9 ms·

My company: 5 months work from home, one month work in a 5 star hotel

236 points by maxklein 16y ago

jrnkntl 16y ago
So, are you hiring?
- percept 16y ago
  http://spreadsong.com/hiring_on_elance_how_to_get_amazing_people_for_5_more_than_the_awful_ones http://spreadsong.com/hiring_on_elance_how_to_get_amazing_pe...
  - chime 16y ago
    > If you’re from India, it’s important to learn English, but it’s not critical. You can get by on Hindi- you can’t get by on Hungarian or Romanian. I don't think that's true at all. You need to learn English to understand programming manuals, teachers, and reference guides. Effective communication is not required but understanding of the English language is a must.
- maxklein 16y ago
  Actually, you point out a flaw in this model. Hiring has to be very specific - you need people who you can hang around with for a month and they don't drive you crazy with their teeth grinding or something. So my hiring would have to be very careful and would have to lean towards people who are similar in age and interest to the rest of the team.
  - jrnkntl 16y ago
    True. For our startup we experienced the same; we were working with a team of 3 and we could just camp out at one of our houses for a week and do dev'ing during the day and relaxing/drinking in the evenings. When we hired a 4th guy to help out these weeks turned from awesome and productive to a sluggish pita week. He produced great work but hanging around with him in the evenings was more stressing and tiring than all the work together.
  - deleted 16y ago
    [deleted]
  - smiler 16y ago
    Similar age and interest? You can't discriminate based on age or interest - that's illegal
    - maxklein 16y ago
      I would not put out an ad asking for people to hire, rather I'd work with people on project basis, and if I found one that is a good fit, I'd ask him to join. Would that be illegal also?
      - Psyonic 16y ago
        Seems unlikely. Also, given how small your company is, it'd be nearly impossible for someone to prove you've discriminated based on any particular factor, as opposed to just being selective. Not enough employees to demonstrate a pattern. So I doubt this should even be a concern for you.
    - mrduncan 16y ago
      I assume you're talking about the US (apologies if you aren't) - interest is not a protected class. The following are protected groups: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class Edit: See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_VII#Title_VII http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_VII#Title_VII I'll also state the obvious here - I'm not a lawyer and you shouldn't trust legal advice you receive on the internet.
    - petercooper 16y ago
      In the real world, and especially in small companies, people eventually hire people they like and get a good feeling about. You're just not allowed to air your preferences in certain areas or restrict the /chance/ to different people. Behind closed doors, though, nothing is any better than before all these laws. If one didn't want to hire someone with quality "X", is their back-room thinking /really/ going to be entirely non-discriminatory? No chance.
      - _delirium 16y ago
  - j_baker 16y ago
    That's not a lot different from how you'd do hiring for a face-to-face company though.
  - numbchuckskills 16y ago
    yup..definitely an illegal hiring practice (age discrimination); but confirms my suspicion that this is not a totally legitimate company anyways.
vpdn 16y ago
I wonder what kind of business generates 40k a month with three people remotely scattered around the globe. Sounds like a pretty awesome model. Care to share?
- maxklein 16y ago
  iPhone mostly, and I'm not the only one, check out http://twitter.com/spreadsong http://twitter.com/spreadsong, they make even more!
  - exit 16y ago
    so most of your revenue comes from the "Art you should know" app, listed on cubeofm.com ? or do you have products not listed there?
    - pragmatic 16y ago
      Yes, I'm also curious. One iphone app generates 40k of income a month @ $.99 per unit? Interesting. I'm surprised more people aren't discussing that, rather than the "omfg you travel" and blar blar blar...
      - barmstrong 16y ago
        Totally agree...I'm pretty floored that this art app is generating $40k a month. Would not have guessed that. Congrats man. That's newsworthy.
    - jcl 16y ago
      He describes his business in a past HN post: "I sell apps on the app store. A lot of small cheap apps." http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1060019 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1060019
      - megablast 16y ago
        It start to make sense when he talks about the people in China.
djb_hackernews 16y ago
I like how he refers to his "programmer" like it's his pet monkey. Sounds like a great plan, but is it sustainable? Is it really solving the problem? Edit: iPhone apps. Not sustainable. OP even agrees. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1060019 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1060019
