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On my last job I had made a verbal deal with the previous CTO in which I would be raised in 6 months time after being hired. So after 6/7 months, I went to nego

On my last job I had made a verbal deal with the previous CTO in which I would be raised in 6 months time after being hired. So after 6/7 months, I went to negotiate a raise with one of the owners and the product manager. I said explicitely that I was quite below market rate and would consider only a raise of at least 20%. The result? I was offered 2%-3%, to be discussed on the next annual review (still some months to go), and the PM said strictly that it would depend on my performance. That happened on a Friday, and I quit the job next Monday. My conclusion: never accept verbal agreements again..

paulddraper 10y ago
> I had made a verbal deal with the previous CTO in which I would be raised in 6 months time after being hired > My conclusion: never accept verbal agreements again. Was the verbal agreement not honored? 2-3% after 6 months is not nothing.
- namiller2 10y ago
  If you read the statement again, it sounded like they gave them a review after 6 months, but told them the raise would come after a year review. So he did have a review, but no raise.
paulddraper 10y ago
> I had made a verbal deal with the previous CTO in which I would be raised in 6 months time after being hired > My conclusion: never accept verbal agreements again. Was the verbal agreement not honored? 2-3% after 6 months is not nothing. It seems your problem was accepted an offer 20% below what you should.
- weaksauce 10y ago
  No. Verbal was 6 months: give raise. Actual was at 6/7 month be told that contingent on performance you would get a raise of 2-3% at 12 months. Being 20% lower than market rate is definitely the problem and a signal that they don't want to pay appropriately. Edit: if you don't value your worth appropriately from the get go, why would the employer?
  - paulddraper 10y ago
    > raise of 2-3% at 12 months Ah, I missed that was delayed.
- enraged_camel 10y ago
  >>It seems your problem was accepting an offer 20% below what you should. Yes, that was indeed his mistake. And so was expecting a 20% raise six months after being hired. That is, frankly, a ridiculous proposition.
  - freehunter 10y ago
    Agreed that taking the low-paying position was a mistake if pay was a priority. Disagree that expecting a raise at the time he was verbally promised a raise was his mistake.
    - EpicEng 10y ago
      He wasn't promised a 20% raise
basseq 10y ago
1. Did you verbally agree to the 20% with the CTO as well? Otherwise, it sounds like they honored the verbal agreement and got a raise after 6 months. It was just less than what you decided you wanted later. 2. Your conclusion is spot on. I've never seen this kind of agreement actually work: it's almost always FUD. If they're not willing to put it in an offer letter, it's not real.
- jventura 10y ago
  The agreement with the CTO was to have a raise after 6 months. There was no previous agreement of a specific number, just a "raise". After 6/7 months I went to talk to one of the founders about that specific issue, i.e. that I was promised a raise, and that I wasn't expecting anything below 20%. I came to know during the time that I work there that was being paid well below my coworkers (and the market rate in general for my position). Their response was that I would only get raised on the next company review (still some months to go, but note that I was promised a raise after 6 months), the raise would be around 2%-3% (note that I said to them, quite direct, that I was being underpaid, at least 20%), and the project manager even said that I would be subjected to a performance review before they would give me a raise. So they failed me at least with 3 things: no raise after 6 months as agreed (still some months to next review), would not raise me enough so I would still be underpaid, and I could even not get raised because I would have to be reviewed first.. Basically, I quit on the next working day, and one or two months later, most of the team got laid off, so there was bigger problems on that specific company..
  - EpicEng 10y ago
    Expecting a 20% raise after six months is ludicrous.
    - mavelikara 10y ago
      He was expecting to be paid the same as his colleagues and the industry standard. That sounds like a fair expectation, irrespective of the percentage raise that implied.
luhn 10y ago
Verbal agreements rarely work out. Even among well-meaning parties, it's far too easy for someone to misremember or misinterpret the agreement. If you do enter a verbal agreement, write it down in an email and send it to the other party. That way there's a paper trail to clarify any disputes.
maverick_iceman 10y ago
Always leave a paper trail. E.g. after your verbal agreement you should have sent an email to the CTO (and others) summarizing the contents of the agreement.
nasalgoat 10y ago
Yes, I learned an important lesson about verbal agreements with my current employer. They're worthless. If they aren't willing to put it on paper, it doesn't exist.

paulddraper 10y ago

> I had made a verbal deal with the previous CTO in which I would be raised in 6 months time after being hired > My conclusion: never accept verbal agreements again. Was the verbal agreement not honored? 2-3% after 6 months is not nothing.

namiller2 10y ago
If you read the statement again, it sounded like they gave them a review after 6 months, but told them the raise would come after a year review. So he did have a review, but no raise.

paulddraper 10y ago

weaksauce 10y ago
No. Verbal was 6 months: give raise. Actual was at 6/7 month be told that contingent on performance you would get a raise of 2-3% at 12 months. Being 20% lower than market rate is definitely the problem and a signal that they don't want to pay appropriately. Edit: if you don't value your worth appropriately from the get go, why would the employer?
- paulddraper 10y ago
  > raise of 2-3% at 12 months Ah, I missed that was delayed.
enraged_camel 10y ago
>>It seems your problem was accepting an offer 20% below what you should. Yes, that was indeed his mistake. And so was expecting a 20% raise six months after being hired. That is, frankly, a ridiculous proposition.
- freehunter 10y ago
  Agreed that taking the low-paying position was a mistake if pay was a priority. Disagree that expecting a raise at the time he was verbally promised a raise was his mistake.
  - EpicEng 10y ago
    He wasn't promised a 20% raise

basseq 10y ago

1. Did you verbally agree to the 20% with the CTO as well? Otherwise, it sounds like they honored the verbal agreement and got a raise after 6 months. It was just less than what you decided you wanted later. 2. Your conclusion is spot on. I've never seen this kind of agreement actually work: it's almost always FUD. If they're not willing to put it in an offer letter, it's not real.

jventura 10y ago
The agreement with the CTO was to have a raise after 6 months. There was no previous agreement of a specific number, just a "raise". After 6/7 months I went to talk to one of the founders about that specific issue, i.e. that I was promised a raise, and that I wasn't expecting anything below 20%. I came to know during the time that I work there that was being paid well below my coworkers (and the market rate in general for my position). Their response was that I would only get raised on the next company review (still some months to go, but note that I was promised a raise after 6 months), the raise would be around 2%-3% (note that I said to them, quite direct, that I was being underpaid, at least 20%), and the project manager even said that I would be subjected to a performance review before they would give me a raise. So they failed me at least with 3 things: no raise after 6 months as agreed (still some months to next review), would not raise me enough so I would still be underpaid, and I could even not get raised because I would have to be reviewed first.. Basically, I quit on the next working day, and one or two months later, most of the team got laid off, so there was bigger problems on that specific company..
- EpicEng 10y ago
  Expecting a 20% raise after six months is ludicrous.
  - mavelikara 10y ago
    He was expecting to be paid the same as his colleagues and the industry standard. That sounds like a fair expectation, irrespective of the percentage raise that implied.

luhn 10y ago

Verbal agreements rarely work out. Even among well-meaning parties, it's far too easy for someone to misremember or misinterpret the agreement. If you do enter a verbal agreement, write it down in an email and send it to the other party. That way there's a paper trail to clarify any disputes.

maverick_iceman 10y ago

Always leave a paper trail. E.g. after your verbal agreement you should have sent an email to the CTO (and others) summarizing the contents of the agreement.

nasalgoat 10y ago

Yes, I learned an important lesson about verbal agreements with my current employer. They're worthless. If they aren't willing to put it on paper, it doesn't exist.