11 ms·

If the current project has been poorly managed so far & dates keep slipping, that is likely to continue to be the case. The launch date could slip even further.

If the current project has been poorly managed so far & dates keep slipping, that is likely to continue to be the case. The launch date could slip even further. You already arranged a leave date with your employer, and you already went beyond what you were required to by trying to schedule that so you could help launch the project. You are not responsible for their failure to hit their schedules. Trying to push your start date back with your new employer could also damage your upcoming relationship with them: they're more likely to care that the date change hurts their plans then that you want to do something generous for your current employer. I think you should get out.

oddevan 10y ago
> If the current project has been poorly managed so far & dates keep slipping, that is likely to continue to be the case. A little louder for the people in the back. Especially if you've already given notice to your current employer, go ahead and get out. If you haven't... I think you can justify leaving easily enough. You fully intended to stay on and finish, and I think anyone that cares enough to ask about this will understand.
jerf 10y ago
"If the current project has been poorly managed so far & dates keep slipping, that is likely to continue to be the case. The launch date could slip even further." Actually, I'd say it's relatively safe to go a step farther. Based on the description, the odds favor the interpretation that the poster will not be leaving one week before the deployment. The odds favor that either the poster is leaving several months before deployment, or several months before the project gets canned anyhow. To the poster, I'd suggest keeping in touch with one of those 14 people and just ask them to tell you when it ships. You have a very good chance of discovering that you have absolutely nothing to feel guilty over when you realize nine months from now you still haven't heard from them, and it turns out that it's because it still hasn't shipped yet.... (Or they found another job too....)
richmarr 10y ago
> The launch date could slip even further. Totally. You've given notice, and accepted an offer (and start date) elsewhere. You're done. Walk away, or accept their dubious power over you. If a relationship partner did something bad enough that you dumped/divorced them, but they demanded that you stay a bit longer because they hadn't finished doing the thing you disliked... Take your power back. Walk away.
topbanana 10y ago
I agree. But it doesn't sound like a very nice environment, so expect to be their new scapegoat as soon as you've turned your back.
Ensorceled 10y ago
There is nothing more frustrating as a manager than a new hire who starts pushing back their start date, especially close to the start date. Computers have been purchased, training partners assigned, HR booked, initial projects pulled out of the backlog. I've had a couple of firm conversations where I basically said, "On Monday you should be with the company you want to be with and if that's not us, I understand and will start the hiring process again."
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- ddito 10y ago
  So you would rather restart the hiring process than wait another week? From what I've read about the numbers this seems very costly. Are you expecting to be able to go through the whole hiring process successfully with another person in 5 working days? My best guess would be that you did not like the person that much but that is missing the point
  - 46Bit 10y ago
    See what happened with the OP. They pushed back one week, and are now close to doing it again. As mentioned above there's scope for this to continue indefinitely until the new employer puts their foot down.
    - Ensorceled 10y ago
      Exactly. The second time is when the ultimatums start. Plus, I'm always concerned when a developer ends their last job on Friday and starts Monday at our company.
      - awa 10y ago
        > Plus, I'm always concerned when a developer ends their last job on Friday and starts Monday at our company. Why? I did that else my family would have without health insurance (and income) for a while..
decebalus1 10y ago
This. I remember a similar (but less serious) situation in which I went 2.5 yrs with 0 vacation. I was feeling pretty much beat and close to burned out so I scheduled a vacation outside of the country having basically the max number of PTO days an employee can gather. Told my manager of my plans and he passive aggressively told me that sure, you can take PTO... the project is on fire and we'll launch next month but sure, you go on your vacation. Did not go because I was genuinely scared about my career. Project got pushed another two months. Tried to do the same, same result. Got pushed back again two months. And I was still there, working my ass off. Rewards for that year were mediocre at best, although I worked my ass off. What I learned from that is the fact that work never ever ends. There is no 'perfect' time for leaving. Even after launch, the team may need the original developers to fight fires all day and patch production to keep things running especially if the project was a death march or if the schedule was pushed back a couple of times. Leave, try your best to not burn bridges and be honest with the current employer.
- user5994461 10y ago
  You missed the most important lesson. 1. Don't work your ass off. Especially, don't work your ass off expecting to be rewarded. It never happens. 2. Never sacrifice your personal life for work. It aint worth it.
  - toomuchtodo 10y ago
    So much truth in such a short comment.
  - porpoisemonkey 10y ago
    > 1. Don't work your ass off. > Especially, don't work your ass off expecting to be rewarded. It never happens. I think this might be an over-generalization and that this is might only hold true for people who are farther along in their careers. I'm currently in year six of mine and I've been given a lot of great projects and early promotions (with subsequent pay jumps) from having been in the minority of people on a team that is working their ass off. These returns have, however, diminished with time. If I had to hazard a guess I think this is probably because a more junior engineer working their ass off can show quick and obvious improvements to the quality of your work and time management skills, which start off as near excrement and iterate to "ok" over time.
ptero 10y ago
Yes! The project seems mismanaged, you dislike working there, you have a better job with a start date agreed on -- get out now. Also, be explicit with yourself on why you do not want to leave shortly before deployment? IMO the only reasonable answer is that you are a key player and want to help your current project through birthing pains. If so, you can offer to help your old employer, pro bono, for a short time after the launch as your time allows. No guarantees, but you will try. If they do ask for help, work for a few evenings or a weekend and help. But leave now -- the chances that the latest slip of a badly managed project is the last are always slim.
- bigtunacan 10y ago
  This minus the pro bono. If you are indeed a key dev then you can offer to continue some paid side work short term to get them through the transition pains. It is only fair that you get paid and it also gives the old employer an incentive to phase you out more quickly due to costs rather than use you for a crutch as long as possible.
  - ptero 10y ago
    To me, doing this pro bono is the way to go. This makes it crystal clear to your old employer that you are doing it as a favor, not obligation or commitment. Then you can also pull out at any time. You are just being nice (which tends to pay benefits eventually in some unpredictable ways), not trying to earn some extra cash. In fact I doubt many companies would take you up on that offer at all. IMO consulting for your old employer might upset your new employer ("whom would he support if both of us need him at the same time?). Taking a few calls pro bono, even at work time (which is not pro bono now, your new employer is effectively paying for it) is usually just fine with new employer. This shows you as a responsible person that is unlikely to burn bridges changing jobs, valuable member of the team (your old employer values you enough to ask for your advice, etc.). My 2c.
    - cmdrfred 10y ago
      >doing it as a favor In my experience doing something "as a favor" is the fastest way to get the person you are trying to help to act in a entitled manner.
KKKKkkkk1 10y ago
The other point of view is that you should never burn your bridges. Your next employer is likely to be much more flexible at first than later on, and even more so before you start, so if you need a favor, now is exactly the time to ask for it.
drakudo 10y ago
>> If the current project has been poorly managed so far & dates keep slipping, that is likely to continue to be the case. If you leave, it would give the management one more valid excuse to push back the dates further, this is what they might be looking for anyways.
- pbhjpbhj 10y ago
  Perhaps he should have a quiet word with the manager in charge "slip me a couple hundred and I'll leave right away so you've an excuse to push back the deadline" ;0P
JamesBarney 10y ago
On my last day at my last job I was told that I picked a really bad time to leave. It had been 3 months since I'd given them notice....
rconti 10y ago
Yep. Eject.

