moved to Chrome because it just felt so darned snappy, not because it had great extensions (it didn't) -- or just had Chrome preinstalled. If Firefox is faster, people who are after speed might just move over from Chrome. If the Firefox brand represents "faster than Chrome" rather than "it doesn't do tree style tabs anymore", they might still be okay. If they had Chrome preinstalled and had never used Firefox, they wouldn't miss the extensions, and probably wouldn't care that tree style tabs doesn't exist. > And while a community like HN might not be accurately representative of users at large, it does tend to have a disproportionately high percentage of "trend-makers" who influence other people's decisions on technical subjects. Meh. I think people just use what they want to use. How else do we explain why the Rio Karma didn't destroy the iPod? I mean, it's pretty obvious to me that technical, music loving "trend-makers" required gapless playback. How else do you listen to live albums/mixtapes/DJ mixes? The iPod is "just" an intuitive UI/UX and good branding! It makes you use Musicmatch/iTunes! (Yes, I had a Rio Karma and I later switched my iPod over to Rockbox -- guess how much luck I had "recommending" people to switch to their iPods to Rockbox?)
jhlgkhkhil 10y ago
I don't give a damn if the functionality I want is in extensions or the main product. I give a damn that it exists. If Vivaldi has the features I want and Firefox can't have them I will use Vivaldi.
Illniyar 10y ago
Personally, for me, I'll just stop updating firfox until someone makes treestyletabs again (chrome or firefox, or edge, doesn't matter to me). Security be damned
yellowapple 10y ago
I personally would likely stick to an older version of Firefox until some other browser on the market offers similar functionality. Tree Style Tabs are the one killer feature of the Firefox ecosystem versus other major browsers, at least for my use.

by yoasif_ 10y ago

syshum 10y ago

>>This is what I don't understand. What would you use instead? Does not matter, Likely Vivaldi, or Chrome. I will not reward FF or Mozilla, it may seem petty but I will not continue to use FF after mozilla ignored its users in this manner. From day one Devs, users and the wider community has been telling mozilla we do not want these changes. Clearly they do not want me as a user of their product so I will oblige them and stop using their product I expect to be ignored by a large for-profit corporation like Google, if Mozilla is going to act like google I might as well just move to Chrome.

yoasif_ 10y ago
> Clearly they do not want me as a user of their product so I will oblige them and stop using their product Got it, spite. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP0MXJAQhmo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP0MXJAQhmo Chrome never tried to cater to users like you, so you'll reward that browser because they never bothered to try.
- syshum 10y ago
  >>Chrome never tried to cater to users like you That is right, and that is the point. If you do not understand why or how that makes a difference I likely will be unable to explain it to you. I may not go to chrome, Vivaldi, the new Opera, Some Fork of the good firefox, we are still a little ways away from the the day Mozilla commits Suicide so.... Also I do want to add, my problem is not them removing XUL, my problem is them removing FUNCTIONALITY, if they come up with something else that REPLACES feature for feature XUL fine, if they take everything people are losing and build it in as not an extension that would be fine to, if they Add a option in the Configuration for TreeStyle Tabs with out an extension that would be grand I am not beholden to extensions, I am beholden to the FUNCTIONALITY.
- abeyer 10y ago
  > Got it, spite. Even if that's true, isn't it a pretty poor reflection on a product if its users dislike its direction so much that they are willing to abandon it in spite?
  - yoasif_ 10y ago
    I don't think so. The product is the binary, which can perform better or worse, or have more or fewer features than the competition. The direction of the product isn't the product itself, and reflects more upon the people who direct the "direction" of the product. This feels more like damage to the brand -- but as usual, I don't know whether the opinion on HN actually translates to the overall population of web users. I mean, the new Macbook Pro is certainly a failure [doesn't go to 32gb ram], and hell wasn't that iPod a total failure [no wireless, less space than a nomad]? (I know, I know, that was Slashdot.)
    - abeyer 10y ago
      I agree, perhaps that's more about the brand than the product per se. But in a market where you have to convince your users to replace the pre-installed browser that more or less works pretty well already with your alternative implementation, it seems like brand perception is a pretty important thing. And while a community like HN might not be accurately representative of users at large, it does tend to have a disproportionately high percentage of "trend-makers" who influence other people's decisions on technical subjects.
      - yoasif_ 10y ago
        > But in a market where you have to convince your users to replace the pre-installed browser that more or less works pretty well already with your alternative implementation, it seems like brand perception is a pretty important thing. Yes, but now we're talking about people who (likely) moved to Chrome because it just felt so darned snappy, not because it had great extensions (it didn't) -- or just had Chrome preinstalled. If Firefox is faster, people who are after speed might just move over from Chrome. If the Firefox brand represents "faster than Chrome" rather than "it doesn't do tree style tabs anymore", they might still be okay. If they had Chrome preinstalled and had never used Firefox, they wouldn't miss the extensions, and probably wouldn't care that tree style tabs doesn't exist. > And while a community like HN might not be accurately representative of users at large, it does tend to have a disproportionately high percentage of "trend-makers" who influence other people's decisions on technical subjects. Meh. I think people just use what they want to use. How else do we explain why the Rio Karma didn't destroy the iPod? I mean, it's pretty obvious to me that technical, music loving "trend-makers" required gapless playback. How else do you listen to live albums/mixtapes/DJ mixes? The iPod is "just" an intuitive UI/UX and good branding! It makes you use Musicmatch/iTunes! (Yes, I had a Rio Karma and I later switched my iPod over to Rockbox -- guess how much luck I had "recommending" people to switch to their iPods to Rockbox?)

jhlgkhkhil 10y ago

I don't give a damn if the functionality I want is in extensions or the main product. I give a damn that it exists. If Vivaldi has the features I want and Firefox can't have them I will use Vivaldi.

Illniyar 10y ago

Personally, for me, I'll just stop updating firfox until someone makes treestyletabs again (chrome or firefox, or edge, doesn't matter to me). Security be damned

yellowapple 10y ago

I personally would likely stick to an older version of Firefox until some other browser on the market offers similar functionality. Tree Style Tabs are the one killer feature of the Firefox ecosystem versus other major browsers, at least for my use.