- ukdm 16y ago
  If the company generates 40k a month without expanding, and the break costs 2.8K a month then it is sustainable. But the trips are a clear aid to expansion meaning potentially a lot more revene generation. So it's actually in the interests of the company to do this from what he is saying.
  - djb_hackernews 16y ago
    eh, it was 40k for just one month. No mention of previous months and not enough information to predict future months. Not convinced it's sustainable given the information.
    - maxklein 16y ago
      Last 6 months have been high enough to sustain this, but who knows that the future will bring. If ever income drops down, then one would simply stop this, and look for solutions that fit the income level.
brk 16y ago
The concept seems cool, but if people really do have family lives, a month away is too long (IMO). I also think the 5 month cycle between trips could cause a lot of repetitions of falling back into a boredom mode. Seems more like 1 week together every 8 weeks would be more manageable and logical overall.
- maxklein 16y ago
  Yes, but very expensive. The trips are not cheap at $700 a flight. Ship captains and oil rig engineers leave their family for 6 weeks or more at a time. There are some people for whom this type of travel is workable, and some for whom it is not. If oil rig engineers can keep families and be away so much, so can programmers.
  - mrkurt 16y ago
    Oil rig engineers have to be away that much, or they're no longer going to be oil rig engineers. They also make disproportionately more money doing that particular job than they would if they did something else. There's no natural requirement for programmers to leave their home/families (unless they're consulting). I suspect you're not giving your employees "hazard" pay either, are you? If it were me, I'd want to bring my family along and turn it into a work vacation.
    - maxklein 16y ago
      But what if this is condition of the job? When you apply, you are informed that you have to do this. If its unacceptable, you simply do something else.
      - omgsean 16y ago
        Then you might miss out on a lot of talented people, because being away for a month at a time is a strange requirement for a programmer. Most people have families, friends, significant others, pets, or WoW guilds they simply don't want to be away from for a month at a time. The emotional toll of homesickness could very easily end up costing you. Not to mention, if your employees are in committed relationships you're also subjecting them to a month without sex. I don't know if it's worth $2800/month to have two months a year where your employees are homesick and sexually frustrated.
Alex63 16y ago
Aren't there tax implications for "working" in another country?
- terryjsmith 16y ago
  Most countries would define "working" as earning money from an employer within that country itself, hence depriving citizens of that country of a prospective job.
  - maigret 16y ago
    That's wrong. I know from big corps that employees always have to ask for work permission when going to the US (or other countries) for things like development, even for one week. For most countries in the world you actually need a work permission to do that. Single exception is when you do customers meetings all the time and have a secretary typing for you.
    - mallipeddi 16y ago
      Except no one can verify what you do exactly. You always tell the immigration officer at the airport (if he/she asks you) that you're visiting for "meetings". But who does meetings 9-5 every day for 2-3 weeks? Basically you're OK as long as you don't get paid for your work there. My friend works in the oil/gas industry and he keeps flying to different countries frequently and works there for almost 3-4 weeks. But he doesn't get paid in that country (he gets some per-diem allowance but that's all).
- arethuza 16y ago
  There certainly can be - I had a colleague who was working in the US for our UK based company and after a mix up by the tax advisers he ended up being taxed twice.
- gaius 16y ago
  Not if you're paid in your home country in your home currency. This is how consulting firms do it.
joubert 16y ago
For a big project, I once recommended to my boss to put us all on a yacht off Key West.
- oz 16y ago
  How'd it work out?
  - joubert 16y ago
    he smiled
zenocon 16y ago
I do something similar, although not as lavish. I'm an independent consultant, and I typically work 4-5 weeks at home, and then co-locate for one week at the client to do planning and design for the next iteration. I've found this to be a perfect balance. I can relate to what he says about the isolation -- missing the camaraderie and sharing in small victories or frustrations. On the other hand, not having to drive into an office every day is bliss. It is a balancing act...you have to find what fits for you and your team.
kixxauth 16y ago
OK, so how about some ideas for a bootstrapped company that is no where close to making $40k a month (yet)? In fact, we work remotely for the freedom it offers, but also because we can't afford a space.