oddevan 10y ago

> If the current project has been poorly managed so far & dates keep slipping, that is likely to continue to be the case. A little louder for the people in the back. Especially if you've already given notice to your current employer, go ahead and get out. If you haven't... I think you can justify leaving easily enough. You fully intended to stay on and finish, and I think anyone that cares enough to ask about this will understand.

jerf 10y ago

"If the current project has been poorly managed so far & dates keep slipping, that is likely to continue to be the case. The launch date could slip even further." Actually, I'd say it's relatively safe to go a step farther. Based on the description, the odds favor the interpretation that the poster will not be leaving one week before the deployment. The odds favor that either the poster is leaving several months before deployment, or several months before the project gets canned anyhow. To the poster, I'd suggest keeping in touch with one of those 14 people and just ask them to tell you when it ships. You have a very good chance of discovering that you have absolutely nothing to feel guilty over when you realize nine months from now you still haven't heard from them, and it turns out that it's because it still hasn't shipped yet.... (Or they found another job too....)

richmarr 10y ago

> The launch date could slip even further. Totally. You've given notice, and accepted an offer (and start date) elsewhere. You're done. Walk away, or accept their dubious power over you. If a relationship partner did something bad enough that you dumped/divorced them, but they demanded that you stay a bit longer because they hadn't finished doing the thing you disliked... Take your power back. Walk away.

topbanana 10y ago

I agree. But it doesn't sound like a very nice environment, so expect to be their new scapegoat as soon as you've turned your back.

Ensorceled 10y ago

There is nothing more frustrating as a manager than a new hire who starts pushing back their start date, especially close to the start date. Computers have been purchased, training partners assigned, HR booked, initial projects pulled out of the backlog. I've had a couple of firm conversations where I basically said, "On Monday you should be with the company you want to be with and if that's not us, I understand and will start the hiring process again."

