15 ms·

Doomsday Prep for the Super-rich

154 points by fullshark 10y ago

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
lawless123 10y ago
>lot of people stocking up on Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, A post apocalypse in which internet survives seems far fetched.
- Alex3917 10y ago
  > A post apocalypse in which internet survives seems far fetched. The apocalypse is already here, it's just unevenly distributed.
  - VLM 10y ago
    And disasters / apocalypse are distributed by a power law or exponential. The lead subject in the linked article is almost certain to live long enough to experience the inevitable next San Francisco earthquake, at which time he will absolutely die if his glasses are broken and he can't get around, so his prepping by fixing his eyes makes sense. Most prepping means your survival on the "oops" scale goes up. The media making fun of anything other than business as usual focuses solely on preppers and total thermonuclear war or zombies or utter economic collapse. People sick of journalists, troll them right back, yah bro I'm prepping for the zombie and alien invasion. In reality, personally I'm very well prepared for legendary blizzards, which makes sense because where I live we get legendary grade "international news story" blizzards perhaps every couple years. Because its very cheap, very easy, and I love my family. But sure, I'd tell a journalist my snow shoes and camping gear are for surviving the thermonuclear winter. Mostly because I hate journalists (just being honest about myself)
    - sjg007 10y ago
      Well... in California when it snows, everyone freaks out. In Minnesota, it's a Monday.
- the_duke 10y ago
  No but they would survive the collapse of one country and it's economy. (Not saying that this is a smart way to park your money...)
  - woofyman 10y ago
    That's only true for countries with small economies. If the US, China, Japan or the Eurozone collapsed, that would plunge the whole world into a depression.
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    The number in the ledger will obviously survive, will the value? I mean, say I have some food that I want to trade (not just me, me and my big squad of well armed killers). Are you going to trade instead with the guy who says he has lots of bitcoin?
- halomru 10y ago
  Bitcoin behaves rather badly under global scale network partitions, or if your global network has a latency of over an hour. But on the other hand it is completely immune to collapse of governments
  - cafebabbe 10y ago
    Ha, "completely immune". Good luck accessing your wallet without power plants...
    - mywittyname 10y ago
      Or internet access. It seems like you could commit fraud by traveling to regions without a means to communicate with one-another online and selling them BTCs that were already spent on another network. I bet two people pull that off before those communities ban BTC.
      - usrusr 10y ago
        On the other hand, as long as those communication islands don't reconnect, all those double-spent BTC will be just as good/bad as homemade dollar bills. Bitcoin might be postapocalyptically valuable if the apocalypse in question has hyperinflation at its core, but in a scenario without that it will be inferior even to vintage paper money. The true availability of BTC within a given community is just too much of an uncertainty. What could be a sizable fraction of the amount in active circulation one day could be completely devalued due some early adopter backup going live a day later.
    - halomru 10y ago
      "collapse of government" doesn't have to mean total collapse of infrastructure. Providing infrastructure is harder without government, but if you charge for the infrastructure anyway, you can just increase prices. It's of course a problem for low income workers, but here we are talking about the super rich.
      - che_shirecat 10y ago
- drcode 10y ago
  To be fair, Bitcoin technically doesn't need a true internet, just an ad-hoc mesh network. (Not that those will be easy to come by, either, but they would be somewhat more feasible to establish.)
  - shuntress 10y ago
    What would be the mechanism by which which two previously separate but each fully legitimate (in their own network) ledgers interact? Not trying to poke holes; Just curious. E: To clarify, imagine that the North American Free Peoples Conglomerate and the New China Society finally re-establish contact between the two continents for the first time in hundreds of years. They have each been running fully functional bitcoin networks for generations on their (until now) 100% separated continent-wide networks. Is there any current consideration for combining two block chains? or would this need a new custom solution to handle treating each as a completely separate currency (exchange rates)?
    - vkou 10y ago
      The one burning more electricity on mining new blocks would win, and the other ledger would be invalid, after the point of divergence.
      - LyndsySimon 10y ago
        ... but the individual transactions on the losing chain could would still be valid and could be incorporated into the winning blockchain. It wouldn't be quite a simple as "the shortest chain loses" Oh, and the country with the lowest amount of energy spent mining would win. Both countries hashing after unification would work on the chain with the lowest difficulty, which would be the one with the least hashing power. :)
        Atheros 10y ago
        You need to read more about how Bitcoin works.
- sjg007 10y ago
  Well.. Darpa designed arpanet (the precursor) to the internet to persist in the event of a nuclear holocaust. All of those bunkers probably have ham radios (thanks Jon Conner) and redundant internet connections.
  - flukus 10y ago
    I was designed to survive a nuclear attack and be able to retaliate, not to survive long term societal collapse.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
ratsbane 10y ago
I've got a titanium spork and some dental floss in my backpack and in the trunk of my car I've got a hi-vis vest, white hard hat, and a two-way radio. Am I missing anything? Are some of these prepper people are missing out on the key concept that to live by your wits you need wits? Or maybe they're aware of that and that's why they stockpile the shotgun shells and dehydrated water capsules...?
- JoeAltmaier 10y ago
  Wits don't help when the water is all dirty, the food is in cans and the batteries wear out. Especially when other sharp-witted people are in the same situation.
- beachstartup 10y ago
  if you found yourself in the middle of koreatown during the 1992 LA riots, do you think that stuff in your trunk would get you very far?
  - ratsbane 10y ago
    Oh, absolutely not. But I hope my car would.
  - 1812Overture 10y ago
    This is why I keep a roof Korean in my trunk.
- optimuspaul 10y ago
  > dehydrated water capsules Is that a real thing? that sounds like nothing at all.
  - cr0sh 10y ago
    No - but there do exist "survival water packets" - you can find them on amazon and elsewhere (basically small pouches of clean water - think ketchup packets, with clean water instead).
- 10y ago
throwaway2016a 10y ago
> To protect his wife and daughter, he said, “I don’t have guns, but I have a lot of other weaponry. I took classes in archery.” This whole article reads like some surreal parody of what eccentric SV mil/billionaires would do. Although I suppose there is probably some truth that in a post apocalyptic / post rule of law world... the person in the big house with the expensive stuff to loot probably has a huge target on them.
- blhack 10y ago
  I mean...I guess arrows are reusable and much more easily created by hand than bullets? I guess?
  - voidlogic 10y ago
    Post apoc. things like bows and crossbows would be more valuable, but I can't see weapon tech falling much below the 1850s. Its much easier to make a lead ball than an arrow and making blackpower is less about infrastructure than knowledge. I have a replica Remington Model 1858 black power revolver. It shoots lead balls which are easy to make, same with its percussion caps. The kicker is, once loaded, its tactically the same as any modern single action 6 shooter. If things really got bad, I have a heard time imaging my .55 cal muzzle loading flint lock would be out of commission either. I'd save the cross bow for stealth actions and maybe hunting smaller game, for which it would rock. There is also the fact it would take years to burn up all the ammo floating around out there, so this would be gradual.
    - virmundi 10y ago
      I've played pirates with real flint lock pistols that still sparked. They were old than the US. Really, they should never had allowed college students to run around a refurb'ed castle without a supervisor.
    - manarth 10y ago
      I can't see weapon tech falling much below the 1850s. I can imagine short-term or more localised effects. The USA could be viewed as an outlier, given the amount of gun-ownership: 22% of the population (and as some people own many guns, the total number of guns is more than 1 gun per person). By comparison, less than 1% of the UK population own a gun. So in some countries, there may be guns around for the taking, but in other countries, those guns will be in the hands of very few people. I'd imagine a period of a year or so where more primitive weaponry took precedence, during which we would have to relearn how to make tools, weapons and ammo without the benefit of technically advanced manufacturing.
agiamas 10y ago
reddit may be valued at 600 million (orl?) but steve huffman's net worth is in the millions/tens of millions at most. you wouldn't call him super rich when he can barely afford a nice house in Palo Alto :)