- mseebach 16y ago
  It comes down to whether you can afford the flights to bring the team together. If you can, get a regular, non-luxury cabin/summerhouse in the countryside for a week. Beer in the fridge, hamburgers on the grill and a bonfire at night works every bit as well as Bangkok nightlife for bonding. Good internet might be an issue, but if you bring a 3G modem and a router, and spend some time setting up a server, so you can bring a local repository, build-server, test-server etc., you should be able to get by. I've thought about equipping a summerhouse for this model, as a business (good chairs, good desks, good internet aren't usually found in summer houses), mostly aimed at teams that need to get out of the office to bond, kick-start a project etc.
starkfist 16y ago
I've worked at a company that operated like this. It's great if the company is the only thing going in your life, and that's how you like it. It's not great if you want to take a night class, or have a regular volunteer obligation (I was a math tutor) or play on an after work sports team, or are in an amateur orchestra, or have a regular fitness training regimen, or are dating, or have a garden, or a dog, or simply don't like living in hotels. For me, the end result was having a life not unlike George Clooney's in "Up in The Air." Edit: it's actually quite similar to a management consultant's schedule. Except instead of Bangkok, you end up in Houston.
- maukdaddy 16y ago
  Houston? You're damn lucky if you end up in Houston! More likely you're in Ames, Iowa or Ft. Wayne, Indiana.
- gaius 16y ago
  Consulting is far more brutal. Out Monday, back Friday, every week, unless you're between projects. On the upside, you do get weekends off. On the downside, you'll spend all weekend either sleeping or doing chores. I did get to go to some cool places as a consultant, but the truth is, airports, taxis, meeting rooms and hotels are the same everywhere in the world. Having great colleagues is a must, there are some good times to be had. But you can't live like that for more than a few years without going crazy. One competitor company of ours would enter a new territory by renting a nice house in that country and a few people from other offices would all go live there. Like MTV's The Real World. They would be the nucleus and the rest of the office would be made up of traveling consultants and local hires.
vpdn 16y ago
Beside efficient communication and faster execution, the approach also helps break the lethargic monotony a one man show has to face, be it as a freelancer or an employee in a distributed team. One month 'off' is also a great way to say thanks to everyone for their endless hours and bang-head-against-wall solo session. Before my time, IBM regularly held a WebSphere Services Technical Conference (WSTC) in Las Vegas and annually flew in a big portion of the team for a week to learn about the hottest features. I am sure my colleagues learned a lot, but the stories I am told these days about those days also go beyond and usually start with someone getting lost on The Strip at 3am. It probably doesn't have to be that expensive though. I would assume that renting a house wouldn't take away too much from the experience and benefits but would be significantly cheaper (we had a house which could easily fit up to eight people at the ocean, 60km away from Venice in Italy for 500EUR/week). When the team is right, doing simple stuff such as cooking together can be quite fun and bonding. A related approach: Designer Stefan Sagmeister gives up some of his retirement years and instead takes a one year 'creative break' every seven years. Here's his TED talk: http://www.ted.com/talks/stefan_sagmeister_the_power_of_time_off.html http://www.ted.com/talks/stefan_sagmeister_the_power_of_time...
plinkplonk 16y ago
I don't think this particular model is all that great, but I applaud maxklein's willingness to work with a distributed/remote team. [ rant begins ] For people who (for whatever reason) can't move to Silicon Valley, it is excruciating to watch all the cool startups in the USA and be stuck with an outsourced enterprise maintenance crap job because that is all that is available locally. It sucks when you read a startup dev job description, know that you'd be great at it and the very last sentence is "you should be a US resident. No remote working". I understand why people would want that, but it sucks anyway :-P. I am luckier than most developers in Bangalore - I work on Machine Learning/AI projects, which is where my expertise lies - but working alone is a bit of a drag and if I could work for (just as an example) ReThinkDB without having to move to the USA, I would apply in flash. Working with some of the people I "met" on HN would be awesome. I would happily take a paycut. Once my present project ends, I'll probably do something like this. [ rant ends ] Nutshell: I am very appreciative of any and all attempts by HN folks to work distributed/remote. Go @maxklein!
- phaedrus 16y ago
