5 ms·

This minus the pro bono. If you are indeed a key dev then you can offer to continue some paid side work short term to get them through the transition pains. I

This minus the pro bono. If you are indeed a key dev then you can offer to continue some paid side work short term to get them through the transition pains. It is only fair that you get paid and it also gives the old employer an incentive to phase you out more quickly due to costs rather than use you for a crutch as long as possible.

ptero 10y ago
To me, doing this pro bono is the way to go. This makes it crystal clear to your old employer that you are doing it as a favor, not obligation or commitment. Then you can also pull out at any time. You are just being nice (which tends to pay benefits eventually in some unpredictable ways), not trying to earn some extra cash. In fact I doubt many companies would take you up on that offer at all. IMO consulting for your old employer might upset your new employer ("whom would he support if both of us need him at the same time?). Taking a few calls pro bono, even at work time (which is not pro bono now, your new employer is effectively paying for it) is usually just fine with new employer. This shows you as a responsible person that is unlikely to burn bridges changing jobs, valuable member of the team (your old employer values you enough to ask for your advice, etc.). My 2c.
- cmdrfred 10y ago
  >doing it as a favor In my experience doing something "as a favor" is the fastest way to get the person you are trying to help to act in a entitled manner.
- HeyLaughingBoy 10y ago
  And to me, doing this pro bono shows a lack of regard for the value of your own time. They paid you to do the job before, why do it for free now? I've been in this situation fairly recently. I pointed out to my old employer that I was "being nice" by consulting for them since my new job was keeping me pretty busy, so I told them the max number of hours I was willing to commit to, and how much I would charge. Come up with a reasonable cost of your time (hint: not below $100/hour) and find out beforehand how they want to be billed. It's business. A business exists to make money, not to be your friend.
  - infinite8s 10y ago
    Do most people's new employees allow this? Almost everywhere I've worked said that I was not allowed to take on other paid work while being an employee (granted my experience has just been big financial companies in NYC). But I'd imagine places like Google/FB would also frown on people doing paid consulting for previous employers.
    - pbhjpbhj 10y ago
      You might also ask is it legal for businesses to demand you don't "moonlight", it's like a non-compete in a way. Most people aren't paid enough that they're beholden to a company in their time off. One would probably need to consult a specialist employment lawyer for the pertinent jurisdiction.
      - infinite8s 10y ago
        I think in that regard New York State is much more employer friendly than California (ie claims on things you do in your own time belonging to your employer seem to be much more likely to be enforced if included in your employment agreement).
    - HeyLaughingBoy 10y ago
      I guess that depends on whether or not you were planning on asking permission.
  - ptero 10y ago
    My mental model for this was "help an old lady push the car out of the ditch", not "I am selling you a service". My reward was a happy conscience and maybe a misguided belief that if I wanted to go back (tables and fortunes turn, managements change, etc.) a 5-min phone call would be all it takes.
- bigtunacan 10y ago
  Have you personally done this? I have been in this exact situation multiple times. The first time it happened I offered to do it as a favor since I felt an obligation to my old team and didn't want to burn any bridges. Six months later when I was still getting calls I felt trapped. So then I finally told them that it had been six months and I could no longer help them without getting paid. Suddenly they managed to get things done on their own. We are still on good terms; I even meet for lunch or drinks occasionally with those same colleagues 12 years later. Since then, I always offer to help for a fee while they transition. None have ever been upset by that approach since they are professionals; something that in hindsight I wasn't when I offered to do it as a favor all those years ago. Some employers have taken me up on this offer some have not. That is the motivation though. I don't WANT them to take me up on the offer; I've just quit so I want to move on. I also don't want to burn bridges or leave anyone in the lurch.