- che_shirecat 10y ago
  don't understand the downvotes -> he's worth $5-10m at most, chump change in SV
- rjeli 10y ago
  Agree, "super-rich" makes me think of Zuckerberg, Saudi princes, Russian oligarchs, etc. - "buy a yacht because you're bored" types.
dhc_tech 10y ago
Seems like fallout shelters...where do I apply to be an overseer?
- ogsharkman 10y ago
  Right this way, just step into this decontamination pod
ucaetano 10y ago
I grew up in a 3rd world small farm, raising pigs, chicken, setting traps and planting a bunch of stuff, not to mention a light version of WROL (without rule of law). Reading this article I feel that I'm more prepared for the apocalypse than all the "super-rich"...
- nickpsecurity 10y ago
  You and all of us that lived in rural areas learning to survive on the land, cooperate with neighbors, and fight off trouble-makers. Such people will probably do better than most.
- mywittyname 10y ago
  Because you absolutely are. I've always thought that anybody who seriously thinks society is going to collapse should just move to a developing country, buy a farm, and get-on getting-on. Because there's really no way to prepare other than to get started on your post-collapse life. I grew up on a farm in very rural USA and we often face mini-"disasters". The roads would be impassable due to snow, power would go out for weeks sometimes. My life has shown me that you don't prepare for disasters, you just do without. You're cold, hungry, and miserable. Guns and ammo doesn't help because there's nothing really to hunt, same goes for fishing (most people don't live within walking distance of a non-polluted waterway). Better not get too attached to electricity or driving because it's going to be impossible to store any significant amount of fuel. A collapsed society resembles rural Afghanistan or India more than it does whatever wild west these people are imagining.
  - ucaetano 10y ago
    > we often face mini-"disasters" True! I remember one time when our transformer blew up, and we lived for several weeks without electricity until we got a replacement. Nothing like listening to the world cup on a battery-powered radio. Fun times!
- jly 10y ago
  I agree with this, too. Most of the super rich have wealth and resources that matter in a stable global capitalistic economy/society, but these will have no value with the breakdown of that system. The truly important skills, post-disaster, will be those needed to survive without civilization. The ones that survive will be those that already have those skills or are quick to adapt, AND are physically located in areas with enough resources to survive.
Zikes 10y ago
> I own a couple of motorcycles. I have a bunch of guns and ammo. Food. I figure that, with that, I can hole up in my house for some amount of time. Revealing the location of your supplies cache is one of the biggest mistakes you can make, in such a scenario. Desperate people now know where to go to find such things.
bambax 10y ago
I was afraid this article was going to upset me, but in fact it doesn't shy away from the more difficult questions, namely A/ the reason we're "skating on really thin cultural ice right now" is in no small part due to the emergence and dominance of social media, so it's quite rich that the people responsible for chaos are trying to protect themselves from it B/ it's quite morally repugnant to want to survive alone if society collapses C/ it's completely impractical because you can't survive alone for very long ("are you taking your pilot's family with you? What about the maintenance guys?")
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- Karunamon 10y ago
  Would you elaborate on B a bit? I don't quite see the moral value judgment in surviving while society collapses.
  - bambax 10y ago
    Everyone is part of society. If society "collapses" (which can take many forms), the responsible, respectable reaction is to stay with it and try to restore it, not cut it loose -- retract to a shelter somewhere with "lots of guns and ammo" to wait it out. When disaster strikes it may be very natural and expected to save oneself, if possible. That's survival instinct. But prepare for it is not admirable, to say the least. It's being selfish with intent. Max Levchin says this in the article "It’s one of the few things about Silicon Valley that I actively dislike—the sense that we are superior giants who move the needle and, even if it’s our own failure, must be spared."
    - Karunamon 10y ago
      But at the end of the day, you're not restoring anything if you're dead due to lack of food, water, or shelter, or violent action by someone else. That's what's confusing me about your view, here. There's a reason these basics are at the very base of Maslow's hierarchy[1], and that's because without them, such niceties as polite society aren't possible. It would be foolish to not concentrate on having the basics available. 1: http://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow-pyramid.jpg http://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow-pyramid.jpg
doikor 10y ago
I really don't see a scenario working where you pay money to someone to protect you in a doomsday scenario working. The guard is the guy with the guns (and the training to use them). Why would the guard not just kill you/kick you out of the secure place once shit hits the fan?
- rubidium 10y ago
  From the article: One of the guests was skeptical, Dugger said. “He leaned forward and asked, ‘Are you taking your pilot’s family, too? And what about the maintenance guys? If revolutionaries are kicking in doors, how many of the people in your life will you have to take with you?’ The questioning continued. In the end, most agreed they couldn’t run.”
  - FabHK 10y ago
    You could learn to fly the plane. You only need to use it once, out. No more maintenance needed after. Now, I disagree with this whole "preppers" mindset, but I think some of the practical problems could be overcome.
- science4sail 10y ago
  It's like one of the sayings in A Song of Ice and Fire: A swordsman receives conflicting orders from a king, merchant, and priest. Actual power lies with the swordsman, everything else is just an illusion brought about by societal convention.
che_shirecat 10y ago
>He is less focussed on a specific threat Call me a nit, but why are there typos in an article from the new yorker? Edit: apparently doubling the consonant is something they just do - http://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/the-double-l http://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/the-double-l
- DanBC 10y ago
  Focussed is an acceptable, although unusual, spelling variant.
- TetOn 10y ago
  Indeed, cf cöoperation and etc... in their pages.
- mintone 10y ago
  Are you focussing on the word 'focussed'? That is a correct spelling of the word and if memory serves, the New Yorker have written about how their style guide requires it.
- 1812Overture 10y ago
  The New Yorker intentionally uses a bunch of archaic spelling and grammar to look smart despite the often mediocre content of what they're saying.
ttepasse 10y ago
So. You're not one of the 0.1%. Society "collapsed", whatever than means. You did go through hardship, hunger, lack of Instagram, pain, loss of loved ones, loss of property but also amazing feats of solidarity and human compassion. It still doesn't really look OK and you're daily mourning the life you and society lost. Then there lands a Gulfstream, out climbs a well fed billionaire straight out his fancy bunker. There's a street lamp nearby and a little bit of rope could be found..
- nickff 10y ago
  Envy does not justify murder. Most modern philosophers have taken the view that envy itself is immoral.
  - woofyman 10y ago
    >Envy does not justify murder In a post apocalyptic society it's kill or be killed.
    - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
      In a sense. The size of the group matters - inside the group you have trusted allies. Two foragers are safer than one; three are safer than two. And so one.
  - ucaetano 10y ago
    Try to explain that to a hungry crowd watching your well-fed family leaving a bunker. "Oh please, what you're doing is morally wrong. Shame on you!"
    - nickff 10y ago
      I'm not saying that immorality alone will stop many people, but your rationale proves too much, and would stop you from intervening in any immoral act.
- ucaetano 10y ago
Alex3917 10y ago
So this is actually something I've thought a lot about, in terms of whether it's actually rational to be a prepper or if it's just a fun hobby. In nominal terms, your risk of dying in a society-wide collapse is actually larger than your risk of dying in a car accident.[1] So if you wouldn't think twice about taking basic steps to lower your chances of vehicle death (e.g. wearing a seatbelt) then it's absolutely rational to be at least concerned about your risk of dying in the apocalypse. However, in absolute terms your risk of dying in the apocalypse is still considerably smaller than the most common causes of death. Given that only 1.2% of Americans meet all 7 guidelines for good cardiovascular health[2], being a prepper probably has negative returns unless you already have enough money to access safe food and healthcare, you're meeting all the guidelines for good cardiovascular health, you don't have any neglected mental health issues, etc. [1] http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/04/a-human-extinction-isnt-that-unlikely/480444/ http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/04/a-huma... [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22427615 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22427615
