8 ms·
This Industry is Fucked (2015)
- romanovcode 10y agoYou could add [2015] to the title
- rl3 10y agoThe only reason this was posted is that the author has a recent technical blog post trending on the main page right now, and it's quite good: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13442281 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13442281 Judging from the disaster that is this thread, it should probably be flagged into the ground before a flamewar starts.
- Jaruzel 10y agoI posted it, with a 90% expectation of it going nowhere, and 10% expectation of a few comments that showed the general viewpoint of a community that I felt has some of better elements of humanity in it. However what we got was, 80+ comments of basically flame war, and over half telling her to 'get over herself'. :( So based on that, then yes she's right. This Industry is Fucked[1]. And I am ashamed to be part of it these days. -- [1] And it's not just sexism; The whole industry has been taken over by the suits and wide-boys, who are busily destroying it from the inside out.
- FloatingGhost 10y agoNo, blog author. A few people are fucked up. Not an industry.
- leifg 10y agoDid you just yell #NotAllMen?
- FeepingCreature 10y agoPattern matching an argument to a hashtag is not a refutation.
- FloatingGhost 10y agoNo, but generalising an entire industry by the reprehensible actions of a few is kinda like "all Muslims are terrorists" - grossly mis-representative.
- yosamino 10y agohashtag not all industry!! I think what you're not getting from this comment is that it's not "a few", but it's "many enough to make this person's life considerably worse". And that this behavior is partially enabled, because there is a culture that, while not openly condoning it, lets this behavior go on in it's underground. That means very much the "an industry".
- mfukar 10y agoOne person is enough to make another person's life considerably worse. That doesn't mean a thing about the circles either one's involved with.
- bestest 10y agoI don't really get why ^this^ is being downvoted. It most definitely is NOT the industry by itself. It's humans in general.
- DanBC 10y agoThere's a difference between > few people and > humans in general I tend to agree with you - humans in general are awful, and I'm not convinced "the tech industry" is any worse.
- henrebotha 10y agoBut if the industry continues to enable those few...
- superplussed 10y agoI think you could easily retitle this as "Men are fucked", or probably closer to the point: "Boys are fucked". It's a male dominated, youth-oriented industry, and all of the sexism and harassment that a woman will encounter is an outgrowth of that. This isn't to excuse the behaviour, but merely to ask if there are any examples of young-male oriented industries that have better behaviour?
- RantyDave 10y agoThe harassment is not due to being a male/youth dominated industry, but a large one and by definition incredibly well connected. It's easy for a very small percentage of idiots to make a very large noise. We need to be finding these people and getting them out of our industry on a permanent basis. They can go work on a landfill as far as I'm concerned.
- mpfundstein 10y agoThe harassment is not due to being a male/youth dominated industry, but a large one and by definition incredibly well connected. It's easy for a very small percentage of idiots to make a very large noise. THIS
- masklinn 10y ago> We need to be finding these people and getting them out of our industry on a permanent basis. Sadly every time that's tried the freeze peaches crowd descends and claims not being able to send death threats and say that jews should die is persecution, and anyway she was probably a slut asking for it.
- FeepingCreature 10y agoTo be fair, every time that's tried the social justice crowd takes it too far and tries to kick people out for holding the wrong opinions, even if they never actually harassed anyone. Good intentions do not protect from being corrupted by power, who knew?
- 10y ago
- akjainaj 10y agoI think she means this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qlLUf7KtAw https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qlLUf7KtAw
- TurboHaskal 10y agoWhy would you fap to that? Truly f*cked.
- akjainaj 10y agoThis is the first time I hear about this individual, and even though I believe her when she says she's received the messages she alleges she's received, I doubt any of them had any kind of seriousness to them, and she should know that. Also if you think getting insulted on IRC is bad, it's because you haven't been packeted out ;P
- finid 10y agoI doubt any of them had any kind of seriousness to them, and she should know that. How is she supposed to know that a picture of her covered in blood is a joke? Put yourself in the position of one of the most physically-vulnerable member of society and tell me how you'can find that funny.
- akjainaj 10y agoI've been on IRC for 15 years and I've seen (and suffered :P) so much worse. I'll just say some parts of the internet are just not meant for everybody.
- RantyDave 10y agoIs it OK for even just a couple of people to send you death threats? Do you want me to pick through your posts, find out where you work, have a bullet delivered to your desk? Splash blood on your front door? Phone your loved ones and tell them you're going to die? No. No you don't. And it would be a very, very big deal for you if I did. But it wouldn't be serious, I'd be doing it for shits'n'giggles and you should know that.
