4 ms·

>>Clearly, that has something to do with either security or performance, where Firefox has a perceived lag. This is completely false It has something to do wi

by syshum 10y ago

>>Clearly, that has something to do with either security or performance, where Firefox has a perceived lag. This is completely false It has something to do with MARKETING and the fact the Google is largest marketing company in the world and has the ability to market chrome far far far more effectively than Firefox IE is crap, so Windows users seek a replacement for IE, use to their only option was Firefox. Once Chrome came on the market with a HUGE marketing push people started to migrate It was 80-90% marketing, not technical Even if Firefox is better preforming people are not going to switch as only Technical people give a shit about performance numbers. Edge on windows 10 is starting to eat into Chrome partly because MS is bringing back the IE6 marketing and integration tactics that got them in Anti-trust hot water in the 90's No Firefox, absent Google Discontinuing the chrome Browser, will never break 20% market share again, I do not care how must better it preforms. Mozilla needs to focus on Power Users, and Privacy. They are failing at both with these moves IMO >>you wouldn't want to switch to Chrome, because Firefox was just plain faster? They they take away my TreeStyle Tabs and a few other Extensions I dont care how much faster it is, FF will be removed my all my systems TreeStyle Tabs is the the Main reason I use FF today. I dont understand why browsers have tabs horizontally across the window, it looks stupid and is unusable once you get above 20 or 30 tabs open So you talk about have 100's of tabs open, it is pointless if I do not have TreeStyle or some kind of Vertical Tabs. And no the Stupid Dock style of doing it on Chrome and other WebExtensions based hack is neither desirable or usable

