5 ms·

I don't agree with Peter Thiel often but I do agree with his quote mentioned in the article - SF is "structurally hostile to families." As someone who is tryin

by brd529 10y ago

I don't agree with Peter Thiel often but I do agree with his quote mentioned in the article - SF is "structurally hostile to families." As someone who is trying to raise school-age kids in San Francsico the insanity of the school lottery process is one of the greatest problems. We have so many friends who drive an extra hour every morning to take their kids to their algorithmically chosen school across the city. This when there is a great school in walking distance. Don't get me started on Algebra. SF school district has banned algebra in middle schools. My happiest friends with kids in the city home-school. Public transportation is OK for adults, but if you have more than one kid good luck. That's why you see in this report that parents with kids are driving everywhere. And of course, space. Since SF won't build, there is no space. The parks are great, the playgrounds are great. Most neighborhoods give you everything you need in walking distance: park, playground, library, grocery. Except schools. You're going to drive past your local school to get to the "fairly chosen" one. We had three candidates running for school board who supported neighborhood schools and an end to this madness. They all lost.

cesarbs 10y ago
> SF school district has banned algebra in middle schools. WTF? What's their rationale?
- yoloswagins 10y ago
  While this article on [1] priceonomics covers the issue really well, the given reason is to ensure all kids enter highschool at the same level. [1] https://priceonomics.com/why-did-san-francisco-schools-stop-teaching/ https://priceonomics.com/why-did-san-francisco-schools-stop-...
  - cesarbs 10y ago
    Ugh. So sad. Essentially disincentivizing higher performing kids from getting ahead. Hope I never have to deal with that in our school district.
    - vixen99 10y ago
      I somehow doubt they've banned it in Singapore, Korea, Taiwan or China.
  - kelnos 10y ago
    That's the most idiotic thing I've ever heard. When I entered high school (central Maryland), I already had two years of algebra under my belt, which allowed me to jump ahead in HS, which then allowed me to jump ahead in college and take more advanced courses than someone who had to start from the beginning would have had time for. This is ridiculously short-sighted.
    - kgwgk 10y ago
      You're proving their point: you had an "unfair" advantage.
    - adrianN 10y ago
      No child left behind means no child gets ahead.
      - kelvin0 10y ago
        Yes, this makes me think of the idiotic laws in the Province of Quebec which don't allow parents to send their kids to English public schools. The only exception is if at least one parent did attends English public school (which is a minority of the population). Of course, sending your kids to a English private school is always possible ($$$). So, you have a whole bunch of kids whose parents were immigrants and learned to speak french and go to english school (becoming bilingual, or better). But, the white french majority of the population is mostly uni lingual because this opportunity of english immersion in school is not accessible to them publicly by law. Talk about no child getting ahead ... Learning english used to be seen as a cultural threat in French Quebec (long time ago), and trying to protect the French language ends up screwing most of the population stuck in 1 language with all the economic, financial and political ramifications of such ridiculous laws.
    - eva1984 10y ago
      Same. This is precisely the wrong way to approach equality: make everyone equally poor. Education is to educate people, why would SF's authority feel the need to regulate what and how much amount people should be educated? This feels so authoritarian for a city that is branded for liberalism.
- tzs 10y ago
  They did not ban algebra in middle schools. They adopted a program that follows the Common Core math sequence, which moves about 40% of what used to be in 8th grade algebra to high school algebra. It also adds some things to middle school that used to be later, if at all, such as statistics and geometry. The whole sequence, from kindergarten through high school, can be seen here: http://www.corestandards.org/Math/ http://www.corestandards.org/Math/
  - jessaustin 10y ago
    Very educational link. We're holding back the third of students who certainly should be "creating and rearranging equations" in 7th grade (frankly, who should have been doing so in 5th grade, if decent teachers had been available), for whose benefit? The middle third who will struggle to do so in 11th grade, or the other third who will never even attempt it? Then we wonder why "STEM" employers are always trying to import labor from overseas. One doubts those workers are coming from schools that assume all children are equally talented.
zeroer 10y ago
> SF school district has banned algebra in middle schools. Surely there are some kids who don't learn it in elementary school. Are they supposed to wait until high school?
- spullara 10y ago
  My kids started algebra in elementary school as well. This is pathetic.
  - Void_ 10y ago
    Haha, I'm from Central Europe and I competed in Maths Olympics since I was like 10. (Its a competition mostly in central/eastern europe). This was around 2000 and we didnt have internet at home yet. So there was nothing better to do. Little worried about future generations. But this is really pathetic. to ban algebra. I would leave the country.
    - vostok 10y ago
      > But this is really pathetic. to ban algebra. I would leave the country. If mathematics education at the pre-university level is a priority for you then I'm not sure that leaving the country is the best approach. https://www.imo-official.org/year_country_r.aspx?year=2016 https://www.imo-official.org/year_country_r.aspx?year=2016
      - throw123142 10y ago
        Elite results do not say much about average education. UK also scored high on olympiad, but average UK public school is much worse compared to Central Europe.
        adrianN 10y ago
        It's a question about what you want to optimize for. I believe that societies need elites for progress. People who can really push things forward tend to be those with the highest innate ability who happen to have an education that pushes them to the limits of their ability. Optimizing schools to raise the minimum or the average education level seems to have the effect that the maximum suffers. There are great arguments why you'd want to raise the average education level, but I think sacrificing the best minds to this cause is short-sighted.
iaw 10y ago
Peter Thiel is brilliantly observant and often makes correct observations, it's the conclusions he draws afterwards that I find to be specious.
- maxxxxx 10y ago
  Making observations is much easier than coming up with solutions. Marx's analysis of capitalism was right on too.
  - api 10y ago
    ... as was Ayn Rand's analysis of authoritarian socialism and communism. Pointing out flaws, contradictions, and systematic shortcomings is so easy that I've lost a great deal of respect for it. Solutions are hard, and "magic happens here" is not a solution.
krupan 10y ago
Wait. Your kid is assigned a school across town and it's up to you to get them there (no school bus)? What if you just can't?
- ransom1538 10y ago
  SF parent here. The original idea was to mix up the student diversity. Poor kids would sometimes attend schools in expensive school distracts - Kids from expensive neighborhoods would attend poorer schools. Hilariously not thought through. (just like rent control). All that actually happened was the rich kids yanked their children out of public school, the "in the middle parents" put their kids into catholic school (which is 1/5 the cost of private here). The poor kids then had to beg their parents to get across the city -- WHICH THE PARENTS could not. What a mess.
  - equalarrow 10y ago
    Also, the rich folks get a place in the poorer neighborhoods (we've talked to people that just pay an additional rent and don't even move there) which then gets them their first choice.
  - tlogan 10y ago
    Exactly. And the poor kids are the one which end up suffering the most since they are mainly single parent families and/or they really do not have time driving kids around.
- equalarrow 10y ago
  Yes, the city got rid of school buses. BUT, they still keep the different morning start times left over from bussing. Some schools start at 7:30, some 8:15, some 9 - these are all things you have to consider when picking your lottery list. Just for the record, we picked 30 schools and spent oct & nov touring schools. The system is ridiculous and a failed experiment in my mind.
- Decade 10y ago
  Just suck it up. http://www.sfusd.edu/en/enroll-in-sfusd-schools/how-student-assignment-works/placement-appeals.html http://www.sfusd.edu/en/enroll-in-sfusd-schools/how-student-... I see kids being transported by grandparents or carpooling with another parent who has space.
robterrell 10y ago
> Don't get me started on Algebra. SF school district has banned algebra in middle schools WTF? Got a link?