- blahshaw 10y ago
  I'm really curious what those guidelines are. I don't see them listed in that link.
  - Alex3917 10y ago
    http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/243071.php http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/243071.php That's the tl;dr version. For each of those bullet points there is obviously some nuance, e.g. knowing how much exercise counts as being physically active.
- LyndsySimon 10y ago
  I did some math on my end too - I decided that at my weight, I was more likely to die or experience a great reduction in quality of life due to complications incidental to obesity than anything else. As a result, I'm focused on dropping weight and getting healthier before anything else :)
jps359 10y ago
So did I miss the boat on getting rich off of selling survivalist gear?
- ryandrake 10y ago
  Survivalism, prepping, militias, whatever you call it now, is pretty much just Military Cosplay. It's just another hobby for people with disposable income. Instead of golf clubs they're spending it on AR-15s, bunkers, and canned food.
  - Arizhel 10y ago
    Well at least the canned food can just be eaten eventually, so it's not really a waste.
dmode 10y ago
Having grown up in poverty in a third world country that is extremely chaotic, the doomsday obsession in America is laughable and a little disturbing at the same time. Society doesn't break down like that. Can someone explain why is there such paranoia in the US about societal collapse ? It it video games, movies, media frenzy, hyper partisan politics ? All of it ? I know people who have created bunkers and stock pilled food to prepare for apocalypse. Seriously !!
- jly 10y ago
  We have an even-increasing supply of dangerous nuclear weapons on this planet, and no short supply of individuals who may want to use them. I can envision a lot of scenarios from that which could lead to societal breakdown.
  - maxerickson 10y ago
    The number of nuclear weapons peaked ~30 years ago and has declined precipitously since then: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:US_and_USSR_nuclear_stockpiles.svg#/media/File:US_and_USSR_nuclear_stockpiles.svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:US_and_USSR_nuclear_... (that other countries now have warheads doesn't make up much of the difference: http://www.icanw.org/the-facts/nuclear-arsenals/ http://www.icanw.org/the-facts/nuclear-arsenals/ )
- vkou 10y ago
  The wost-case scenario is civil war - in which case society very much does break down like that. Things will have to get much worse before that outcome is likely, though.
- woofyman 10y ago
  Most of it is due to Fundamental Christian beliefs along with extreme right wing political beliefs.
  - Alex3917 10y ago
    > Most of it is due to Fundamental Christian beliefs along with extreme right wing political beliefs. I haven't read the methodology, but supposedly over 40% of Americans believe the rapture is coming by 2050. And the rapture and the apocalypse should be mutually exclusive, in the sense that if you really think Jesus is going to save you then there isn't much reason to be stockpiling cans of spaghettios.
awfgylbcxhrey 10y ago
we are skating on really thin cultural ice right now. Nope. Not even close. We survived the Civil Rights movement and Vietnam War protests. For all our online angst and whining, we're not even 1/10th as far toward the tipping point as we were back then.
- sodafountan 10y ago
  Not to mention a Civil War, World War II and the Cold War. I think we'll all be alright.
  - infinite8s 10y ago
    Those were all human-created events. What happens when we have a super-volcano eruption and the world has another mini-ice age, and there are famines across the globe? Or the coastal flooding that is predicted to happen by 2050 if we continue current warming trends. We can't just force nature to give up through a superior show of force (unlike winning a war).
    - vkou 10y ago
      Coastal flooding would largely be economic damage - mostly distributed to a small segment of the population, not societal collapse. Food shortages caused by climate change, on the other hand...
  - mschaef 10y ago
    By taking such a sweeping view, you're glossing over a lot of individual suffering. Even if we're better off now than prior to WW2, the >50MM casualties of that war would probably disagree.
- disordinary 10y ago
  The difference is that those protests were steps in the right direction, what we're seeing now is a step backwards.
gloriasuziekim 10y ago
Let's be real- this article is more a lifestyle piece on the excessively prepared, i.e. type A, silicon valley super achievers. Apparently, this is an article about these folks who have their shit together so far ahead the rest of us, that this otherwise genius for productivity goes into form of deranged overdrive. Let's also look at this article's source, the New Yorker, as a vicarious observer and critic of anything that veers off their path of caring/obsessing about depresssing novelists/filmmaker s and actors, fashion, and all things analogue as the solution to the salvation of the light of humanity and culture, of which they perceive themselves as the clear torchbearers.
jly 10y ago
> The fears vary, but many worry that, as artificial intelligence takes away a growing share of jobs, there will be a backlash against Silicon Valley, America’s second-highest concentration of wealth. (Southwestern Connecticut is first.) “I’ve heard this theme from a bunch of people,” Hoffman said. “Is the country going to turn against the wealthy? Is it going to turn against technological innovation? Is it going to turn into civil disorder?” This is already happening and I would expect it to get worse. We have a chance now to develop policies that will help mitigate the negative effects, if we choose to.
- infinite8s 10y ago
  The current policy proposals being floated since the election are moving in the opposite direction to mitigating those effects.
gloriasuziekim 10y ago
And what's up with the beefed up security guy with a kalishnakov who looks like he's some steroid version of Neal Stephenson? At least they got their marketing for this article right.
vkou 10y ago
It amuses me greatly that Peter Thiel is listed as one of the people who will bug out if things turn bad. I suppose that's the backup plan when his libertarian utopia doesn't work out?
- infinite8s 10y ago
  That's part of the libertarian ethos. To each his own...
- flukus 10y ago
  Doesn't he get entry to whatever presidential compound there is?
- disordinary 10y ago
  It's also funny that he's holding up in NZ which sits way off to the left politically when compared to the US. I guess no government is good, until you want a place to stay when society breaks down.
omegaworks 10y ago
Glamor-prepping, glepping: the ultimate fuck-you-I-got-mine to any young people still struggling to come up in the society that these wealthy people wield an undue influence over. What happens when everybody at the top has their private island sanctuary but still holds power in the society we all have to live in?
- infinite8s 10y ago
  How will they enforce that power? It will either require humans (of a different social status) or robotic weapons/mercenaries.
  - omegaworks 10y ago
    I wasn't speaking to what happens after (some hypothetical nonsense) collapse happens, but what's happening now. Resources invested in creating these bubbles are resources not invested in the wider economy. What if that $mil you spent building a bunker to hide from the future could have been the $mil that funded the battery tech that saved that future?
fallingfrog 10y ago
How many paid people does it take to maintain these huge compounds?? These people don't seem to understand that all of their wealth and possessions only belong to them because there is a big organized power system that says so, with lawyers and cops with guns and people that are required to obtain cash money every month. 5 seconds after things go south, that helicopter belongs to the pilot, not to you. That land you're buying belongs to the person standing on it. If you're really afraid of the apocalypse, then stock up on the only things that will matter afterwards: friends and family, real relationships not based on money. That and some hand tools and guns.
- 1812Overture 10y ago
  I think this is what a lot of libertarian types don't get (a lot of overlap with prepper types). Taxes aren't the government stealing money that you willed into existence out of thin air, you're paying to live in a society built to protect your wealth.
  - zeveb 10y ago
    > Taxes aren't the government stealing money that you willed into existence out of thin air, you're paying to live in a society built to protect your wealth. Well, the Mafia do protect businesses which pay them protection money, too. Sure, you have a (single) vote for a few legislators and an executive at the state and federal levels to influence the IRS, but the influence of your vote is probably less than your shared humanity is an influence on a don's enforcers. There's a question of the extent to which the government's (or the Mafia's) taxation is commensurate with the services it renders, but they're equally involuntary. (and yes, government is necessary, and preferable to lawlessness; that doesn't mean that everything it does is right, nor does it mean that it's voluntary, any more than the execution of a convict who doesn't physically fight every step to the gallows is voluntary)
  - malandrew 10y ago