- ordbajsare 10y agoProbably fake.... SJW fake all the time.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- dyjakan 10y agoA woman does what women always do – seeking attention and throwing tantrums without any logical thought put into it. I feel sick and tired of things without any essence being upvoted on this site. Lastly, if you _really_ feel that this industry is "fucked" then GTFO and do something else. We won't miss you.
- yosamino 10y agoIf people like you are the problem, then why should the people you are wronging leave, instead of you ?
- FeepingCreature 10y agoThis is a complicated question with no right answer. Both sides of it have been in the wrong historically. I personally believe that the people who have been there longer should have the right to determine what is happening, but there are many reasons for why this view may be wrong, such as the lack of alternative spaces, the necessity of work to survive, the principles of equality, and so on. However, let us be clear about one thing: If parent does not harass women and does not send death threats, which seems likely, then regardless of which opinion you hold they are not the problem. Let's not ever kick people out for civilly holding an opinion, even if we find the opinion repugnant. Civility is important. Civility was violated for the woman behind this post, but not afaik by this commenter. The real problem are not the people who hold controversial opinions. The real problem are the harassers. Let's team up on them without bystanders having to be scared they'll be next.
- dyjakan 10y agoA voice of reason far outnumbered by the mob.
- lxrbst 10y ago"created: 7 minutes ago" You're just here to start shit with a 2 year old shitpost from a attention seeking girl aren'ẗ you.
- g105b 10y agoThis industry is so young and naive. Also arrogant for thinking it's the only industry with a problem. All industries are f*cked. It's the human condition.
- coldtea 10y ago>All industries are fcked.* Not much of an answer. And not qualified with any metrics either.
- DanBC 10y agoOne of your comments is dead. I don't know why, I think it's a word filter maybe. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13442908 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13442908
- coldtea 10y agoThanks, not sure why either. Could be the words "masturbated"/"rape" or somebody doesn't like the overall idea.
- agounaris 10y agoThis is irrelevant to the industry. And I feel offended by attacking the industry. Banking, retail, fashion, you will get such comments everywhere. A lot of men are jerks indeed but this is a social problem, not an industry one.
- coldtea 10y agoProgramming though attracts all sorts of introverted guys with lacking social skills and a bad track record with relationships (in school etc). (And to prevent knee-jerk responses, I don't mean that everyone or even most are like that. Just that a lot are like that, which has even made it into developer folklore and is a well known stereotype with basis in reality). The kind of person who would comment on a woman's developer presentation that they "masturbated watching the video of her presentation" (!!!). Other industries, such as banking, tend to attract other kinds of people (more jock-ey, or "in-crowd"), which have other issues (more sexual assault, rape, entitlement, etc).
- fahadkhan 10y agoIt being a social problem means that is also an industry problem, by definition.
- johnfn 10y agoSo because the problem is bigger than the author implied, we shouldn't try to solve it?
- toor2 10y ago>Banking, retail, fashion, you will get such comments everywhere. A lot of men are jerks indeed but this is a social problem, not an industry one. This is a moral equivalence fallacy, a red herring of sorts. You are saying this women's frustration with her industry is irrelevant to her industry because a handful of unrelated indusries have problems that could be similar. This argument ignores that CS/IT is largely male and notorious are for this disgusting behavior. It's one of the only industries that had a greater percentage of women in the 80s than it does now. There are industries that do not suffer from this problem at all or nearly to the same degree. In full, this women's expirence is directly related to overt mysogeny in industry culture and labeling it as a "social problem" willfully ignores this problem in tech thus perpetuating it further.
- amgin3 10y agoI find this very hard to believe, unless she purposely offended a lot of people in a huge way. Without seeing any proof of her claims other than her own writing, I'm more inclined to believe that this is false and she is just seeking attention and sympathy.
- FeepingCreature 10y agoRemember to at least be open to the possibility.
- RantyDave 10y agoLeave. Really. There's no shortage of software engineers, sysadmins, people to fix the coffee holders or whatever - everybody should be working in technology more than you should. Do you get posts from men seeking attention and sympathy? What about black people? Jews? No, of course not, but as soon as a woman's involved it's somehow OK to assume you can dismiss it out of hand. Leave. Get out of our damn industry. Go away.