  I share your frustration. Although I do live in the USA, not all regions of the USA are equally prosperous. Though patriotism leads people here to shut their eyes to it, the economy in the state I live in has more in common with third world countries than first world. Yet my wife refuses to move to any other state, so I'm forced to watch countless opportunities to advance my career slide by because they don't allow you to work remotely, while I plod along in a job much less technically interesting than what I'm capable of. It's not a case of fewer engineers competing for jobs at a smaller number of technology companies, it's a case of fewer engineers and exactly zero technology companies. It doesn't matter if there are also fewer skilled/educated workers to compete against, it's still division by zero.
  - rortian 16y ago
    1. Please show me a state with a per capta gdp that approaches one from the third world. 2. Your wife may be forcing you to stay in state to be with her. Either celebrate your marriage and don't bitch about how it's bringing you down or move on.
gojomo 16y ago
What would folks think of a chain of high-quality coworking sites in low-cost destinations -- so you'd be sure of having comfortable desks, big monitors, reliable bandwidth, whiteboards, and a projector when you need them?
- jdminhbg 16y ago
  I would use the hell out of such a thing, but I expect that I'm a pretty small niche market.
  - wallflower 16y ago
    Possible prototype. Rick's "coworking retreat" "The first location is on a remote island in Bocas del Toro, Panama, right on the ocean, by a coral reef, on an island with no cars. We use solar power, have running water, propane refrigerators, and, of course, reliable Wifi. We're right on the border to Costa Rica, and the closest airport is 30 min away by boat. This is definitely a place for seriously adventurous souls - you can be working online one minute, and snorkel or kayak the next, or go for a hike in the jungle, or snorkel, waterski, ... We have lots of space -- several common areas to hang out, and a place to stay for everyone. We plan to have 6-10 people there at a time... We have a cook who prepares breakfast and lunch; dinner is self-organized; there are a few restaurants in the area, or we cook together. As far as I know, this is still a very new idea, and I'm curious how it works out... We're also looking for anchors/volunteers who would like to spend more time there and help run and improve the place, and to help shape the community. Any thoughts on the idea in general would also be appreciated." http://www.cocovivo.com/ http://www.cocovivo.com/
    - fortes 16y ago
      Cocovivo looks pretty neat. Could be a good working vacation for me. However, there are no indications of cost that I can find -- anyone stayed there before?
      - daveungerer 16y ago
jhgfdghnjmkjnbv 16y ago
I suspect this only worked once for the novelty. It's like sprint sessions at conference or emergency bug fixes at client sites - in terms of lines of code/hour it looks very productive but you can't do it for 30days straight. But congrats for looking at the idea. How many companies pay $100/sq ft for a prestige office space in downtown. Then cram employees into tiny cubicles (because it's costing $100/ft) and make you stay in Motel6 for $100/night on trips.
ryanb 16y ago
I enjoy reading Max's posts, but find it odd how secretive he is about what his actual business is.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
alexyim 16y ago
What's his company called again? Why isn't it linked on his blog?
- barmstrong 16y ago
  I was wondering this too. I assumed it was the homepage: http://www.cubeofm.com http://www.cubeofm.com But it doesn't have much on it and shows 1 or 2 iPhone apps which I'd be a little surprised if they were making $40k a month. What is the product or company?
shin_lao 16y ago
Just a quick comment: never tell the world how much you make, unless required by the law.
- barmstrong 16y ago
  Why is that? I've seen similar advice elsewhere (for example, 37Signals doesn't disclose revenue etc) but I've never been sure of the reason. Andrew Warner on the other hand talks about how he was initially uncomfortable with it but decided to do it based on the advice of the Neil Patel and it really helped him establish credibility and build traffic: http://mixergy.com/about/ http://mixergy.com/about/
  - maxklein 16y ago
    I'll say one thing - nobody gave a shit about me till the very first time I posted revenue figures a few months ago. Then I went from 40 twitter followers to 300 in a couple of days or so.
  - matwood 16y ago
    Because when you start talking about good revenue numbers you bring in competitors to the market. This advice is especially true in markets with very low barriers to entry like iPhone apps. Would it be easy to duplicate what maxklein is currently doing? Probably not, but $40k/month is going get some people to at least try and those people may end up being his competitors.
linhat 16y ago
just plain INTERESTING what a simple google search can tell you: www.cubeofm.com/todo/TodoListMaxKlein.pdf PS: rather funny codename though