    Some taxes are useful (roads, justice system, police, some defense, etc). Many taxes however are simply theft. The only way taxes are fair is when it impacts everyone. When a tax takes money from one group for the benefit of the other, it's theft. A universal consumption tax is about the only thing that is fair as it's proportional to gains and gains are generally (albeitly imperfectly) proportional to shared infrastructure built, maintained and defended using taxes. Unless the additional revenue benefits everyone, it's hard to increase.
Nokinside 10y ago
Super-rich don't seem to understand that if the society collapses, only individualism that exists is rugged individualism. Hiding int he bunker might work for some time, but it would be life of fear. Individuals don't survive alone. It's the tribe, village and family that ensures survival. Best way to survive would be to connect into some tight knit community, where people who know and trust other take care of each other. If you have plenty and someone is starving, you share and bond or you fight. Here is better survival strategy for Silicon Valley billionaire: Build hidden storage bunker in the middle of Amish country. Fill it with all the community needs in doomsday, medicine, spare parts, tools and simple food. When doomsday happens, invite all your neighbors to share while you study bible and become important member in your community.
floatboth 10y ago
> “If I had a billion dollars, I wouldn’t buy a bunker,” Elli Kaplan, the C.E.O. of the digital health startup Neurotrack, told me. “I would reinvest in civil society and civil innovation. My view is you figure out even smarter ways to make sure that something terrible doesn’t happen.” At least there's one reasonable person in this circus. Also: https://youtu.be/XanyPq5BcoA?t=52m18s https://youtu.be/XanyPq5BcoA?t=52m18s
- Atheros 10y ago
  So I take it that neither you nor Elli Kaplan have home insurance?
ericzawo 10y ago
Isn't Sam Altman stockpiling gold and weapons?
onmobiletemp 10y ago
Wow, what a well written article. Usually i immediatley close an article that uses the annoying "journalism as a narrative" method, in which the author spends pages and pages going through their own useless internal ruminations and observations before getting to actual reporting and analysis. But this author did it in a way that i found quite agreeable. Such great writing. Anyway, these people are insane. Its hilarious to see some wealthy, liberal hedge fund manager consider with complete seriousness the prospect that donald trump will turn out to be a ruthless dictator. It is something that many liberal people are doing now -- comedically grave comparisons to hitler and concentration camps abound on the left. Werent these people around in 2008 when the right went through the exact same hysteria? Cant they look at the videos of right wingers furiously assering that obama was a muslim terrorist and see themselves?
FullMtlAlcoholc 10y ago
I don't understand why this is so weird. History is filled with chapters of societal wanton and rampant violence. It could be a class struggle like the French Revolution, deep seated ethno/racial enmity like the Rwandan Genocide, or some psychopathic asshole gains power, blames a helpless and pitiful group of so-called 'depraved deviants' for the entirety of his nation-state's problems, curses at the president of the US, and decides to deputize the entire nation as modern day Judge Dredd's with full authority as judge, jury, and executioner. Yes, even in the 21st century, (although this is in the Philippines, this shows what humans are capable of given certain conditions), you can kill someone if they are suspected of using drugs and Duerte will give you a medal. The astute among you can see that you can kill any person, sprinkle some crack on them, and not only will there be absolutely no investigation, you will be regarded as a patriot and a hero. It seems that if you kill a poor person, absolutely no one cares. This is one of the first major purchases I would make and I do have a rather large emergency kit should disaster strike. Like me, they're in California along a known fault line way overdue for a major earthquake. Unlike these "smart" execs, I'd hone my survival skills. I'm not overly concerned about a 21st century peasant revolt, but we live in an area where it's not a matter of if, but when a major disaster will strike. If people are without electricity and running water for an extended period of time and/or there is a breakdown in security (police, national guard, etc.), it gets ugly quick. For example, in Los Angeles, there was a mentally ill person who threatened to jump off of an overpass on the 405 (possibly the world's busiest freeway). His antics caused such a slowdown in traffic, the freeway became a literal parking lot for a few hours. Because a man inconvenienced their time, people began to goad him into killing himself saying things like "What are you waiting for you fucking pussy, get it over with!!!" This wasn't one person, a significant part of the traffic jam was saying this or wishing it. When you are malnourished and/or dehydrated, you lose compassion and reason, gain paranoia, and become more focused on your own survival. For people with such resources this is like paying a few pennies for apocalypse insurance.
bootload 10y ago
“I typically ask people, ‘So you’re worried about the pitchforks. How much money have you donated to your local homeless shelter?’ This connects the most, in my mind, to the realities of the income gap. All the other forms of fear that people bring up are artificial.” I like Max Levchins idea behind this statement. The underlying anxiety shown by a lot of the characters interviewed in this article display a real human dis-connect. There is nothing in the US (and other countries for that matter) that cannot be fixed with hard work, a bit of luck and investment in the right things. Maybe that is the real eye-opener. One of the things I have observed, in crisis the way individuals act, reflects their mental state. "The growing foreign appetite for New Zealand property has generated a backlash. The Campaign Against Foreign Control of Aotearoa—the Maori name for New Zealand—opposes sales to foreigners." NZ, a colonised country with a treaty, has all the same problems the US has in terms of inequity. Way more tribal and dangerous than the tourist brochures suggest. "The original silo of Hall’s complex was built by the Army Corps of Engineers to withstand a nuclear strike." The traces of hydrazine (H4N2), you get for nothing. ~ https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2016-09/documents/hydrazine.pdf https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2016-09/documents...
- bootload 10y ago
  another example: "Hawaiians call Mark Zuckerberg 'the face of neocolonialism' over land lawsuits" https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jan/23/mark-zuckerberg-hawaii-land-lawsuits-kauai-estate https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jan/23/mark-zuck... Bode well to get on with the local tribe with goodwill instead of using the blunt violence of the (questionable) law.
  - bootload 10y ago
    "“Based on feedback from the local community we are reconsidering the quiet title process and discussing how to move forward,” Zuckerberg said in a statement. Hawaiians call Mark Zuckerberg 'the face of neocolonialism' over land lawsuits “We want to make sure we are following a process that protects the interests of property owners, respects the traditions of native Hawaiians and preserves the environment.”" 3 day reversal ~ https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jan/26/mark-zuckerberg-reconsiders-forcing-hawaiians-to-sell-him-their-land https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jan/26/mark-zuck...
nikdaheratik 10y ago
For some reason, this made me think more of medieval castles, with Nuclear Silo condos replacing King Ludwig's mansions instead. I suppose they figure they won't need to add a courtyard for the peasants until after things settle down a bit.
ENTP 10y ago
If doomsday comes, at least we should get to meet John Titor.
dkarapetyan 10y ago
Either these folks truly don't understand how interdependent modern society is or the article cherry picked sound bites to make them look like idiots. Instead of investing in strengthening the institutions that made their way of life possible these idiots are trying to sequester themselves. It is sad that we have allowed morons to such high ranks of power. The only sensible voices in the entire article are Levchin and Johnson.
- FabHK 10y ago
  Agreed, "no man is an island". On a related note, I was appalled by the howls and outcries against Obama's (entirely sensible, if maybe easily misunderstood) "you didn't build that". (Related discussion in the "Don't tell your friends they're lucky" article/thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13437332 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13437332 )
  - Apocryphon 10y ago
    The War Nerd explains why survivalist individualism is overrated and false: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13484925 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13484925
    - FabHK 10y ago
      Nothing (except a header) seem to show up under that link?
Apocryphon 10y ago
Pretty good idea from the MeFi discussion: 'It's cute to see the whole "I'm going to buy a home in New Zealand! Full of canned goods! And a helicopter pad!" Realistically, though, for the money they could do a lot better. Go buy an entire block in Detroit, rehab all the houses, rent them at below-market rates to folks who need help. There's your "militia."'