- FeepingCreature 10y agoI disagree. Being wrong should never justify exclusion. Being wrong gets argument, not punishment. Parent does not harass women? Parent gets to stay. Otherwise you show you can't be trusted with the power to kick people out.
- RantyDave 10y agoParent did just harass women. But other than that I agree with you.
- FeepingCreature 10y agoStuff like this is what makes people not trust SJ people. Parent did not send women sexual messages. Parent did not stalk people. Parent did not photoshop girls with blood. Parent had an opinion on the internet. If we can't even tolerate that, how can we be trusted to decide who stays and who goes? (Note: if parent did any of the above, I retract my claim.)
- fsloth 10y agoOne charitable hypothesis could be raised that the ratio of harassers in male population is constant, but in male dominated social groups the number of potential victims is lower, thus the the frequency of harassment events females suffer is higher than in social groups with a more balanced ratio. I have no statistics for or against this. The test we need is: How often are individuals in social groups with skewed sex ratios who are of the rarer sex in the said group sexually harassed, and is this ratio skewed in software engineering. Generally, from what I can gather from the anecdotal evidence of my female friends, a certain percentage of us men in general are assholes. It seems that as a matter of fact they have to suffer the real possibility harassment where ever they are (not constantly, but they have to consider it a plausible event). Which to a guy sounds just horrible.
- fapjacks 10y agoI think that reduces further to: A certain percentage of people are assholes.
- fsloth 10y agoWith the life experience I have, I would claim there is a strong gender bias here. I'm a heterosexual male, pushing 40, not too bad looking. No one has ever asked me to sit in their lap, grabbed my but, catcalled after me, or "jokingly" appraised my breasts or other body parts. I've never been anywhere, where I've had to consider the possibility of rape. How often do you hear females lurking in dark parks, just to hunt down men who they can rape? Yes, sexual and psychological violence goes both ways, but still females are more often the victims. It might be totally symmetric in female dominated groups with males being the victims. What ever that is, males don't get their buts squeezed in elevators by random strangers. Or I'm missing from some action I'm not aware off.
- belorn 10y agoYou have never seen a drunk woman acting unappropriated to a man? Odd, as I see that all the time in the city during weekend nights, or hotels near conferences. I would go as far as saying that its everyday activity in bars. The reaction is practically always the same, ie that the man ignores it or at worst tells the woman to please stop hitting/yelling/acting inappropriate, and the woman either blowing it off or laugh it off. If the man complains more he will most likely hear "man up" and just take it, which is the cultural image of a male victim of female violence.
- jaxn 10y agoI thought that this old post may no longer be as relevant. Maybe we have made progress. Then I read the comments on this thread. :( We must do better.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- coldtea 10y ago>I thought that this old post may no longer be as relevant. Maybe we have made progress. Since 2013? Also, in human issues (as opposed to technology) there's no monotonically increasing progress. There periods of the past that are way more tolerant and peaceful than periods that preceded them, and vice versa. Like the sixties gave way to the selfish seventies and eighties (and macho Reaganism, etc), like the cosmopolitan Europe of the 20s and 30s gave way to the Nazi hell of the late 30s to mid-40s, like the Roman republic decayed into the rule of crazy emperors, etc.
- therestisgone 10y agoI would say dealing with bullshit is an part of our life.
- kbart 10y agoIt's not original in tech industry. Probably every girl/woman that has at least a bit significant online presence encounters similar problems. My GF is an amateur photomodel, you should see what messages she constantly receives.
- finid 10y agoEver since I started speaking at conferences and contributing to open source projects I have been endlessly harassed. I’ve gotten hundreds of private messages on IRC and emails about sex, rape, and death threats. People emailing me saying they jerked off to my conference talk video (you’re welcome btw) is mild in comparison to sending photoshopped pictures of me covered in blood. I find that shocking. I know people say things about others to their friends, but to actually direct that to another person is disappointing.
- ainiriand 10y agoI strongly agree. Some time ago I started recriminating some coworkers sexist attitudes, now I have given up fighting against the current, no more fighting. And in the advertisement industry is far worse.
- codecamper 10y agoProgrammers are kittens, from my experience. they are usually some of the best people. They are often shy as well.
- FeepingCreature 10y agoSampling bias, exacerbated by what you said. Sampling programmers you see what you observe, but sampling messages received you select for the bad crowd. Especially considering how cheap messages are and the outsize effect a bad apple can have.