236 points by maxklein 16y ago

jrnkntl 16y ago

So, are you hiring?

percept 16y ago
http://spreadsong.com/hiring_on_elance_how_to_get_amazing_people_for_5_more_than_the_awful_ones http://spreadsong.com/hiring_on_elance_how_to_get_amazing_pe...
- chime 16y ago
  > If you’re from India, it’s important to learn English, but it’s not critical. You can get by on Hindi- you can’t get by on Hungarian or Romanian. I don't think that's true at all. You need to learn English to understand programming manuals, teachers, and reference guides. Effective communication is not required but understanding of the English language is a must.
maxklein 16y ago
Actually, you point out a flaw in this model. Hiring has to be very specific - you need people who you can hang around with for a month and they don't drive you crazy with their teeth grinding or something. So my hiring would have to be very careful and would have to lean towards people who are similar in age and interest to the rest of the team.
- jrnkntl 16y ago
  True. For our startup we experienced the same; we were working with a team of 3 and we could just camp out at one of our houses for a week and do dev'ing during the day and relaxing/drinking in the evenings. When we hired a 4th guy to help out these weeks turned from awesome and productive to a sluggish pita week. He produced great work but hanging around with him in the evenings was more stressing and tiring than all the work together.
- deleted 16y ago
  [deleted]
- smiler 16y ago
  Similar age and interest? You can't discriminate based on age or interest - that's illegal
  - maxklein 16y ago
    I would not put out an ad asking for people to hire, rather I'd work with people on project basis, and if I found one that is a good fit, I'd ask him to join. Would that be illegal also?
    - Psyonic 16y ago
      Seems unlikely. Also, given how small your company is, it'd be nearly impossible for someone to prove you've discriminated based on any particular factor, as opposed to just being selective. Not enough employees to demonstrate a pattern. So I doubt this should even be a concern for you.
  - mrduncan 16y ago
    I assume you're talking about the US (apologies if you aren't) - interest is not a protected class. The following are protected groups: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protected_class Edit: See also http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_VII#Title_VII http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_VII#Title_VII I'll also state the obvious here - I'm not a lawyer and you shouldn't trust legal advice you receive on the internet.
  - petercooper 16y ago
    In the real world, and especially in small companies, people eventually hire people they like and get a good feeling about. You're just not allowed to air your preferences in certain areas or restrict the /chance/ to different people. Behind closed doors, though, nothing is any better than before all these laws. If one didn't want to hire someone with quality "X", is their back-room thinking /really/ going to be entirely non-discriminatory? No chance.
    - _delirium 16y ago
- j_baker 16y ago
  That's not a lot different from how you'd do hiring for a face-to-face company though.
- numbchuckskills 16y ago
  yup..definitely an illegal hiring practice (age discrimination); but confirms my suspicion that this is not a totally legitimate company anyways.

vpdn 16y ago

I wonder what kind of business generates 40k a month with three people remotely scattered around the globe. Sounds like a pretty awesome model. Care to share?

maxklein 16y ago
iPhone mostly, and I'm not the only one, check out http://twitter.com/spreadsong http://twitter.com/spreadsong, they make even more!
- exit 16y ago
  so most of your revenue comes from the "Art you should know" app, listed on cubeofm.com ? or do you have products not listed there?
  - pragmatic 16y ago
    Yes, I'm also curious. One iphone app generates 40k of income a month @ $.99 per unit? Interesting. I'm surprised more people aren't discussing that, rather than the "omfg you travel" and blar blar blar...
    - barmstrong 16y ago
      Totally agree...I'm pretty floored that this art app is generating $40k a month. Would not have guessed that. Congrats man. That's newsworthy.
  - jcl 16y ago
    He describes his business in a past HN post: "I sell apps on the app store. A lot of small cheap apps." http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1060019 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1060019
    - megablast 16y ago
      It start to make sense when he talks about the people in China.