154 points by fullshark 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

>lot of people stocking up on Bitcoin and cryptocurrency, A post apocalypse in which internet survives seems far fetched.

Alex3917 10y ago
> A post apocalypse in which internet survives seems far fetched. The apocalypse is already here, it's just unevenly distributed.
- VLM 10y ago
  And disasters / apocalypse are distributed by a power law or exponential. The lead subject in the linked article is almost certain to live long enough to experience the inevitable next San Francisco earthquake, at which time he will absolutely die if his glasses are broken and he can't get around, so his prepping by fixing his eyes makes sense. Most prepping means your survival on the "oops" scale goes up. The media making fun of anything other than business as usual focuses solely on preppers and total thermonuclear war or zombies or utter economic collapse. People sick of journalists, troll them right back, yah bro I'm prepping for the zombie and alien invasion. In reality, personally I'm very well prepared for legendary blizzards, which makes sense because where I live we get legendary grade "international news story" blizzards perhaps every couple years. Because its very cheap, very easy, and I love my family. But sure, I'd tell a journalist my snow shoes and camping gear are for surviving the thermonuclear winter. Mostly because I hate journalists (just being honest about myself)
  - sjg007 10y ago
    Well... in California when it snows, everyone freaks out. In Minnesota, it's a Monday.
the_duke 10y ago
No but they would survive the collapse of one country and it's economy. (Not saying that this is a smart way to park your money...)
- woofyman 10y ago
  That's only true for countries with small economies. If the US, China, Japan or the Eurozone collapsed, that would plunge the whole world into a depression.
- maxerickson 10y ago
  The number in the ledger will obviously survive, will the value? I mean, say I have some food that I want to trade (not just me, me and my big squad of well armed killers). Are you going to trade instead with the guy who says he has lots of bitcoin?
halomru 10y ago
Bitcoin behaves rather badly under global scale network partitions, or if your global network has a latency of over an hour. But on the other hand it is completely immune to collapse of governments
- cafebabbe 10y ago
  Ha, "completely immune". Good luck accessing your wallet without power plants...
  - mywittyname 10y ago
    Or internet access. It seems like you could commit fraud by traveling to regions without a means to communicate with one-another online and selling them BTCs that were already spent on another network. I bet two people pull that off before those communities ban BTC.
    - usrusr 10y ago
      On the other hand, as long as those communication islands don't reconnect, all those double-spent BTC will be just as good/bad as homemade dollar bills. Bitcoin might be postapocalyptically valuable if the apocalypse in question has hyperinflation at its core, but in a scenario without that it will be inferior even to vintage paper money. The true availability of BTC within a given community is just too much of an uncertainty. What could be a sizable fraction of the amount in active circulation one day could be completely devalued due some early adopter backup going live a day later.
  - halomru 10y ago
    "collapse of government" doesn't have to mean total collapse of infrastructure. Providing infrastructure is harder without government, but if you charge for the infrastructure anyway, you can just increase prices. It's of course a problem for low income workers, but here we are talking about the super rich.
    - che_shirecat 10y ago
drcode 10y ago
To be fair, Bitcoin technically doesn't need a true internet, just an ad-hoc mesh network. (Not that those will be easy to come by, either, but they would be somewhat more feasible to establish.)
- shuntress 10y ago
  What would be the mechanism by which which two previously separate but each fully legitimate (in their own network) ledgers interact? Not trying to poke holes; Just curious. E: To clarify, imagine that the North American Free Peoples Conglomerate and the New China Society finally re-establish contact between the two continents for the first time in hundreds of years. They have each been running fully functional bitcoin networks for generations on their (until now) 100% separated continent-wide networks. Is there any current consideration for combining two block chains? or would this need a new custom solution to handle treating each as a completely separate currency (exchange rates)?
  - vkou 10y ago
    The one burning more electricity on mining new blocks would win, and the other ledger would be invalid, after the point of divergence.
    - LyndsySimon 10y ago
      ... but the individual transactions on the losing chain could would still be valid and could be incorporated into the winning blockchain. It wouldn't be quite a simple as "the shortest chain loses" Oh, and the country with the lowest amount of energy spent mining would win. Both countries hashing after unification would work on the chain with the lowest difficulty, which would be the one with the least hashing power. :)
      - Atheros 10y ago
        You need to read more about how Bitcoin works.
sjg007 10y ago
Well.. Darpa designed arpanet (the precursor) to the internet to persist in the event of a nuclear holocaust. All of those bunkers probably have ham radios (thanks Jon Conner) and redundant internet connections.
- flukus 10y ago
  I was designed to survive a nuclear attack and be able to retaliate, not to survive long term societal collapse.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

ratsbane 10y ago

I've got a titanium spork and some dental floss in my backpack and in the trunk of my car I've got a hi-vis vest, white hard hat, and a two-way radio. Am I missing anything? Are some of these prepper people are missing out on the key concept that to live by your wits you need wits? Or maybe they're aware of that and that's why they stockpile the shotgun shells and dehydrated water capsules...?

JoeAltmaier 10y ago
Wits don't help when the water is all dirty, the food is in cans and the batteries wear out. Especially when other sharp-witted people are in the same situation.
beachstartup 10y ago
if you found yourself in the middle of koreatown during the 1992 LA riots, do you think that stuff in your trunk would get you very far?
- ratsbane 10y ago
  Oh, absolutely not. But I hope my car would.
- 1812Overture 10y ago
  This is why I keep a roof Korean in my trunk.
optimuspaul 10y ago
> dehydrated water capsules Is that a real thing? that sounds like nothing at all.
- cr0sh 10y ago
  No - but there do exist "survival water packets" - you can find them on amazon and elsewhere (basically small pouches of clean water - think ketchup packets, with clean water instead).
10y ago

throwaway2016a 10y ago

> To protect his wife and daughter, he said, “I don’t have guns, but I have a lot of other weaponry. I took classes in archery.” This whole article reads like some surreal parody of what eccentric SV mil/billionaires would do. Although I suppose there is probably some truth that in a post apocalyptic / post rule of law world... the person in the big house with the expensive stuff to loot probably has a huge target on them.

blhack 10y ago
I mean...I guess arrows are reusable and much more easily created by hand than bullets? I guess?
- voidlogic 10y ago
  Post apoc. things like bows and crossbows would be more valuable, but I can't see weapon tech falling much below the 1850s. Its much easier to make a lead ball than an arrow and making blackpower is less about infrastructure than knowledge. I have a replica Remington Model 1858 black power revolver. It shoots lead balls which are easy to make, same with its percussion caps. The kicker is, once loaded, its tactically the same as any modern single action 6 shooter. If things really got bad, I have a heard time imaging my .55 cal muzzle loading flint lock would be out of commission either. I'd save the cross bow for stealth actions and maybe hunting smaller game, for which it would rock. There is also the fact it would take years to burn up all the ammo floating around out there, so this would be gradual.
  - virmundi 10y ago
    I've played pirates with real flint lock pistols that still sparked. They were old than the US. Really, they should never had allowed college students to run around a refurb'ed castle without a supervisor.
  - manarth 10y ago
    I can't see weapon tech falling much below the 1850s. I can imagine short-term or more localised effects. The USA could be viewed as an outlier, given the amount of gun-ownership: 22% of the population (and as some people own many guns, the total number of guns is more than 1 gun per person). By comparison, less than 1% of the UK population own a gun. So in some countries, there may be guns around for the taking, but in other countries, those guns will be in the hands of very few people. I'd imagine a period of a year or so where more primitive weaponry took precedence, during which we would have to relearn how to make tools, weapons and ammo without the benefit of technically advanced manufacturing.

