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Is humility necessary for one to be a great leader? Steve Jobs and General George Patton spring to mind. I agree that a plurality of those traits are commonly

Is humility necessary for one to be a great leader? Steve Jobs and General George Patton spring to mind. I agree that a plurality of those traits are commonly found, I've always wondered about causality and importance. Not disagreeing, genuinely curious about your opinion. Edit: clarity and expansion

ludicast 10y ago
> Is humility necessary for one to be a great leader? Steve Jobs and General George Patton spring to mind. As does (starting tomorrow) the new leader of the free world.
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- cowpig 10y ago
  I think parent post was referring to people who are generally considered to have been excellent leaders (and lack humility).
  - Godel_unicode 10y ago
    I was, although there was some selection bias in my choices; Hitler/Mussolini would certainly qualify for that category. Sidebar: I do find myself biased in judging someones merit as a leader based off of my opinion of their goals. Someone can certainly be a very good leader and lead towards something very bad.
- humanrebar 10y ago
  > As does (starting tomorrow) the new leader of the free world. I'm not a fan of Trump's, but it takes an exotic form of humility to sell gaudy things, have an off-the-wall hairstyle, and be a WWE performer. He's so over the top that there has to be a level of ironic self-awareness in there somewhere.
  - burkaman 10y ago
    Why does there have to be? He's been a public figure for like 40 years, wouldn't someone have seen some evidence of self-awareness by now?
    - humanrebar 10y ago
      I'm saying I don't see how someone gets "slapped around" by Steve Austin without being at least a little meta and a little humble in some weird way.
    - flukus 10y ago
      The election was the evidence, he's very self aware. You just don't like the image he is purposefully projecting.
      - burkaman 10y ago
        What do you mean? Hasn't one of the stories of the election been people constantly saying "he doesn't mean it, it's an act, it's just for votes", and being proven wrong every time? Everyone around him, his kids, his biographers, his employees, all say this is who he really is. So he's obviously aware of the image he's projecting, but I don't think he's self-aware in the way that comment implied, which was that he's just playing a character, and he's certainly never shown any evidence of humility.
  - GavinMcG 10y ago
    I don't think that's humility at all. It might take not caring about what other people think of you, but that's a totally separate dimension than humility.
    - humanrebar 10y ago
      Yeah, I'm open to a better vocabulary word for this, but the point is that it might overlap with "humility in leadership" somehow. Or not. Words are hard.
- skewart 10y ago
  Just because someone is in a position of power doesn't mean they're a good leader. A good leader is someone who people want to actively follow and support. Even though the majority voted against him, Trump did get a lot of votes, and he did draw people to his rallies. But that kind of support for a politician is more like celebrity fandom than wanting to follow a good leader. Much like the Kardashian family, Trump became famous for being famous. He's always been good at getting into the public spotlight. He's never had a reputation for brilliant business leadership. Of course, he may well turn out to be a great leader. A lot of the same basic acting skills required to be a celebrity are helpful in leadership. And after all, other entertainers have turned out to be great leaders. It's just too soon to tell.
  - tbrownaw 10y ago
    Even though the majority voted against him I thought the majority DGAF, and those that did were - as always - within a handful of percent of 50-50?
DiffEq 10y ago
George Patton was confident with out a doubt; but he was humble enough to not be outwitted by his enemies...pretty much that is all the humility you need in his role.
ChuckMcM 10y ago
I think humility is essential for managing discord. General Patton is a good example where a lack of humility got him into trouble and probably limited his career. Steve Jobs is a bit different, humility is being able to hear a different opinion, and I think Steve could hear those opinions based on what I've read about him.
- ryanx435 10y ago
  Leadership and career are not the same thing.
jimbokun 10y ago
Jobs became a much better leader after getting kicked out of Apple and facing near failure with Next.
supernovae 10y ago
I use Cynefin framework to put people into 4 styles of leadership. Steve Jobs was definitely one of those dudes that operate in chaos - the kind of asshole you need to have to be in charge and the new apple appears to be trying to move toward more complicated/complex and a softer tone. So from my perspective, the new CEO is a better "leader" of human beings and Steve Jobs was a better asshole.