djb_hackernews 16y ago

I like how he refers to his "programmer" like it's his pet monkey. Sounds like a great plan, but is it sustainable? Is it really solving the problem? Edit: iPhone apps. Not sustainable. OP even agrees. http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1060019 http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=1060019

ukdm 16y ago
If the company generates 40k a month without expanding, and the break costs 2.8K a month then it is sustainable. But the trips are a clear aid to expansion meaning potentially a lot more revene generation. So it's actually in the interests of the company to do this from what he is saying.
- djb_hackernews 16y ago
  eh, it was 40k for just one month. No mention of previous months and not enough information to predict future months. Not convinced it's sustainable given the information.
  - maxklein 16y ago
    Last 6 months have been high enough to sustain this, but who knows that the future will bring. If ever income drops down, then one would simply stop this, and look for solutions that fit the income level.

brk 16y ago

The concept seems cool, but if people really do have family lives, a month away is too long (IMO). I also think the 5 month cycle between trips could cause a lot of repetitions of falling back into a boredom mode. Seems more like 1 week together every 8 weeks would be more manageable and logical overall.

maxklein 16y ago
Yes, but very expensive. The trips are not cheap at $700 a flight. Ship captains and oil rig engineers leave their family for 6 weeks or more at a time. There are some people for whom this type of travel is workable, and some for whom it is not. If oil rig engineers can keep families and be away so much, so can programmers.
- mrkurt 16y ago
  Oil rig engineers have to be away that much, or they're no longer going to be oil rig engineers. They also make disproportionately more money doing that particular job than they would if they did something else. There's no natural requirement for programmers to leave their home/families (unless they're consulting). I suspect you're not giving your employees "hazard" pay either, are you? If it were me, I'd want to bring my family along and turn it into a work vacation.
  - maxklein 16y ago
    But what if this is condition of the job? When you apply, you are informed that you have to do this. If its unacceptable, you simply do something else.
    - omgsean 16y ago
      Then you might miss out on a lot of talented people, because being away for a month at a time is a strange requirement for a programmer. Most people have families, friends, significant others, pets, or WoW guilds they simply don't want to be away from for a month at a time. The emotional toll of homesickness could very easily end up costing you. Not to mention, if your employees are in committed relationships you're also subjecting them to a month without sex. I don't know if it's worth $2800/month to have two months a year where your employees are homesick and sexually frustrated.

Alex63 16y ago

Aren't there tax implications for "working" in another country?

terryjsmith 16y ago
Most countries would define "working" as earning money from an employer within that country itself, hence depriving citizens of that country of a prospective job.
- maigret 16y ago
  That's wrong. I know from big corps that employees always have to ask for work permission when going to the US (or other countries) for things like development, even for one week. For most countries in the world you actually need a work permission to do that. Single exception is when you do customers meetings all the time and have a secretary typing for you.
  - mallipeddi 16y ago
    Except no one can verify what you do exactly. You always tell the immigration officer at the airport (if he/she asks you) that you're visiting for "meetings". But who does meetings 9-5 every day for 2-3 weeks? Basically you're OK as long as you don't get paid for your work there. My friend works in the oil/gas industry and he keeps flying to different countries frequently and works there for almost 3-4 weeks. But he doesn't get paid in that country (he gets some per-diem allowance but that's all).
arethuza 16y ago
There certainly can be - I had a colleague who was working in the US for our UK based company and after a mix up by the tax advisers he ended up being taxed twice.
gaius 16y ago
Not if you're paid in your home country in your home currency. This is how consulting firms do it.

joubert 16y ago

For a big project, I once recommended to my boss to put us all on a yacht off Key West.

oz 16y ago
How'd it work out?
- joubert 16y ago
  he smiled

zenocon 16y ago

I do something similar, although not as lavish. I'm an independent consultant, and I typically work 4-5 weeks at home, and then co-locate for one week at the client to do planning and design for the next iteration. I've found this to be a perfect balance. I can relate to what he says about the isolation -- missing the camaraderie and sharing in small victories or frustrations. On the other hand, not having to drive into an office every day is bliss. It is a balancing act...you have to find what fits for you and your team.

kixxauth 16y ago

OK, so how about some ideas for a bootstrapped company that is no where close to making $40k a month (yet)? In fact, we work remotely for the freedom it offers, but also because we can't afford a space.