  - ptero 10y ago
    I personally did this last time I changed jobs. I got maybe 5 calls of no more than 1 hour each and spent a few hours in SSH session (restoring a service I wrote for myself but put on the intranet which I thought no one but myself was using; when my workstation was wiped apparently enough people wanted it back). I got a "we owe you a beer" after that which I never claimed as I am halfway across the US now and that was it. As I took no money I felt very comfortable choosing dates and times that were convenient for me. They would email me and I would set up an hour for a phone call or an ssh session within the next few days. If I took any money I would feel pressure to respond quicker. Anyhow, this worked for me, but obviously YMMV.
    - bigtunacan 10y ago
      If this had been my experience, then I probably would have been fine with not charging. To elaborate on my personal experiences. It was never about making money, but always about smoothly severing ties. In my first experience both I and my new employer were frustrated as I was receiving calls every week for more than six months. The old company and the new company were different, but they had close ties which is the only reason my new job tolerated that I was spending hours they were paying for on someone else for free. When it was still going on for six months I was advised by my current boss to advise them I would have to charge to continue to support them, and see what happened. At that point they said they understood and would discuss it with their superiours. It turned out that with money as a motivating factor they finally were able to get by without me. With another employer I knew that a standard two week notice for them wasn't long enough as I was their lone sys admin, but anything longer would not have been ok for my new employer who had just lost a key employee on a major project and needed someone that could step in ASAP and hit the ground running. In that case I offerered that I could help out in the evenings or weekends for a reasonable hourly rate that was still above my normal hourly rate. They were glad to have that offer there and said they would only call me if they absolutely had to. I never heard a word from them until I got a call that their Exchange server (which I had repeatedly advised them for more than a year needed to be replaced, but they were too cheap to do so) had crashed and they urgently needed help. I came in on a Friday night after getting off work and then I worked straight through the weekend to setup a new server and recover all of the lost data. They were more than glad to pay. With another employer I was the leadon a mission criticial financial system I gave them a longer than usual notice when I was leaving to give them extra time to prepare for my departure. Then I spent my last month doing nothing but trying to make sure everyone knew what was needed before I left. I gave them the same option, for a fee they were welcome to call me whenever they needed. Almost six months went by and I didn't hear from them, then I got a call when they realized no one knew how to handle their end of year cutover. I walked them through it in an hour long call. They were very happy to have the help and would have paid; I told them not to worry about it since it was only an hour and they hadn't been pestering me in the past, but that if I got a call next year about the same issue I would have to bill them for it. No bridges were burned there; they were happy and occassionally I have run in to some of the higher ups and they always tell me how they would love for me to come back if I ever decide I need a change.
corobo 10y ago
Yeah whether you're leaving or not this is still business, not a charity. Charge a healthy consultancy fee (hint: it's more than your ex-wage cause you need to cover taxes, your self-employed admin costs, and motivation fees). If they need you enough they'll pay it and if they don't then you're away guilt-free.