agiamas 10y ago

reddit may be valued at 600 million (orl?) but steve huffman's net worth is in the millions/tens of millions at most. you wouldn't call him super rich when he can barely afford a nice house in Palo Alto :)

che_shirecat 10y ago
don't understand the downvotes -> he's worth $5-10m at most, chump change in SV
rjeli 10y ago
Agree, "super-rich" makes me think of Zuckerberg, Saudi princes, Russian oligarchs, etc. - "buy a yacht because you're bored" types.

dhc_tech 10y ago

Seems like fallout shelters...where do I apply to be an overseer?

ogsharkman 10y ago
Right this way, just step into this decontamination pod

ucaetano 10y ago

I grew up in a 3rd world small farm, raising pigs, chicken, setting traps and planting a bunch of stuff, not to mention a light version of WROL (without rule of law). Reading this article I feel that I'm more prepared for the apocalypse than all the "super-rich"...

nickpsecurity 10y ago
You and all of us that lived in rural areas learning to survive on the land, cooperate with neighbors, and fight off trouble-makers. Such people will probably do better than most.
mywittyname 10y ago
Because you absolutely are. I've always thought that anybody who seriously thinks society is going to collapse should just move to a developing country, buy a farm, and get-on getting-on. Because there's really no way to prepare other than to get started on your post-collapse life. I grew up on a farm in very rural USA and we often face mini-"disasters". The roads would be impassable due to snow, power would go out for weeks sometimes. My life has shown me that you don't prepare for disasters, you just do without. You're cold, hungry, and miserable. Guns and ammo doesn't help because there's nothing really to hunt, same goes for fishing (most people don't live within walking distance of a non-polluted waterway). Better not get too attached to electricity or driving because it's going to be impossible to store any significant amount of fuel. A collapsed society resembles rural Afghanistan or India more than it does whatever wild west these people are imagining.
- ucaetano 10y ago
  > we often face mini-"disasters" True! I remember one time when our transformer blew up, and we lived for several weeks without electricity until we got a replacement. Nothing like listening to the world cup on a battery-powered radio. Fun times!
jly 10y ago
I agree with this, too. Most of the super rich have wealth and resources that matter in a stable global capitalistic economy/society, but these will have no value with the breakdown of that system. The truly important skills, post-disaster, will be those needed to survive without civilization. The ones that survive will be those that already have those skills or are quick to adapt, AND are physically located in areas with enough resources to survive.

Zikes 10y ago

> I own a couple of motorcycles. I have a bunch of guns and ammo. Food. I figure that, with that, I can hole up in my house for some amount of time. Revealing the location of your supplies cache is one of the biggest mistakes you can make, in such a scenario. Desperate people now know where to go to find such things.

bambax 10y ago

I was afraid this article was going to upset me, but in fact it doesn't shy away from the more difficult questions, namely A/ the reason we're "skating on really thin cultural ice right now" is in no small part due to the emergence and dominance of social media, so it's quite rich that the people responsible for chaos are trying to protect themselves from it B/ it's quite morally repugnant to want to survive alone if society collapses C/ it's completely impractical because you can't survive alone for very long ("are you taking your pilot's family with you? What about the maintenance guys?")

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
Karunamon 10y ago
Would you elaborate on B a bit? I don't quite see the moral value judgment in surviving while society collapses.
- bambax 10y ago
  Everyone is part of society. If society "collapses" (which can take many forms), the responsible, respectable reaction is to stay with it and try to restore it, not cut it loose -- retract to a shelter somewhere with "lots of guns and ammo" to wait it out. When disaster strikes it may be very natural and expected to save oneself, if possible. That's survival instinct. But prepare for it is not admirable, to say the least. It's being selfish with intent. Max Levchin says this in the article "It’s one of the few things about Silicon Valley that I actively dislike—the sense that we are superior giants who move the needle and, even if it’s our own failure, must be spared."
  - Karunamon 10y ago
    But at the end of the day, you're not restoring anything if you're dead due to lack of food, water, or shelter, or violent action by someone else. That's what's confusing me about your view, here. There's a reason these basics are at the very base of Maslow's hierarchy[1], and that's because without them, such niceties as polite society aren't possible. It would be foolish to not concentrate on having the basics available. 1: http://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow-pyramid.jpg http://www.simplypsychology.org/maslow-pyramid.jpg

doikor 10y ago

I really don't see a scenario working where you pay money to someone to protect you in a doomsday scenario working. The guard is the guy with the guns (and the training to use them). Why would the guard not just kill you/kick you out of the secure place once shit hits the fan?

rubidium 10y ago
From the article: One of the guests was skeptical, Dugger said. “He leaned forward and asked, ‘Are you taking your pilot’s family, too? And what about the maintenance guys? If revolutionaries are kicking in doors, how many of the people in your life will you have to take with you?’ The questioning continued. In the end, most agreed they couldn’t run.”
- FabHK 10y ago
  You could learn to fly the plane. You only need to use it once, out. No more maintenance needed after. Now, I disagree with this whole "preppers" mindset, but I think some of the practical problems could be overcome.
science4sail 10y ago
It's like one of the sayings in A Song of Ice and Fire: A swordsman receives conflicting orders from a king, merchant, and priest. Actual power lies with the swordsman, everything else is just an illusion brought about by societal convention.

che_shirecat 10y ago

>He is less focussed on a specific threat Call me a nit, but why are there typos in an article from the new yorker? Edit: apparently doubling the consonant is something they just do - http://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/the-double-l http://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/the-double-l

DanBC 10y ago
Focussed is an acceptable, although unusual, spelling variant.
TetOn 10y ago
Indeed, cf cöoperation and etc... in their pages.
mintone 10y ago
Are you focussing on the word 'focussed'? That is a correct spelling of the word and if memory serves, the New Yorker have written about how their style guide requires it.
1812Overture 10y ago
The New Yorker intentionally uses a bunch of archaic spelling and grammar to look smart despite the often mediocre content of what they're saying.

ttepasse 10y ago

So. You're not one of the 0.1%. Society "collapsed", whatever than means. You did go through hardship, hunger, lack of Instagram, pain, loss of loved ones, loss of property but also amazing feats of solidarity and human compassion. It still doesn't really look OK and you're daily mourning the life you and society lost. Then there lands a Gulfstream, out climbs a well fed billionaire straight out his fancy bunker. There's a street lamp nearby and a little bit of rope could be found..

nickff 10y ago
Envy does not justify murder. Most modern philosophers have taken the view that envy itself is immoral.
- woofyman 10y ago
  >Envy does not justify murder In a post apocalyptic society it's kill or be killed.
  - JoeAltmaier 10y ago
    In a sense. The size of the group matters - inside the group you have trusted allies. Two foragers are safer than one; three are safer than two. And so one.
- ucaetano 10y ago
  Try to explain that to a hungry crowd watching your well-fed family leaving a bunker. "Oh please, what you're doing is morally wrong. Shame on you!"
  - nickff 10y ago
    I'm not saying that immorality alone will stop many people, but your rationale proves too much, and would stop you from intervening in any immoral act.
ucaetano 10y ago

Alex3917 10y ago

So this is actually something I've thought a lot about, in terms of whether it's actually rational to be a prepper or if it's just a fun hobby. In nominal terms, your risk of dying in a society-wide collapse is actually larger than your risk of dying in a car accident.[1] So if you wouldn't think twice about taking basic steps to lower your chances of vehicle death (e.g. wearing a seatbelt) then it's absolutely rational to be at least concerned about your risk of dying in the apocalypse. However, in absolute terms your risk of dying in the apocalypse is still considerably smaller than the most common causes of death. Given that only 1.2% of Americans meet all 7 guidelines for good cardiovascular health[2], being a prepper probably has negative returns unless you already have enough money to access safe food and healthcare, you're meeting all the guidelines for good cardiovascular health, you don't have any neglected mental health issues, etc. [1] http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/04/a-human-extinction-isnt-that-unlikely/480444/ http://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2016/04/a-huma... [2] https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22427615 https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22427615

blahshaw 10y ago
I'm really curious what those guidelines are. I don't see them listed in that link.
- Alex3917 10y ago
  http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/243071.php http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/243071.php That's the tl;dr version. For each of those bullet points there is obviously some nuance, e.g. knowing how much exercise counts as being physically active.
LyndsySimon 10y ago
I did some math on my end too - I decided that at my weight, I was more likely to die or experience a great reduction in quality of life due to complications incidental to obesity than anything else. As a result, I'm focused on dropping weight and getting healthier before anything else :)

jps359 10y ago

So did I miss the boat on getting rich off of selling survivalist gear?