mseebach 16y ago
It comes down to whether you can afford the flights to bring the team together. If you can, get a regular, non-luxury cabin/summerhouse in the countryside for a week. Beer in the fridge, hamburgers on the grill and a bonfire at night works every bit as well as Bangkok nightlife for bonding. Good internet might be an issue, but if you bring a 3G modem and a router, and spend some time setting up a server, so you can bring a local repository, build-server, test-server etc., you should be able to get by. I've thought about equipping a summerhouse for this model, as a business (good chairs, good desks, good internet aren't usually found in summer houses), mostly aimed at teams that need to get out of the office to bond, kick-start a project etc.

starkfist 16y ago

I've worked at a company that operated like this. It's great if the company is the only thing going in your life, and that's how you like it. It's not great if you want to take a night class, or have a regular volunteer obligation (I was a math tutor) or play on an after work sports team, or are in an amateur orchestra, or have a regular fitness training regimen, or are dating, or have a garden, or a dog, or simply don't like living in hotels. For me, the end result was having a life not unlike George Clooney's in "Up in The Air." Edit: it's actually quite similar to a management consultant's schedule. Except instead of Bangkok, you end up in Houston.

maukdaddy 16y ago
Houston? You're damn lucky if you end up in Houston! More likely you're in Ames, Iowa or Ft. Wayne, Indiana.
gaius 16y ago
Consulting is far more brutal. Out Monday, back Friday, every week, unless you're between projects. On the upside, you do get weekends off. On the downside, you'll spend all weekend either sleeping or doing chores. I did get to go to some cool places as a consultant, but the truth is, airports, taxis, meeting rooms and hotels are the same everywhere in the world. Having great colleagues is a must, there are some good times to be had. But you can't live like that for more than a few years without going crazy. One competitor company of ours would enter a new territory by renting a nice house in that country and a few people from other offices would all go live there. Like MTV's The Real World. They would be the nucleus and the rest of the office would be made up of traveling consultants and local hires.

vpdn 16y ago

Beside efficient communication and faster execution, the approach also helps break the lethargic monotony a one man show has to face, be it as a freelancer or an employee in a distributed team. One month 'off' is also a great way to say thanks to everyone for their endless hours and bang-head-against-wall solo session. Before my time, IBM regularly held a WebSphere Services Technical Conference (WSTC) in Las Vegas and annually flew in a big portion of the team for a week to learn about the hottest features. I am sure my colleagues learned a lot, but the stories I am told these days about those days also go beyond and usually start with someone getting lost on The Strip at 3am. It probably doesn't have to be that expensive though. I would assume that renting a house wouldn't take away too much from the experience and benefits but would be significantly cheaper (we had a house which could easily fit up to eight people at the ocean, 60km away from Venice in Italy for 500EUR/week). When the team is right, doing simple stuff such as cooking together can be quite fun and bonding. A related approach: Designer Stefan Sagmeister gives up some of his retirement years and instead takes a one year 'creative break' every seven years. Here's his TED talk: http://www.ted.com/talks/stefan_sagmeister_the_power_of_time_off.html http://www.ted.com/talks/stefan_sagmeister_the_power_of_time...

plinkplonk 16y ago

I don't think this particular model is all that great, but I applaud maxklein's willingness to work with a distributed/remote team. [ rant begins ] For people who (for whatever reason) can't move to Silicon Valley, it is excruciating to watch all the cool startups in the USA and be stuck with an outsourced enterprise maintenance crap job because that is all that is available locally. It sucks when you read a startup dev job description, know that you'd be great at it and the very last sentence is "you should be a US resident. No remote working". I understand why people would want that, but it sucks anyway :-P. I am luckier than most developers in Bangalore - I work on Machine Learning/AI projects, which is where my expertise lies - but working alone is a bit of a drag and if I could work for (just as an example) ReThinkDB without having to move to the USA, I would apply in flash. Working with some of the people I "met" on HN would be awesome. I would happily take a paycut. Once my present project ends, I'll probably do something like this. [ rant ends ] Nutshell: I am very appreciative of any and all attempts by HN folks to work distributed/remote. Go @maxklein!