ptero 10y ago

To me, doing this pro bono is the way to go. This makes it crystal clear to your old employer that you are doing it as a favor, not obligation or commitment. Then you can also pull out at any time. You are just being nice (which tends to pay benefits eventually in some unpredictable ways), not trying to earn some extra cash. In fact I doubt many companies would take you up on that offer at all. IMO consulting for your old employer might upset your new employer ("whom would he support if both of us need him at the same time?). Taking a few calls pro bono, even at work time (which is not pro bono now, your new employer is effectively paying for it) is usually just fine with new employer. This shows you as a responsible person that is unlikely to burn bridges changing jobs, valuable member of the team (your old employer values you enough to ask for your advice, etc.). My 2c.

cmdrfred 10y ago
>doing it as a favor In my experience doing something "as a favor" is the fastest way to get the person you are trying to help to act in a entitled manner.
HeyLaughingBoy 10y ago
And to me, doing this pro bono shows a lack of regard for the value of your own time. They paid you to do the job before, why do it for free now? I've been in this situation fairly recently. I pointed out to my old employer that I was "being nice" by consulting for them since my new job was keeping me pretty busy, so I told them the max number of hours I was willing to commit to, and how much I would charge. Come up with a reasonable cost of your time (hint: not below $100/hour) and find out beforehand how they want to be billed. It's business. A business exists to make money, not to be your friend.
- infinite8s 10y ago
  Do most people's new employees allow this? Almost everywhere I've worked said that I was not allowed to take on other paid work while being an employee (granted my experience has just been big financial companies in NYC). But I'd imagine places like Google/FB would also frown on people doing paid consulting for previous employers.
  - pbhjpbhj 10y ago
    You might also ask is it legal for businesses to demand you don't "moonlight", it's like a non-compete in a way. Most people aren't paid enough that they're beholden to a company in their time off. One would probably need to consult a specialist employment lawyer for the pertinent jurisdiction.
    - infinite8s 10y ago
      I think in that regard New York State is much more employer friendly than California (ie claims on things you do in your own time belonging to your employer seem to be much more likely to be enforced if included in your employment agreement).
  - HeyLaughingBoy 10y ago
    I guess that depends on whether or not you were planning on asking permission.
- ptero 10y ago
  My mental model for this was "help an old lady push the car out of the ditch", not "I am selling you a service". My reward was a happy conscience and maybe a misguided belief that if I wanted to go back (tables and fortunes turn, managements change, etc.) a 5-min phone call would be all it takes.
bigtunacan 10y ago
Have you personally done this? I have been in this exact situation multiple times. The first time it happened I offered to do it as a favor since I felt an obligation to my old team and didn't want to burn any bridges. Six months later when I was still getting calls I felt trapped. So then I finally told them that it had been six months and I could no longer help them without getting paid. Suddenly they managed to get things done on their own. We are still on good terms; I even meet for lunch or drinks occasionally with those same colleagues 12 years later. Since then, I always offer to help for a fee while they transition. None have ever been upset by that approach since they are professionals; something that in hindsight I wasn't when I offered to do it as a favor all those years ago. Some employers have taken me up on this offer some have not. That is the motivation though. I don't WANT them to take me up on the offer; I've just quit so I want to move on. I also don't want to burn bridges or leave anyone in the lurch.
- ptero 10y ago
  I personally did this last time I changed jobs. I got maybe 5 calls of no more than 1 hour each and spent a few hours in SSH session (restoring a service I wrote for myself but put on the intranet which I thought no one but myself was using; when my workstation was wiped apparently enough people wanted it back). I got a "we owe you a beer" after that which I never claimed as I am halfway across the US now and that was it. As I took no money I felt very comfortable choosing dates and times that were convenient for me. They would email me and I would set up an hour for a phone call or an ssh session within the next few days. If I took any money I would feel pressure to respond quicker. Anyhow, this worked for me, but obviously YMMV.
  - bigtunacan 10y ago
    If this had been my experience, then I probably would have been fine with not charging. To elaborate on my personal experiences. It was never about making money, but always about smoothly severing ties. In my first experience both I and my new employer were frustrated as I was receiving calls every week for more than six months. The old company and the new company were different, but they had close ties which is the only reason my new job tolerated that I was spending hours they were paying for on someone else for free. When it was still going on for six months I was advised by my current boss to advise them I would have to charge to continue to support them, and see what happened. At that point they said they understood and would discuss it with their superiours. It turned out that with money as a motivating factor they finally were able to get by without me. With another employer I knew that a standard two week notice for them wasn't long enough as I was their lone sys admin, but anything longer would not have been ok for my new employer who had just lost a key employee on a major project and needed someone that could step in ASAP and hit the ground running. In that case I offerered that I could help out in the evenings or weekends for a reasonable hourly rate that was still above my normal hourly rate. They were glad to have that offer there and said they would only call me if they absolutely had to. I never heard a word from them until I got a call that their Exchange server (which I had repeatedly advised them for more than a year needed to be replaced, but they were too cheap to do so) had crashed and they urgently needed help. I came in on a Friday night after getting off work and then I worked straight through the weekend to setup a new server and recover all of the lost data. They were more than glad to pay. With another employer I was the leadon a mission criticial financial system I gave them a longer than usual notice when I was leaving to give them extra time to prepare for my departure. Then I spent my last month doing nothing but trying to make sure everyone knew what was needed before I left. I gave them the same option, for a fee they were welcome to call me whenever they needed. Almost six months went by and I didn't hear from them, then I got a call when they realized no one knew how to handle their end of year cutover. I walked them through it in an hour long call. They were very happy to have the help and would have paid; I told them not to worry about it since it was only an hour and they hadn't been pestering me in the past, but that if I got a call next year about the same issue I would have to bill them for it. No bridges were burned there; they were happy and occassionally I have run in to some of the higher ups and they always tell me how they would love for me to come back if I ever decide I need a change.

corobo 10y ago

Yeah whether you're leaving or not this is still business, not a charity. Charge a healthy consultancy fee (hint: it's more than your ex-wage cause you need to cover taxes, your self-employed admin costs, and motivation fees). If they need you enough they'll pay it and if they don't then you're away guilt-free.