- concinds 10y agoA lot of it can be managed. This probably isn't something most people want to hear, but Justin Bieber and Donald Trump don't get harassed. They don't read their Twitter notifications, and have people reading their mail for them. Public figures need to risk-manage, for example you'll never meet the Goldman Sachs CEO at some random bar, for obvious reasons. You also can't send him an email, since you don't know his address. CEOs, men and women, ancient and contemporary have had to find ways to avoid crowds and their envy/anger/pettiness for centuries. Just make yourself less accessible.
- MagnumOpus 10y ago> You also can't send him an email, since you don't know his address Not true. E-mail addresses of famous people are quite public, and your e-mail to lloyd.blankfein_at_gs.com or billg_at_microsoft.com will get read. Though - like you point out - it will likely be read by a team of secretaries or aides and only flagged to Lloyd if the message is deemed important or you are deemed important enough.
- concinds 10y agoInteresting. The point is that public figures have always had to shield themselves from the mediocrity of crowds, because it's easier to free yourself up from that than to change the whole society or industry.
- gcp 10y agohttps://blog.jessfraz.com/ https://blog.jessfraz.com/ seems to suggest she did not, in fact, quit the industry. (Good, it would only make the problem worse, no?)
- croon 10y agoThings every male (person) should be taught by their parents: 1) Would I do/say this to another male (person of a sex I'm not sexually oriented towards)? If not, don't do it any other person/gender either. That's basically it. TLDR; Treat everyone as a person first and foremost, and a potential partner/mate later.
- zigzigzag 10y agoIt was discussed previously: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9835375 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=9835375
- AnthonyLloyd 10y agoAwful. Report & publicly out them.
- masklinn 10y agoOf course that generally ends up with even more harassment and basically nothing done.
- greenhatman 10y agoIs it legal to post mail or messages that you receive publicly? Because that sounds like it might help. I know I've received threatening mail from lawyers, and have been advised not to share it publicly. So not sure if it can get you in trouble.
- _petronius 10y agoI think everyone jumping in to say "it's not the industry it's the people" or "other industries are like this, too" is missing the point. We tech people tend to think of ourselves as problem-solvers and intellectuals who would welcome anyone interested in the domain, and who was willing to contribute. And yet, many, many women in this industry feel marginalized and/or excluded. Even if that is based on the behaviour of a few bad actors, even if it is somethat that other male-dominated industries (like finance or manufacturing) suffer from, why not try and fix this? Why tolerate the behaviour, or shoot the messenger? People who get angry at posts like this seem to feel personally attacked somehow, which is a weird reaction. (I mean, unless you also harass women, in which case you should feel guilty and take this peronsally, and you should stop.) Otherwise, why not band together in solidarity with the women who experience it, and help put a stop to it? It will make your industry better, your companies more valuable, your workplaces more pleasant, and your conferences more interesting. And most importantly, people who right now are getting a lot of shit thrown their way will be treated better. There is seriously no downside.
- concinds 10y agoSaying "it's not the industry, it's the people" simply means that you can't fix the problem without fixing the people. Changing a few company policies here and there won't fix anything, especially since we're talking about open-source projects here. My other comment addresses "if the problem is the people, what's wrong with them exactly, and how can we fix it?"
- odiroot 10y ago> I think everyone jumping in to say "it's not the industry it's the people" or "other industries are like this, too" is missing the point. To the contrary. It's exactly on point. We don't see anyone saying "school industry is fucked" just because some teachers are abusing the students or "airline industry is fucked" because pilots pick up stewardesses. I find it really repulsive how it's somehow okay in our industry to throw blanket accusations and demand collective responsibility. This is a huge weakness of our environment. Something that actually makes me consider leaving the industry from time to time.