by brd529 10y ago

cesarbs 10y ago

> SF school district has banned algebra in middle schools. WTF? What's their rationale?

yoloswagins 10y ago
While this article on [1] priceonomics covers the issue really well, the given reason is to ensure all kids enter highschool at the same level. [1] https://priceonomics.com/why-did-san-francisco-schools-stop-teaching/ https://priceonomics.com/why-did-san-francisco-schools-stop-...
- cesarbs 10y ago
  Ugh. So sad. Essentially disincentivizing higher performing kids from getting ahead. Hope I never have to deal with that in our school district.
  - vixen99 10y ago
    I somehow doubt they've banned it in Singapore, Korea, Taiwan or China.
- kelnos 10y ago
  That's the most idiotic thing I've ever heard. When I entered high school (central Maryland), I already had two years of algebra under my belt, which allowed me to jump ahead in HS, which then allowed me to jump ahead in college and take more advanced courses than someone who had to start from the beginning would have had time for. This is ridiculously short-sighted.
  - kgwgk 10y ago
    You're proving their point: you had an "unfair" advantage.
  - adrianN 10y ago
    No child left behind means no child gets ahead.
    - kelvin0 10y ago
      Yes, this makes me think of the idiotic laws in the Province of Quebec which don't allow parents to send their kids to English public schools. The only exception is if at least one parent did attends English public school (which is a minority of the population). Of course, sending your kids to a English private school is always possible ($$$). So, you have a whole bunch of kids whose parents were immigrants and learned to speak french and go to english school (becoming bilingual, or better). But, the white french majority of the population is mostly uni lingual because this opportunity of english immersion in school is not accessible to them publicly by law. Talk about no child getting ahead ... Learning english used to be seen as a cultural threat in French Quebec (long time ago), and trying to protect the French language ends up screwing most of the population stuck in 1 language with all the economic, financial and political ramifications of such ridiculous laws.
  - eva1984 10y ago
    Same. This is precisely the wrong way to approach equality: make everyone equally poor. Education is to educate people, why would SF's authority feel the need to regulate what and how much amount people should be educated? This feels so authoritarian for a city that is branded for liberalism.
tzs 10y ago
They did not ban algebra in middle schools. They adopted a program that follows the Common Core math sequence, which moves about 40% of what used to be in 8th grade algebra to high school algebra. It also adds some things to middle school that used to be later, if at all, such as statistics and geometry. The whole sequence, from kindergarten through high school, can be seen here: http://www.corestandards.org/Math/ http://www.corestandards.org/Math/
- jessaustin 10y ago
  Very educational link. We're holding back the third of students who certainly should be "creating and rearranging equations" in 7th grade (frankly, who should have been doing so in 5th grade, if decent teachers had been available), for whose benefit? The middle third who will struggle to do so in 11th grade, or the other third who will never even attempt it? Then we wonder why "STEM" employers are always trying to import labor from overseas. One doubts those workers are coming from schools that assume all children are equally talented.