ryandrake 10y ago
Survivalism, prepping, militias, whatever you call it now, is pretty much just Military Cosplay. It's just another hobby for people with disposable income. Instead of golf clubs they're spending it on AR-15s, bunkers, and canned food.
- Arizhel 10y ago
  Well at least the canned food can just be eaten eventually, so it's not really a waste.

dmode 10y ago

Having grown up in poverty in a third world country that is extremely chaotic, the doomsday obsession in America is laughable and a little disturbing at the same time. Society doesn't break down like that. Can someone explain why is there such paranoia in the US about societal collapse ? It it video games, movies, media frenzy, hyper partisan politics ? All of it ? I know people who have created bunkers and stock pilled food to prepare for apocalypse. Seriously !!

jly 10y ago
We have an even-increasing supply of dangerous nuclear weapons on this planet, and no short supply of individuals who may want to use them. I can envision a lot of scenarios from that which could lead to societal breakdown.
- maxerickson 10y ago
  The number of nuclear weapons peaked ~30 years ago and has declined precipitously since then: https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:US_and_USSR_nuclear_stockpiles.svg#/media/File:US_and_USSR_nuclear_stockpiles.svg https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:US_and_USSR_nuclear_... (that other countries now have warheads doesn't make up much of the difference: http://www.icanw.org/the-facts/nuclear-arsenals/ http://www.icanw.org/the-facts/nuclear-arsenals/ )
vkou 10y ago
The wost-case scenario is civil war - in which case society very much does break down like that. Things will have to get much worse before that outcome is likely, though.
woofyman 10y ago
Most of it is due to Fundamental Christian beliefs along with extreme right wing political beliefs.
- Alex3917 10y ago
  > Most of it is due to Fundamental Christian beliefs along with extreme right wing political beliefs. I haven't read the methodology, but supposedly over 40% of Americans believe the rapture is coming by 2050. And the rapture and the apocalypse should be mutually exclusive, in the sense that if you really think Jesus is going to save you then there isn't much reason to be stockpiling cans of spaghettios.

awfgylbcxhrey 10y ago

we are skating on really thin cultural ice right now. Nope. Not even close. We survived the Civil Rights movement and Vietnam War protests. For all our online angst and whining, we're not even 1/10th as far toward the tipping point as we were back then.

sodafountan 10y ago
Not to mention a Civil War, World War II and the Cold War. I think we'll all be alright.
- infinite8s 10y ago
  Those were all human-created events. What happens when we have a super-volcano eruption and the world has another mini-ice age, and there are famines across the globe? Or the coastal flooding that is predicted to happen by 2050 if we continue current warming trends. We can't just force nature to give up through a superior show of force (unlike winning a war).
  - vkou 10y ago
    Coastal flooding would largely be economic damage - mostly distributed to a small segment of the population, not societal collapse. Food shortages caused by climate change, on the other hand...
- mschaef 10y ago
  By taking such a sweeping view, you're glossing over a lot of individual suffering. Even if we're better off now than prior to WW2, the >50MM casualties of that war would probably disagree.
disordinary 10y ago
The difference is that those protests were steps in the right direction, what we're seeing now is a step backwards.

gloriasuziekim 10y ago

Let's be real- this article is more a lifestyle piece on the excessively prepared, i.e. type A, silicon valley super achievers. Apparently, this is an article about these folks who have their shit together so far ahead the rest of us, that this otherwise genius for productivity goes into form of deranged overdrive. Let's also look at this article's source, the New Yorker, as a vicarious observer and critic of anything that veers off their path of caring/obsessing about depresssing novelists/filmmaker s and actors, fashion, and all things analogue as the solution to the salvation of the light of humanity and culture, of which they perceive themselves as the clear torchbearers.

jly 10y ago

> The fears vary, but many worry that, as artificial intelligence takes away a growing share of jobs, there will be a backlash against Silicon Valley, America’s second-highest concentration of wealth. (Southwestern Connecticut is first.) “I’ve heard this theme from a bunch of people,” Hoffman said. “Is the country going to turn against the wealthy? Is it going to turn against technological innovation? Is it going to turn into civil disorder?” This is already happening and I would expect it to get worse. We have a chance now to develop policies that will help mitigate the negative effects, if we choose to.

infinite8s 10y ago
The current policy proposals being floated since the election are moving in the opposite direction to mitigating those effects.

gloriasuziekim 10y ago

And what's up with the beefed up security guy with a kalishnakov who looks like he's some steroid version of Neal Stephenson? At least they got their marketing for this article right.

vkou 10y ago

It amuses me greatly that Peter Thiel is listed as one of the people who will bug out if things turn bad. I suppose that's the backup plan when his libertarian utopia doesn't work out?

infinite8s 10y ago
That's part of the libertarian ethos. To each his own...
flukus 10y ago
Doesn't he get entry to whatever presidential compound there is?
disordinary 10y ago
It's also funny that he's holding up in NZ which sits way off to the left politically when compared to the US. I guess no government is good, until you want a place to stay when society breaks down.

omegaworks 10y ago

Glamor-prepping, glepping: the ultimate fuck-you-I-got-mine to any young people still struggling to come up in the society that these wealthy people wield an undue influence over. What happens when everybody at the top has their private island sanctuary but still holds power in the society we all have to live in?

infinite8s 10y ago
How will they enforce that power? It will either require humans (of a different social status) or robotic weapons/mercenaries.
- omegaworks 10y ago
  I wasn't speaking to what happens after (some hypothetical nonsense) collapse happens, but what's happening now. Resources invested in creating these bubbles are resources not invested in the wider economy. What if that $mil you spent building a bunker to hide from the future could have been the $mil that funded the battery tech that saved that future?

fallingfrog 10y ago

How many paid people does it take to maintain these huge compounds?? These people don't seem to understand that all of their wealth and possessions only belong to them because there is a big organized power system that says so, with lawyers and cops with guns and people that are required to obtain cash money every month. 5 seconds after things go south, that helicopter belongs to the pilot, not to you. That land you're buying belongs to the person standing on it. If you're really afraid of the apocalypse, then stock up on the only things that will matter afterwards: friends and family, real relationships not based on money. That and some hand tools and guns.

1812Overture 10y ago
I think this is what a lot of libertarian types don't get (a lot of overlap with prepper types). Taxes aren't the government stealing money that you willed into existence out of thin air, you're paying to live in a society built to protect your wealth.
- zeveb 10y ago
  > Taxes aren't the government stealing money that you willed into existence out of thin air, you're paying to live in a society built to protect your wealth. Well, the Mafia do protect businesses which pay them protection money, too. Sure, you have a (single) vote for a few legislators and an executive at the state and federal levels to influence the IRS, but the influence of your vote is probably less than your shared humanity is an influence on a don's enforcers. There's a question of the extent to which the government's (or the Mafia's) taxation is commensurate with the services it renders, but they're equally involuntary. (and yes, government is necessary, and preferable to lawlessness; that doesn't mean that everything it does is right, nor does it mean that it's voluntary, any more than the execution of a convict who doesn't physically fight every step to the gallows is voluntary)
- malandrew 10y ago
  Some taxes are useful (roads, justice system, police, some defense, etc). Many taxes however are simply theft. The only way taxes are fair is when it impacts everyone. When a tax takes money from one group for the benefit of the other, it's theft. A universal consumption tax is about the only thing that is fair as it's proportional to gains and gains are generally (albeitly imperfectly) proportional to shared infrastructure built, maintained and defended using taxes. Unless the additional revenue benefits everyone, it's hard to increase.