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
ddito 10y ago
So you would rather restart the hiring process than wait another week? From what I've read about the numbers this seems very costly. Are you expecting to be able to go through the whole hiring process successfully with another person in 5 working days? My best guess would be that you did not like the person that much but that is missing the point
- 46Bit 10y ago
  See what happened with the OP. They pushed back one week, and are now close to doing it again. As mentioned above there's scope for this to continue indefinitely until the new employer puts their foot down.
  - Ensorceled 10y ago
    Exactly. The second time is when the ultimatums start. Plus, I'm always concerned when a developer ends their last job on Friday and starts Monday at our company.
    - awa 10y ago
      > Plus, I'm always concerned when a developer ends their last job on Friday and starts Monday at our company. Why? I did that else my family would have without health insurance (and income) for a while..

decebalus1 10y ago

This. I remember a similar (but less serious) situation in which I went 2.5 yrs with 0 vacation. I was feeling pretty much beat and close to burned out so I scheduled a vacation outside of the country having basically the max number of PTO days an employee can gather. Told my manager of my plans and he passive aggressively told me that sure, you can take PTO... the project is on fire and we'll launch next month but sure, you go on your vacation. Did not go because I was genuinely scared about my career. Project got pushed another two months. Tried to do the same, same result. Got pushed back again two months. And I was still there, working my ass off. Rewards for that year were mediocre at best, although I worked my ass off. What I learned from that is the fact that work never ever ends. There is no 'perfect' time for leaving. Even after launch, the team may need the original developers to fight fires all day and patch production to keep things running especially if the project was a death march or if the schedule was pushed back a couple of times. Leave, try your best to not burn bridges and be honest with the current employer.

user5994461 10y ago
You missed the most important lesson. 1. Don't work your ass off. Especially, don't work your ass off expecting to be rewarded. It never happens. 2. Never sacrifice your personal life for work. It aint worth it.
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  So much truth in such a short comment.
- porpoisemonkey 10y ago
  > 1. Don't work your ass off. > Especially, don't work your ass off expecting to be rewarded. It never happens. I think this might be an over-generalization and that this is might only hold true for people who are farther along in their careers. I'm currently in year six of mine and I've been given a lot of great projects and early promotions (with subsequent pay jumps) from having been in the minority of people on a team that is working their ass off. These returns have, however, diminished with time. If I had to hazard a guess I think this is probably because a more junior engineer working their ass off can show quick and obvious improvements to the quality of your work and time management skills, which start off as near excrement and iterate to "ok" over time.

ptero 10y ago

Yes! The project seems mismanaged, you dislike working there, you have a better job with a start date agreed on -- get out now. Also, be explicit with yourself on why you do not want to leave shortly before deployment? IMO the only reasonable answer is that you are a key player and want to help your current project through birthing pains. If so, you can offer to help your old employer, pro bono, for a short time after the launch as your time allows. No guarantees, but you will try. If they do ask for help, work for a few evenings or a weekend and help. But leave now -- the chances that the latest slip of a badly managed project is the last are always slim.

bigtunacan 10y ago
This minus the pro bono. If you are indeed a key dev then you can offer to continue some paid side work short term to get them through the transition pains. It is only fair that you get paid and it also gives the old employer an incentive to phase you out more quickly due to costs rather than use you for a crutch as long as possible.
- ptero 10y ago
  To me, doing this pro bono is the way to go. This makes it crystal clear to your old employer that you are doing it as a favor, not obligation or commitment. Then you can also pull out at any time. You are just being nice (which tends to pay benefits eventually in some unpredictable ways), not trying to earn some extra cash. In fact I doubt many companies would take you up on that offer at all. IMO consulting for your old employer might upset your new employer ("whom would he support if both of us need him at the same time?). Taking a few calls pro bono, even at work time (which is not pro bono now, your new employer is effectively paying for it) is usually just fine with new employer. This shows you as a responsible person that is unlikely to burn bridges changing jobs, valuable member of the team (your old employer values you enough to ask for your advice, etc.). My 2c.
  - cmdrfred 10y ago
    >doing it as a favor In my experience doing something "as a favor" is the fastest way to get the person you are trying to help to act in a entitled manner.

KKKKkkkk1 10y ago

The other point of view is that you should never burn your bridges. Your next employer is likely to be much more flexible at first than later on, and even more so before you start, so if you need a favor, now is exactly the time to ask for it.

drakudo 10y ago

>> If the current project has been poorly managed so far & dates keep slipping, that is likely to continue to be the case. If you leave, it would give the management one more valid excuse to push back the dates further, this is what they might be looking for anyways.

pbhjpbhj 10y ago
Perhaps he should have a quiet word with the manager in charge "slip me a couple hundred and I'll leave right away so you've an excuse to push back the deadline" ;0P

JamesBarney 10y ago

On my last day at my last job I was told that I picked a really bad time to leave. It had been 3 months since I'd given them notice....

rconti 10y ago

Yep. Eject.