zeroer 10y ago

> SF school district has banned algebra in middle schools. Surely there are some kids who don't learn it in elementary school. Are they supposed to wait until high school?

spullara 10y ago
My kids started algebra in elementary school as well. This is pathetic.
- Void_ 10y ago
  Haha, I'm from Central Europe and I competed in Maths Olympics since I was like 10. (Its a competition mostly in central/eastern europe). This was around 2000 and we didnt have internet at home yet. So there was nothing better to do. Little worried about future generations. But this is really pathetic. to ban algebra. I would leave the country.
  - vostok 10y ago
    > But this is really pathetic. to ban algebra. I would leave the country. If mathematics education at the pre-university level is a priority for you then I'm not sure that leaving the country is the best approach. https://www.imo-official.org/year_country_r.aspx?year=2016 https://www.imo-official.org/year_country_r.aspx?year=2016
    - throw123142 10y ago
      Elite results do not say much about average education. UK also scored high on olympiad, but average UK public school is much worse compared to Central Europe.
      - adrianN 10y ago
        It's a question about what you want to optimize for. I believe that societies need elites for progress. People who can really push things forward tend to be those with the highest innate ability who happen to have an education that pushes them to the limits of their ability. Optimizing schools to raise the minimum or the average education level seems to have the effect that the maximum suffers. There are great arguments why you'd want to raise the average education level, but I think sacrificing the best minds to this cause is short-sighted.

iaw 10y ago

Peter Thiel is brilliantly observant and often makes correct observations, it's the conclusions he draws afterwards that I find to be specious.

maxxxxx 10y ago
Making observations is much easier than coming up with solutions. Marx's analysis of capitalism was right on too.
- api 10y ago
  ... as was Ayn Rand's analysis of authoritarian socialism and communism. Pointing out flaws, contradictions, and systematic shortcomings is so easy that I've lost a great deal of respect for it. Solutions are hard, and "magic happens here" is not a solution.

krupan 10y ago

Wait. Your kid is assigned a school across town and it's up to you to get them there (no school bus)? What if you just can't?

ransom1538 10y ago
SF parent here. The original idea was to mix up the student diversity. Poor kids would sometimes attend schools in expensive school distracts - Kids from expensive neighborhoods would attend poorer schools. Hilariously not thought through. (just like rent control). All that actually happened was the rich kids yanked their children out of public school, the "in the middle parents" put their kids into catholic school (which is 1/5 the cost of private here). The poor kids then had to beg their parents to get across the city -- WHICH THE PARENTS could not. What a mess.
- equalarrow 10y ago
  Also, the rich folks get a place in the poorer neighborhoods (we've talked to people that just pay an additional rent and don't even move there) which then gets them their first choice.
- tlogan 10y ago
  Exactly. And the poor kids are the one which end up suffering the most since they are mainly single parent families and/or they really do not have time driving kids around.
equalarrow 10y ago
Yes, the city got rid of school buses. BUT, they still keep the different morning start times left over from bussing. Some schools start at 7:30, some 8:15, some 9 - these are all things you have to consider when picking your lottery list. Just for the record, we picked 30 schools and spent oct & nov touring schools. The system is ridiculous and a failed experiment in my mind.
Decade 10y ago
Just suck it up. http://www.sfusd.edu/en/enroll-in-sfusd-schools/how-student-assignment-works/placement-appeals.html http://www.sfusd.edu/en/enroll-in-sfusd-schools/how-student-... I see kids being transported by grandparents or carpooling with another parent who has space.

robterrell 10y ago

> Don't get me started on Algebra. SF school district has banned algebra in middle schools WTF? Got a link?