yoasif_ 10y ago
> They they take away my TreeStyle Tabs and a few other Extensions I dont care how much faster it is, FF will be removed my all my systems This is what I don't understand. What would you use instead? Do you see another vendor attempting to recreate XUL-like extensions? Built in functionality like the stuff in Vivaldi doesn't count, since those aren't extensions.
- syshum 10y ago
  >>This is what I don't understand. What would you use instead? Does not matter, Likely Vivaldi, or Chrome. I will not reward FF or Mozilla, it may seem petty but I will not continue to use FF after mozilla ignored its users in this manner. From day one Devs, users and the wider community has been telling mozilla we do not want these changes. Clearly they do not want me as a user of their product so I will oblige them and stop using their product I expect to be ignored by a large for-profit corporation like Google, if Mozilla is going to act like google I might as well just move to Chrome.
  - yoasif_ 10y ago
    > Clearly they do not want me as a user of their product so I will oblige them and stop using their product Got it, spite. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP0MXJAQhmo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP0MXJAQhmo Chrome never tried to cater to users like you, so you'll reward that browser because they never bothered to try.
    - syshum 10y ago
      >>Chrome never tried to cater to users like you That is right, and that is the point. If you do not understand why or how that makes a difference I likely will be unable to explain it to you. I may not go to chrome, Vivaldi, the new Opera, Some Fork of the good firefox, we are still a little ways away from the the day Mozilla commits Suicide so.... Also I do want to add, my problem is not them removing XUL, my problem is them removing FUNCTIONALITY, if they come up with something else that REPLACES feature for feature XUL fine, if they take everything people are losing and build it in as not an extension that would be fine to, if they Add a option in the Configuration for TreeStyle Tabs with out an extension that would be grand I am not beholden to extensions, I am beholden to the FUNCTIONALITY.
    - abeyer 10y ago
      > Got it, spite. Even if that's true, isn't it a pretty poor reflection on a product if its users dislike its direction so much that they are willing to abandon it in spite?
      - yoasif_ 10y ago
        I don't think so. The product is the binary, which can perform better or worse, or have more or fewer features than the competition. The direction of the product isn't the product itself, and reflects more upon the people who direct the "direction" of the product. This feels more like damage to the brand -- but as usual, I don't know whether the opinion on HN actually translates to the overall population of web users. I mean, the new Macbook Pro is certainly a failure [doesn't go to 32gb ram], and hell wasn't that iPod a total failure [no wireless, less space than a nomad]? (I know, I know, that was Slashdot.)
- jhlgkhkhil 10y ago
  I don't give a damn if the functionality I want is in extensions or the main product. I give a damn that it exists. If Vivaldi has the features I want and Firefox can't have them I will use Vivaldi.
- Illniyar 10y ago
  Personally, for me, I'll just stop updating firfox until someone makes treestyletabs again (chrome or firefox, or edge, doesn't matter to me). Security be damned
- yellowapple 10y ago
  I personally would likely stick to an older version of Firefox until some other browser on the market offers similar functionality. Tree Style Tabs are the one killer feature of the Firefox ecosystem versus other major browsers, at least for my use.
OJFord 10y ago
> >>Clearly, that has something to do with either security or performance, where Firefox has a perceived lag. > This is completely false > It has something to do with MARKETING "perceived". Perception can come from marketing.
mdekkers 10y ago
They they take away my TreeStyle Tabs and a few other Extensions I dont care how much faster it is, FF will be removed my all my systems TreeStyle Tabs is the the Main reason I use FF today. I dont understand why browsers have tabs horizontally across the window, it looks stupid and is unusable once you get above 20 or 30 tabs open So you talk about have 100's of tabs open, it is pointless if I do not have TreeStyle or some kind of Vertical Tabs. And no the Stupid Dock style of doing it on Chrome and other WebExtensions based hack is neither desirable or usable I came to say pretty much the same thing.
- baby 10y ago
  Same
Nadya 10y ago
>TreeStyle Tabs is the the Main reason I use FF today. I dont understand why browsers have tabs horizontally across the window, it looks stupid and is unusable once you get above 20 or 30 tabs open So you talk about have 100's of tabs open, it is pointless if I do not have TreeStyle or some kind of Vertical Tabs. I don't see why people like vertical/tree-style tabs. To me it's always seemed extremely messy. Tab groups, searching, and a scrollable context menu at any mouse position, to me, is a much smoother and faster workflow. Ctrl+Shift+E opens up tab groups and I can begin typing to search. When both my hands are already on the keyboard, this is most convenient [0]. When my hand is already on my mouse, however, I can right click and scroll to open up a context menu of all tabs within my Tab Group [1]. I also have a mouse gesture for opening Tab Groups so that I can switch groups if necessary. I frequently have 300+ tabs open, organized into tab groups of 20-40 related tabs (mostly research/tutorials/google docs for various MMOs I play) I was actually frozen at FF44 until the Tab Groups add-on functioned properly. And I'll likely be frozen at FF57 [2]. Sadly, my way of tab management never seemed to catch on and the add-ons that enable it soon won't be supported. For those interested in my tab management, I use Tab Groups and Fire Gestures (almost entirely for the '[Popup] List All Tabs' feature). I bind List All Tabs to both scrolling up and scrolling down, as scrolling up is originally Tab History. [0] https://my.mixtape.moe/tukpwo.webm https://my.mixtape.moe/tukpwo.webm [1] https://my.mixtape.moe/gqlawp.webm https://my.mixtape.moe/gqlawp.webm [2] http://fasezero.com/lastnotice.html http://fasezero.com/lastnotice.html

by syshum 10y ago

yoasif_ 10y ago

> They they take away my TreeStyle Tabs and a few other Extensions I dont care how much faster it is, FF will be removed my all my systems This is what I don't understand. What would you use instead? Do you see another vendor attempting to recreate XUL-like extensions? Built in functionality like the stuff in Vivaldi doesn't count, since those aren't extensions.

