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TLDR: even if we removed drug offenses from prison AND all the black population from prisons, the US would STILL have a HUGE prison population compared to any w

TLDR: even if we removed drug offenses from prison AND all the black population from prisons, the US would STILL have a HUGE prison population compared to any western country. Why? Because from the 1980s all branches, police, judges and legislators have together increased sentences for all crimes. A LOT. Probably needlessly if going by recidivism.

bilbo0s 10y ago
It was also a surprise, to me at least, that even if you released all of the people in jail for drug offenses, it would really only affect certain black demographics. That's something I hadn't realized. Basically a HUGE affect on the number of blacks in prison, but almost no affect on the number of whites and latinos in prison. And whites and latinos are overrepresented in the prison population in a relatively draconian way compared to Europe. (Just not as overrepresented as blacks. I'm assuming because of the asymmetry in enforcement of drug laws.) So we are using these sentencing laws to send EVERYONE to prison for a long time, regardless of the crime. It makes me wonder how many crimes actually land you in prison? Probably some things I don't even know about will put you there.
- hackermailman 10y ago
  Texas Tribune keeps stats on their state prisons https://www.texastribune.org/library/data/texas-prisons/ https://www.texastribune.org/library/data/texas-prisons/ Seems to be mainly robbery, drug possession and drunk driving convictions.
  - John23832 10y ago
    A drunk driving conviction is a drunk driving conviction... I'm ok with that. Especially if it's your 3rd time. I do wonder if there is some cause and effect in play with robberies and the assaults. Being from a poverty stricken area, most of the robberies and assaults I witnessed (in my area) were just from poor people arguing about what little value they have. Or drugs. I also would like to see the drug possessions broken down into type of drug. I suspect marijuana possession is still a large part of that. <1G of weed is different than heroin.
    - jacobush 10y ago
      But fuck, life in prison for drunk driving three times? How about foot chain, mandatory visits to parole officer, or prison until convicted is of age 30 and above? (Less recidivism above a certain age.)
      - John23832 10y ago
        This is just my opinion, but if you get two passes for drunk driving and you do it a third time... that's your fault. Also from the data, very few inmates get more than 10-20 for drunk driving. Those are also probably people who have way more than 3 convictions, or have committed egregious drunk driving. We might want to look at what is causing you to drunk drive (addiction, which should be a medical issue and not a legal one), but something should be done after your third time.
        saiya-jin 10y ago
        hell, I knew US is a effed up police state these days, but even a possibility of life for 3 times driving drunk? that's not western democracy, that's 3rd world fascist dictatorship in a hardcore flavor (FYI, I rarely drink and if yes its max few beers/wine only, would never drive under influence) maybe if you are living daily in such a broken environment it starts to feel more normal, but seriously guys... get a grip and try to come up with something that actually solves problems and not just destroys lives permanently. I don't want to travel to US for same reasons I don't travel to Afghanistan or South Sudan - some good people, but messed up system and you don't want to accidentally see the darker side of it
        John23832 10y ago
        You didn't look at the stats... You're not getting a life sentence just for driving drunk a third time. You may get one for killing someone (or multiple people) while driving drunk, but not just for driving drunk. Look, I'm left of left, but there should be punishments for negative behavior.
        10y ago
  - e12e 10y ago
    Speaking of statistics, on a related note, The Guardian keeps a tally of people killed by police in the US: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/... Looks like numbers for January 2017 isn't in yet.
valuearb 10y ago
Problem is the article is entirely wrong to be dismissive of the effects of the drug war. The author says that prisons aren't full of low level drug offenders, and I believe them. But that doesn't mean it's not full of people who • violently assaulted a user who stole or didn't pay for drugs. • violently assaulted a dealer in order to steal their drugs and or cash. • murdered someone they believed was cooperating with the police and implicating them in drug trafficking. • sold drugs while being armed with illegal weapons in order to protect themselves and their illegal business. • etc. The entire premise of the article is wrong, rendering it moot.

bilbo0s 10y ago

It was also a surprise, to me at least, that even if you released all of the people in jail for drug offenses, it would really only affect certain black demographics. That's something I hadn't realized. Basically a HUGE affect on the number of blacks in prison, but almost no affect on the number of whites and latinos in prison. And whites and latinos are overrepresented in the prison population in a relatively draconian way compared to Europe. (Just not as overrepresented as blacks. I'm assuming because of the asymmetry in enforcement of drug laws.) So we are using these sentencing laws to send EVERYONE to prison for a long time, regardless of the crime. It makes me wonder how many crimes actually land you in prison? Probably some things I don't even know about will put you there.

hackermailman 10y ago
Texas Tribune keeps stats on their state prisons https://www.texastribune.org/library/data/texas-prisons/ https://www.texastribune.org/library/data/texas-prisons/ Seems to be mainly robbery, drug possession and drunk driving convictions.
- John23832 10y ago
  A drunk driving conviction is a drunk driving conviction... I'm ok with that. Especially if it's your 3rd time. I do wonder if there is some cause and effect in play with robberies and the assaults. Being from a poverty stricken area, most of the robberies and assaults I witnessed (in my area) were just from poor people arguing about what little value they have. Or drugs. I also would like to see the drug possessions broken down into type of drug. I suspect marijuana possession is still a large part of that. <1G of weed is different than heroin.
  - jacobush 10y ago
    But fuck, life in prison for drunk driving three times? How about foot chain, mandatory visits to parole officer, or prison until convicted is of age 30 and above? (Less recidivism above a certain age.)
    - John23832 10y ago
      This is just my opinion, but if you get two passes for drunk driving and you do it a third time... that's your fault. Also from the data, very few inmates get more than 10-20 for drunk driving. Those are also probably people who have way more than 3 convictions, or have committed egregious drunk driving. We might want to look at what is causing you to drunk drive (addiction, which should be a medical issue and not a legal one), but something should be done after your third time.
      - saiya-jin 10y ago
        hell, I knew US is a effed up police state these days, but even a possibility of life for 3 times driving drunk? that's not western democracy, that's 3rd world fascist dictatorship in a hardcore flavor (FYI, I rarely drink and if yes its max few beers/wine only, would never drive under influence) maybe if you are living daily in such a broken environment it starts to feel more normal, but seriously guys... get a grip and try to come up with something that actually solves problems and not just destroys lives permanently. I don't want to travel to US for same reasons I don't travel to Afghanistan or South Sudan - some good people, but messed up system and you don't want to accidentally see the darker side of it
        John23832 10y ago
        You didn't look at the stats... You're not getting a life sentence just for driving drunk a third time. You may get one for killing someone (or multiple people) while driving drunk, but not just for driving drunk. Look, I'm left of left, but there should be punishments for negative behavior.
        10y ago
- e12e 10y ago
  Speaking of statistics, on a related note, The Guardian keeps a tally of people killed by police in the US: https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/01/the-counted-police-killings-us-database https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/ng-interactive/2015/jun/... Looks like numbers for January 2017 isn't in yet.

valuearb 10y ago

Problem is the article is entirely wrong to be dismissive of the effects of the drug war. The author says that prisons aren't full of low level drug offenders, and I believe them. But that doesn't mean it's not full of people who • violently assaulted a user who stole or didn't pay for drugs. • violently assaulted a dealer in order to steal their drugs and or cash. • murdered someone they believed was cooperating with the police and implicating them in drug trafficking. • sold drugs while being armed with illegal weapons in order to protect themselves and their illegal business. • etc. The entire premise of the article is wrong, rendering it moot.