- concinds 10y agoHopefully this will be constructive. It's a tough pill to swallow but it's needed: This is only a problem because of a) the immaturity of the average tech guy, relative to other professions and b) the lack of success with women of the average tech guy, again relative to the overall population. Tech professions attract mostly left-brained people, and attract some personality types much more than other types. A tech guy is more likely to be an introvert. He's also more likely to have poor social skills, which relates to both A and B. It would be interesting to know if insecure attachment styles are more prevalent in the tech industry (likely), if anxiety disorders are more prevalent (likely; and someone with anxiety might be more likely to spend their free time indoors harassing people than playing football outside) and if low self-esteem is more prevalent (sadly, in my experience, likely; obviously 'harassment behavior' isn't something to be proud of, so doing it, while apparently desirable for some, would just result in lowered self-respect for them). This is more prevalent in the open-source community, since there are no selection standards. You need neither a degree from MIT or Stanford, or to go through the tough Google interview standards, so you'll end up with the crap that's left on top of the sieve. This problem will not get fixed anytime soon, and certainly can't get fixed through politics of any kind, since it's founded in personality and psychology. Mandatory pre-school with screening of all children for attachment disorders would help a lot, and hopefully someone reading this will be convinced to promote that as a solution. To those who would say this is just speculation and ad hominem: it's conjecture, not speculation, and can be debated. It isn't ad hominem: to find a solution, asking "why" is necessary. There's no contempt here, though some of what I said may not be nice, I'm not assigning lower worth to anyone.
- RantyDave 10y agoI really don't care what the cause is, they can go. Why have them?
- FeepingCreature 10y agoBecause we're liberals, and liberals are inclusive by default? Having them is the default case. To exclude them, you have to make a specific argument to that extent. That's the only way civil society can exist without falling into constant tribal battles.
- roomey 10y agoA recent, and difficult to listen to, ted talk around harassment on social media this by Ashley Judd. http://www.ted.com/talks/ashley_judd_how_online_abuse_of_women_has_spiraled_out_of_control http://www.ted.com/talks/ashley_judd_how_online_abuse_of_wom... It is beyond me where this level of vitriol is coming from, are women that threatening?
- henrebotha 10y agoAn eye-opening idea for me was the concept that it is not women that are fragile, but men. The slightest indication of a threat to masculinity sends men into a fit of rage.
- MagnumOpus 10y agoAn eye-opening idea for me was the concept that generalisations that pertain to millions (let alone billions) of people are invariably wrong. If you'd have worded it "The slightest indication of a threat to masculinity sends some men into a fit of rage" you might have had a point, rather than sounding like a troll.
- zigzigzag 10y agoYes, many men feel threatened by feminists (which are of course not all women by a long shot). They have a habit of pushing for policy changes, social changes and the creation of new taboos that artificially tip the world towards themselves, at the expense of men who are typically not sexist or doing very much at all. In tech, they have successfully created an environment where women have an advantage when getting jobs and especially when not getting fired. They on the other hand are able to get men fired at other companies, merely by claiming to be offended at comments they overhead: http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/03/how-dongle-jokes-got-two-people-fired-and-led-to-ddos-attacks/ http://arstechnica.com/tech-policy/2013/03/how-dongle-jokes-... Feminists, and the women who wrote this blog post appears to be one, routinely attack men in all sorts of ways. It triggers reactions back, many of which are unpleasant and nasty.
- FeepingCreature 10y ago
- zigzigzag 10y agoBingo. I am really skeptical that this woman attracts trolls because she works in tech. Based on prior experience of these sorts of claims it's probably because she has extreme feminist opinions that upset a lot of people but can't recognise that. Same with gamergate: women who claim women are all horribly oppressed, that all men are beasts etc tend to attract a lot of really bad shit in return. From taking a gander over Ms Frazelle's Twitter feed she has retweeted this: https://twitter.com/ItsSteephh/status/818283957464670210 A poster that gives women a secret code to call the police because they "feel weird" on a Tinder date? This is the kind of ultra-extremist feminism that is guaranteed to trigger giant shitstorms and it has nothing to do with tech, it's simply that 'women in tech' are more likely to hang out in lots of real time chat systems like IRC and Twitter than women in other industries.
- FeepingCreature 10y agoBeing upset does also not license this level of harassment. And frankly, people like you make it unpleasant every time I have to make the argument that the SJ crowd cannot be trusted with power, because frankly your behavior is an argument for giving them power. Like, Jesus Christ - know your audience, learn to read the room. Whether you're right or not, it doesn't even matter; this is not the right place and time to behave like this if you want to be effective.
- zigzigzag 10y agoAnd when is the issue of feminist overreach discussed, except when a feminist's actions have triggered discussion? Do you have a better "room"? When people like you try to shut down debate by saying now is not the time, all you do is make things worse. That's how Trump wins: he doesn't try and "read the room" or bring things up at the "appropriate" times. He doesn't care about these rules social-justice types try and impose at all, because he knows there is never going to be a time when they're happy for their behaviour to be discussed.