Nokinside 10y ago

Super-rich don't seem to understand that if the society collapses, only individualism that exists is rugged individualism. Hiding int he bunker might work for some time, but it would be life of fear. Individuals don't survive alone. It's the tribe, village and family that ensures survival. Best way to survive would be to connect into some tight knit community, where people who know and trust other take care of each other. If you have plenty and someone is starving, you share and bond or you fight. Here is better survival strategy for Silicon Valley billionaire: Build hidden storage bunker in the middle of Amish country. Fill it with all the community needs in doomsday, medicine, spare parts, tools and simple food. When doomsday happens, invite all your neighbors to share while you study bible and become important member in your community.

floatboth 10y ago

> “If I had a billion dollars, I wouldn’t buy a bunker,” Elli Kaplan, the C.E.O. of the digital health startup Neurotrack, told me. “I would reinvest in civil society and civil innovation. My view is you figure out even smarter ways to make sure that something terrible doesn’t happen.” At least there's one reasonable person in this circus. Also: https://youtu.be/XanyPq5BcoA?t=52m18s https://youtu.be/XanyPq5BcoA?t=52m18s

Atheros 10y ago
So I take it that neither you nor Elli Kaplan have home insurance?

ericzawo 10y ago

Isn't Sam Altman stockpiling gold and weapons?

onmobiletemp 10y ago

Wow, what a well written article. Usually i immediatley close an article that uses the annoying "journalism as a narrative" method, in which the author spends pages and pages going through their own useless internal ruminations and observations before getting to actual reporting and analysis. But this author did it in a way that i found quite agreeable. Such great writing. Anyway, these people are insane. Its hilarious to see some wealthy, liberal hedge fund manager consider with complete seriousness the prospect that donald trump will turn out to be a ruthless dictator. It is something that many liberal people are doing now -- comedically grave comparisons to hitler and concentration camps abound on the left. Werent these people around in 2008 when the right went through the exact same hysteria? Cant they look at the videos of right wingers furiously assering that obama was a muslim terrorist and see themselves?

FullMtlAlcoholc 10y ago

I don't understand why this is so weird. History is filled with chapters of societal wanton and rampant violence. It could be a class struggle like the French Revolution, deep seated ethno/racial enmity like the Rwandan Genocide, or some psychopathic asshole gains power, blames a helpless and pitiful group of so-called 'depraved deviants' for the entirety of his nation-state's problems, curses at the president of the US, and decides to deputize the entire nation as modern day Judge Dredd's with full authority as judge, jury, and executioner. Yes, even in the 21st century, (although this is in the Philippines, this shows what humans are capable of given certain conditions), you can kill someone if they are suspected of using drugs and Duerte will give you a medal. The astute among you can see that you can kill any person, sprinkle some crack on them, and not only will there be absolutely no investigation, you will be regarded as a patriot and a hero. It seems that if you kill a poor person, absolutely no one cares. This is one of the first major purchases I would make and I do have a rather large emergency kit should disaster strike. Like me, they're in California along a known fault line way overdue for a major earthquake. Unlike these "smart" execs, I'd hone my survival skills. I'm not overly concerned about a 21st century peasant revolt, but we live in an area where it's not a matter of if, but when a major disaster will strike. If people are without electricity and running water for an extended period of time and/or there is a breakdown in security (police, national guard, etc.), it gets ugly quick. For example, in Los Angeles, there was a mentally ill person who threatened to jump off of an overpass on the 405 (possibly the world's busiest freeway). His antics caused such a slowdown in traffic, the freeway became a literal parking lot for a few hours. Because a man inconvenienced their time, people began to goad him into killing himself saying things like "What are you waiting for you fucking pussy, get it over with!!!" This wasn't one person, a significant part of the traffic jam was saying this or wishing it. When you are malnourished and/or dehydrated, you lose compassion and reason, gain paranoia, and become more focused on your own survival. For people with such resources this is like paying a few pennies for apocalypse insurance.

bootload 10y ago

“I typically ask people, ‘So you’re worried about the pitchforks. How much money have you donated to your local homeless shelter?’ This connects the most, in my mind, to the realities of the income gap. All the other forms of fear that people bring up are artificial.” I like Max Levchins idea behind this statement. The underlying anxiety shown by a lot of the characters interviewed in this article display a real human dis-connect. There is nothing in the US (and other countries for that matter) that cannot be fixed with hard work, a bit of luck and investment in the right things. Maybe that is the real eye-opener. One of the things I have observed, in crisis the way individuals act, reflects their mental state. "The growing foreign appetite for New Zealand property has generated a backlash. The Campaign Against Foreign Control of Aotearoa—the Maori name for New Zealand—opposes sales to foreigners." NZ, a colonised country with a treaty, has all the same problems the US has in terms of inequity. Way more tribal and dangerous than the tourist brochures suggest. "The original silo of Hall’s complex was built by the Army Corps of Engineers to withstand a nuclear strike." The traces of hydrazine (H4N2), you get for nothing. ~ https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2016-09/documents/hydrazine.pdf https://www.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2016-09/documents...

bootload 10y ago
another example: "Hawaiians call Mark Zuckerberg 'the face of neocolonialism' over land lawsuits" https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jan/23/mark-zuckerberg-hawaii-land-lawsuits-kauai-estate https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jan/23/mark-zuck... Bode well to get on with the local tribe with goodwill instead of using the blunt violence of the (questionable) law.
- bootload 10y ago
  "“Based on feedback from the local community we are reconsidering the quiet title process and discussing how to move forward,” Zuckerberg said in a statement. Hawaiians call Mark Zuckerberg 'the face of neocolonialism' over land lawsuits “We want to make sure we are following a process that protects the interests of property owners, respects the traditions of native Hawaiians and preserves the environment.”" 3 day reversal ~ https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jan/26/mark-zuckerberg-reconsiders-forcing-hawaiians-to-sell-him-their-land https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2017/jan/26/mark-zuck...

nikdaheratik 10y ago

For some reason, this made me think more of medieval castles, with Nuclear Silo condos replacing King Ludwig's mansions instead. I suppose they figure they won't need to add a courtyard for the peasants until after things settle down a bit.

ENTP 10y ago

If doomsday comes, at least we should get to meet John Titor.

dkarapetyan 10y ago

Either these folks truly don't understand how interdependent modern society is or the article cherry picked sound bites to make them look like idiots. Instead of investing in strengthening the institutions that made their way of life possible these idiots are trying to sequester themselves. It is sad that we have allowed morons to such high ranks of power. The only sensible voices in the entire article are Levchin and Johnson.

FabHK 10y ago
Agreed, "no man is an island". On a related note, I was appalled by the howls and outcries against Obama's (entirely sensible, if maybe easily misunderstood) "you didn't build that". (Related discussion in the "Don't tell your friends they're lucky" article/thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13437332 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13437332 )
- Apocryphon 10y ago
  The War Nerd explains why survivalist individualism is overrated and false: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13484925 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13484925
  - FabHK 10y ago
    Nothing (except a header) seem to show up under that link?

Apocryphon 10y ago

Pretty good idea from the MeFi discussion: 'It's cute to see the whole "I'm going to buy a home in New Zealand! Full of canned goods! And a helicopter pad!" Realistically, though, for the money they could do a lot better. Go buy an entire block in Detroit, rehab all the houses, rent them at below-market rates to folks who need help. There's your "militia."'