ludicast 10y ago

> Is humility necessary for one to be a great leader? Steve Jobs and General George Patton spring to mind. As does (starting tomorrow) the new leader of the free world.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
cowpig 10y ago
I think parent post was referring to people who are generally considered to have been excellent leaders (and lack humility).
- Godel_unicode 10y ago
  I was, although there was some selection bias in my choices; Hitler/Mussolini would certainly qualify for that category. Sidebar: I do find myself biased in judging someones merit as a leader based off of my opinion of their goals. Someone can certainly be a very good leader and lead towards something very bad.
humanrebar 10y ago
> As does (starting tomorrow) the new leader of the free world. I'm not a fan of Trump's, but it takes an exotic form of humility to sell gaudy things, have an off-the-wall hairstyle, and be a WWE performer. He's so over the top that there has to be a level of ironic self-awareness in there somewhere.
- burkaman 10y ago
  Why does there have to be? He's been a public figure for like 40 years, wouldn't someone have seen some evidence of self-awareness by now?
  - humanrebar 10y ago
    I'm saying I don't see how someone gets "slapped around" by Steve Austin without being at least a little meta and a little humble in some weird way.
  - flukus 10y ago
    The election was the evidence, he's very self aware. You just don't like the image he is purposefully projecting.
    - burkaman 10y ago
      What do you mean? Hasn't one of the stories of the election been people constantly saying "he doesn't mean it, it's an act, it's just for votes", and being proven wrong every time? Everyone around him, his kids, his biographers, his employees, all say this is who he really is. So he's obviously aware of the image he's projecting, but I don't think he's self-aware in the way that comment implied, which was that he's just playing a character, and he's certainly never shown any evidence of humility.
- GavinMcG 10y ago
  I don't think that's humility at all. It might take not caring about what other people think of you, but that's a totally separate dimension than humility.
  - humanrebar 10y ago
    Yeah, I'm open to a better vocabulary word for this, but the point is that it might overlap with "humility in leadership" somehow. Or not. Words are hard.
skewart 10y ago
Just because someone is in a position of power doesn't mean they're a good leader. A good leader is someone who people want to actively follow and support. Even though the majority voted against him, Trump did get a lot of votes, and he did draw people to his rallies. But that kind of support for a politician is more like celebrity fandom than wanting to follow a good leader. Much like the Kardashian family, Trump became famous for being famous. He's always been good at getting into the public spotlight. He's never had a reputation for brilliant business leadership. Of course, he may well turn out to be a great leader. A lot of the same basic acting skills required to be a celebrity are helpful in leadership. And after all, other entertainers have turned out to be great leaders. It's just too soon to tell.
- tbrownaw 10y ago
  Even though the majority voted against him I thought the majority DGAF, and those that did were - as always - within a handful of percent of 50-50?

DiffEq 10y ago

George Patton was confident with out a doubt; but he was humble enough to not be outwitted by his enemies...pretty much that is all the humility you need in his role.

ChuckMcM 10y ago

I think humility is essential for managing discord. General Patton is a good example where a lack of humility got him into trouble and probably limited his career. Steve Jobs is a bit different, humility is being able to hear a different opinion, and I think Steve could hear those opinions based on what I've read about him.

ryanx435 10y ago
Leadership and career are not the same thing.

jimbokun 10y ago

Jobs became a much better leader after getting kicked out of Apple and facing near failure with Next.

supernovae 10y ago

I use Cynefin framework to put people into 4 styles of leadership. Steve Jobs was definitely one of those dudes that operate in chaos - the kind of asshole you need to have to be in charge and the new apple appears to be trying to move toward more complicated/complex and a softer tone. So from my perspective, the new CEO is a better "leader" of human beings and Steve Jobs was a better asshole.