- FeepingCreature 10y agoLook. :sigh: I see what you're saying, okay? And I can totally empathize. But look. Here's an apparently unrelated article on Magic the Gathering: http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/misc/2005_Stuck_In_The_Middle_With_Bruce.html http://www.starcitygames.com/magic/misc/2005_Stuck_In_The_Mi... It says that if you're facing a challenging task and under stress, like winning a game, there's an instinct to lose. I think the idea is that winning takes effort, and so we have a bias that makes us go "well, I'll charge all in and see if it works," and then it predictably doesn't work and we retreat into a sort of "hah, I knew I would lose!" because by taking the risk, we sort of licensed losing in our minds. Like, "you didn't beat me, I beat myself!" type of thing. This is not the place to bring the topic up. I don't know if there is a better place to bring the topic up, but I feel like what motivates you to bring it up here may be something similar to that article, where you know you're going to get downvoted but at least you know why, and expect it, and that makes it acceptable. If you want to actually win, you have to avoid reactions like that. You have to be patient, and wait for the right time, and then use the right level of forcefulness, and signal in the right way, and make the right concessions, and it's hard, nobody is saying it's not, but would you rather lose on your terms or win?
- Musaab 10y agoI'll just say that in Turkey I have worked with many female programmers and different females on the periphery (ones who interact with programmers on a daily basis, but may not be, themselves, programmers) and we do not have that problem here. No one disrespects them or makes advances towards or anything like that. Not only that, but more and more women are taking Computer Science and getting into programming here in Turkey. I'm also an American (born and raised) so I'd have to say it's a cultural issue, not an industry one. Fix your culture.
- toor2 10y ago>it's a cultural issue, not an industry one Industries have cultures. Cultural issues and issues within an industry's culture are not mutually exclusive by definition. >Fix your culture That's the point of this blog post and conversation. We aren't going to fix anything by skirting blame onto greater societal forces and continue on business as normal
- throw2016 10y agoThere are always going to be disturbed individuals. The important thing is they are recognized as such and not diffused into the male collective. The shocking thing for men to quickly realize from all the women speaking out is they are relating eerily similar stories and there seems to be a rather large number of disturbed men than one would have thought. The problem in tech more than other professions is there are far too many self important individuals who will latch on to anything to think less of others to maintain their inflated sense of self. The whole mythlogy of 10x engineer, genius programmer accentuates this. This is not just a job, its identity. To these neanderthals the idea that women have brains as good as anyone's has not 'registered' and its convenient to think of women as lesser then them and their place as 'unearned'. They lash out in any way they can, abusive and agressive behavior anonymously, and via politics and put downs in the office. The internet has opened the floodgates for mentally disturbed indivuals to launch persistent and dedicated rampages against individuals with zero risk and consequences. I think it important to distinguish between normal people and those clearly struggling to come to terms to their social environment. It's even more important for organizations to quickly identify such individuals and get rid of them. Once there are consequences people fall in line. Only zero tolerance works for bigotry.
- Timucin 10y agoI haven't read all the comments but must say this; The behaviour she witnessed is not about technology, industry or gender -yet I agree that the women is targeted more. It's just people when they think they are unreachable, they can get away with it. Internet is the perfect place for them to be themselves. I am not saying it's how it should be but it's kind of unavoidable in the current state of internet. So the best is dealing with this as you do in real life: keep your distance, ignore them as much as possible, use your rights when you can (let the authorities deal with them if there are threats for example) and don't let them get into your skin.
- Neliquat 10y agoExtrapolating your personal issues to a whole gender and industry is asinine at best. Can we rise above this?
- fmatthew5876 10y agoGuys who behave this way are the insecure loser types who are desperate, thirsty, socially incapable, selfish, lacking empathy, unable to be attractive to a woman, and unable get laid. If any of this describes you then pay attention. Get off your computer and learn some social skills. Google for advice on dating, social skills, style / how to dress, seduction, and most importantly how to get over your insecurities and psychological issues. There are tons of great resources on all of these subjects for men. Become an actual player women love to be around instead of an anti-social loser they despise. We can talk about "the industry" and all this non-sense forever. The ugly truth is that thirsty men harassing women is as old as the hills. The more sexually repressed a culture or particular sub-group is (read: socially awkward computer geeks), the more this shit goes on. It takes tremendous courage and effort to transform yourself for the better if you weren't lucky enough to be naturally gifted in these areas. It can be done, but most will be too cowardly and too lazy to do it. Therefore, unfortunately I see no end to this problem any time soon.