phaedrus 16y ago
I share your frustration. Although I do live in the USA, not all regions of the USA are equally prosperous. Though patriotism leads people here to shut their eyes to it, the economy in the state I live in has more in common with third world countries than first world. Yet my wife refuses to move to any other state, so I'm forced to watch countless opportunities to advance my career slide by because they don't allow you to work remotely, while I plod along in a job much less technically interesting than what I'm capable of. It's not a case of fewer engineers competing for jobs at a smaller number of technology companies, it's a case of fewer engineers and exactly zero technology companies. It doesn't matter if there are also fewer skilled/educated workers to compete against, it's still division by zero.
- rortian 16y ago
  1. Please show me a state with a per capta gdp that approaches one from the third world. 2. Your wife may be forcing you to stay in state to be with her. Either celebrate your marriage and don't bitch about how it's bringing you down or move on.

gojomo 16y ago

What would folks think of a chain of high-quality coworking sites in low-cost destinations -- so you'd be sure of having comfortable desks, big monitors, reliable bandwidth, whiteboards, and a projector when you need them?

jdminhbg 16y ago
I would use the hell out of such a thing, but I expect that I'm a pretty small niche market.
- wallflower 16y ago
  Possible prototype. Rick's "coworking retreat" "The first location is on a remote island in Bocas del Toro, Panama, right on the ocean, by a coral reef, on an island with no cars. We use solar power, have running water, propane refrigerators, and, of course, reliable Wifi. We're right on the border to Costa Rica, and the closest airport is 30 min away by boat. This is definitely a place for seriously adventurous souls - you can be working online one minute, and snorkel or kayak the next, or go for a hike in the jungle, or snorkel, waterski, ... We have lots of space -- several common areas to hang out, and a place to stay for everyone. We plan to have 6-10 people there at a time... We have a cook who prepares breakfast and lunch; dinner is self-organized; there are a few restaurants in the area, or we cook together. As far as I know, this is still a very new idea, and I'm curious how it works out... We're also looking for anchors/volunteers who would like to spend more time there and help run and improve the place, and to help shape the community. Any thoughts on the idea in general would also be appreciated." http://www.cocovivo.com/ http://www.cocovivo.com/
  - fortes 16y ago
    Cocovivo looks pretty neat. Could be a good working vacation for me. However, there are no indications of cost that I can find -- anyone stayed there before?
    - daveungerer 16y ago

jhgfdghnjmkjnbv 16y ago

I suspect this only worked once for the novelty. It's like sprint sessions at conference or emergency bug fixes at client sites - in terms of lines of code/hour it looks very productive but you can't do it for 30days straight. But congrats for looking at the idea. How many companies pay $100/sq ft for a prestige office space in downtown. Then cram employees into tiny cubicles (because it's costing $100/ft) and make you stay in Motel6 for $100/night on trips.

ryanb 16y ago

I enjoy reading Max's posts, but find it odd how secretive he is about what his actual business is.

deleted 16y ago
[deleted]

alexyim 16y ago

What's his company called again? Why isn't it linked on his blog?

barmstrong 16y ago
I was wondering this too. I assumed it was the homepage: http://www.cubeofm.com http://www.cubeofm.com But it doesn't have much on it and shows 1 or 2 iPhone apps which I'd be a little surprised if they were making $40k a month. What is the product or company?

shin_lao 16y ago

Just a quick comment: never tell the world how much you make, unless required by the law.

barmstrong 16y ago
Why is that? I've seen similar advice elsewhere (for example, 37Signals doesn't disclose revenue etc) but I've never been sure of the reason. Andrew Warner on the other hand talks about how he was initially uncomfortable with it but decided to do it based on the advice of the Neil Patel and it really helped him establish credibility and build traffic: http://mixergy.com/about/ http://mixergy.com/about/
- maxklein 16y ago
  I'll say one thing - nobody gave a shit about me till the very first time I posted revenue figures a few months ago. Then I went from 40 twitter followers to 300 in a couple of days or so.
- matwood 16y ago
  Because when you start talking about good revenue numbers you bring in competitors to the market. This advice is especially true in markets with very low barriers to entry like iPhone apps. Would it be easy to duplicate what maxklein is currently doing? Probably not, but $40k/month is going get some people to at least try and those people may end up being his competitors.

linhat 16y ago

just plain INTERESTING what a simple google search can tell you: www.cubeofm.com/todo/TodoListMaxKlein.pdf PS: rather funny codename though