syshum 10y ago
>>This is what I don't understand. What would you use instead? Does not matter, Likely Vivaldi, or Chrome. I will not reward FF or Mozilla, it may seem petty but I will not continue to use FF after mozilla ignored its users in this manner. From day one Devs, users and the wider community has been telling mozilla we do not want these changes. Clearly they do not want me as a user of their product so I will oblige them and stop using their product I expect to be ignored by a large for-profit corporation like Google, if Mozilla is going to act like google I might as well just move to Chrome.
- yoasif_ 10y ago
  > Clearly they do not want me as a user of their product so I will oblige them and stop using their product Got it, spite. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP0MXJAQhmo https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fP0MXJAQhmo Chrome never tried to cater to users like you, so you'll reward that browser because they never bothered to try.
  - syshum 10y ago
    >>Chrome never tried to cater to users like you That is right, and that is the point. If you do not understand why or how that makes a difference I likely will be unable to explain it to you. I may not go to chrome, Vivaldi, the new Opera, Some Fork of the good firefox, we are still a little ways away from the the day Mozilla commits Suicide so.... Also I do want to add, my problem is not them removing XUL, my problem is them removing FUNCTIONALITY, if they come up with something else that REPLACES feature for feature XUL fine, if they take everything people are losing and build it in as not an extension that would be fine to, if they Add a option in the Configuration for TreeStyle Tabs with out an extension that would be grand I am not beholden to extensions, I am beholden to the FUNCTIONALITY.
  - abeyer 10y ago
    > Got it, spite. Even if that's true, isn't it a pretty poor reflection on a product if its users dislike its direction so much that they are willing to abandon it in spite?
    - yoasif_ 10y ago
      I don't think so. The product is the binary, which can perform better or worse, or have more or fewer features than the competition. The direction of the product isn't the product itself, and reflects more upon the people who direct the "direction" of the product. This feels more like damage to the brand -- but as usual, I don't know whether the opinion on HN actually translates to the overall population of web users. I mean, the new Macbook Pro is certainly a failure [doesn't go to 32gb ram], and hell wasn't that iPod a total failure [no wireless, less space than a nomad]? (I know, I know, that was Slashdot.)
jhlgkhkhil 10y ago
I don't give a damn if the functionality I want is in extensions or the main product. I give a damn that it exists. If Vivaldi has the features I want and Firefox can't have them I will use Vivaldi.
Illniyar 10y ago
Personally, for me, I'll just stop updating firfox until someone makes treestyletabs again (chrome or firefox, or edge, doesn't matter to me). Security be damned
yellowapple 10y ago
I personally would likely stick to an older version of Firefox until some other browser on the market offers similar functionality. Tree Style Tabs are the one killer feature of the Firefox ecosystem versus other major browsers, at least for my use.

OJFord 10y ago

> >>Clearly, that has something to do with either security or performance, where Firefox has a perceived lag. > This is completely false > It has something to do with MARKETING "perceived". Perception can come from marketing.

mdekkers 10y ago

They they take away my TreeStyle Tabs and a few other Extensions I dont care how much faster it is, FF will be removed my all my systems TreeStyle Tabs is the the Main reason I use FF today. I dont understand why browsers have tabs horizontally across the window, it looks stupid and is unusable once you get above 20 or 30 tabs open So you talk about have 100's of tabs open, it is pointless if I do not have TreeStyle or some kind of Vertical Tabs. And no the Stupid Dock style of doing it on Chrome and other WebExtensions based hack is neither desirable or usable I came to say pretty much the same thing.

baby 10y ago
Same

Nadya 10y ago

>TreeStyle Tabs is the the Main reason I use FF today. I dont understand why browsers have tabs horizontally across the window, it looks stupid and is unusable once you get above 20 or 30 tabs open So you talk about have 100's of tabs open, it is pointless if I do not have TreeStyle or some kind of Vertical Tabs. I don't see why people like vertical/tree-style tabs. To me it's always seemed extremely messy. Tab groups, searching, and a scrollable context menu at any mouse position, to me, is a much smoother and faster workflow. Ctrl+Shift+E opens up tab groups and I can begin typing to search. When both my hands are already on the keyboard, this is most convenient [0]. When my hand is already on my mouse, however, I can right click and scroll to open up a context menu of all tabs within my Tab Group [1]. I also have a mouse gesture for opening Tab Groups so that I can switch groups if necessary. I frequently have 300+ tabs open, organized into tab groups of 20-40 related tabs (mostly research/tutorials/google docs for various MMOs I play) I was actually frozen at FF44 until the Tab Groups add-on functioned properly. And I'll likely be frozen at FF57 [2]. Sadly, my way of tab management never seemed to catch on and the add-ons that enable it soon won't be supported. For those interested in my tab management, I use Tab Groups and Fire Gestures (almost entirely for the '[Popup] List All Tabs' feature). I bind List All Tabs to both scrolling up and scrolling down, as scrolling up is originally Tab History. [0] https://my.mixtape.moe/tukpwo.webm https://my.mixtape.moe/tukpwo.webm [1] https://my.mixtape.moe/gqlawp.webm https://my.mixtape.moe/gqlawp.webm [2] http://fasezero.com/lastnotice.html http://fasezero.com/lastnotice.html