6 ms·

My last job gave me a ~2% raise the first year and a ~1% the next. I left shortly thereafter. Should have left after the first lousy raise. The previous job

by jcadam 10y ago

My last job gave me a ~2% raise the first year and a ~1% the next. I left shortly thereafter. Should have left after the first lousy raise. The previous job gave me back-to-back 1% raises. Left that job after two years as well. Should have left at the one year mark. I've been in my current job a few months. I'll stick around till the first annual raise cycle to see how they treat me. I don't think I'll give this employer a second chance if they screw up the first one (Hint: if your raise doesn't at least cover inflation + offset the costs associated with your annual medical benefits cuts -- I consider it a pay cut, and I'm not going to be happy. In fact, getting a "Congratulations on your (1%) annual raise" email from corporate HR is probably not going to get the reaction you were anticipating). I actually had one employer that gave me an 8% raise at the two-year mark. So they got another year out of me (until the mass layoffs came).

battlebot 10y ago
Don't hold your breath. Even superstars are fungible these days.
jventura 10y ago
On my last job I had made a verbal deal with the previous CTO in which I would be raised in 6 months time after being hired. So after 6/7 months, I went to negotiate a raise with one of the owners and the product manager. I said explicitely that I was quite below market rate and would consider only a raise of at least 20%. The result? I was offered 2%-3%, to be discussed on the next annual review (still some months to go), and the PM said strictly that it would depend on my performance. That happened on a Friday, and I quit the job next Monday. My conclusion: never accept verbal agreements again..
- paulddraper 10y ago
  > I had made a verbal deal with the previous CTO in which I would be raised in 6 months time after being hired > My conclusion: never accept verbal agreements again. Was the verbal agreement not honored? 2-3% after 6 months is not nothing.
  - namiller2 10y ago
    If you read the statement again, it sounded like they gave them a review after 6 months, but told them the raise would come after a year review. So he did have a review, but no raise.
- paulddraper 10y ago
  > I had made a verbal deal with the previous CTO in which I would be raised in 6 months time after being hired > My conclusion: never accept verbal agreements again. Was the verbal agreement not honored? 2-3% after 6 months is not nothing. It seems your problem was accepted an offer 20% below what you should.
  - weaksauce 10y ago
    No. Verbal was 6 months: give raise. Actual was at 6/7 month be told that contingent on performance you would get a raise of 2-3% at 12 months. Being 20% lower than market rate is definitely the problem and a signal that they don't want to pay appropriately. Edit: if you don't value your worth appropriately from the get go, why would the employer?
    - paulddraper 10y ago
      > raise of 2-3% at 12 months Ah, I missed that was delayed.
  - enraged_camel 10y ago
    >>It seems your problem was accepting an offer 20% below what you should. Yes, that was indeed his mistake. And so was expecting a 20% raise six months after being hired. That is, frankly, a ridiculous proposition.
    - freehunter 10y ago
      Agreed that taking the low-paying position was a mistake if pay was a priority. Disagree that expecting a raise at the time he was verbally promised a raise was his mistake.
      - EpicEng 10y ago
        He wasn't promised a 20% raise
- basseq 10y ago
  1. Did you verbally agree to the 20% with the CTO as well? Otherwise, it sounds like they honored the verbal agreement and got a raise after 6 months. It was just less than what you decided you wanted later. 2. Your conclusion is spot on. I've never seen this kind of agreement actually work: it's almost always FUD. If they're not willing to put it in an offer letter, it's not real.
  - jventura 10y ago
    The agreement with the CTO was to have a raise after 6 months. There was no previous agreement of a specific number, just a "raise". After 6/7 months I went to talk to one of the founders about that specific issue, i.e. that I was promised a raise, and that I wasn't expecting anything below 20%. I came to know during the time that I work there that was being paid well below my coworkers (and the market rate in general for my position). Their response was that I would only get raised on the next company review (still some months to go, but note that I was promised a raise after 6 months), the raise would be around 2%-3% (note that I said to them, quite direct, that I was being underpaid, at least 20%), and the project manager even said that I would be subjected to a performance review before they would give me a raise. So they failed me at least with 3 things: no raise after 6 months as agreed (still some months to next review), would not raise me enough so I would still be underpaid, and I could even not get raised because I would have to be reviewed first.. Basically, I quit on the next working day, and one or two months later, most of the team got laid off, so there was bigger problems on that specific company..
    - EpicEng 10y ago
      Expecting a 20% raise after six months is ludicrous.
      - mavelikara 10y ago
        He was expecting to be paid the same as his colleagues and the industry standard. That sounds like a fair expectation, irrespective of the percentage raise that implied.
- luhn 10y ago
  Verbal agreements rarely work out. Even among well-meaning parties, it's far too easy for someone to misremember or misinterpret the agreement. If you do enter a verbal agreement, write it down in an email and send it to the other party. That way there's a paper trail to clarify any disputes.
- maverick_iceman 10y ago
  Always leave a paper trail. E.g. after your verbal agreement you should have sent an email to the CTO (and others) summarizing the contents of the agreement.
- nasalgoat 10y ago
  Yes, I learned an important lesson about verbal agreements with my current employer. They're worthless. If they aren't willing to put it on paper, it doesn't exist.
omouse 10y ago
It's funny to be in this situation where interest rates are low, and returns on investment are usually low (at least for consumer accessible investment vehicles), but then businesses and the owners/executives are making bank.
megablast 10y ago
You would have been better of talking to them, asking for more of a raise. I got 60k raise over 2 years because I pushed for it.
- jcadam 10y ago
  Well, I did try talking to my boss at my last job, but he replied with "Sorry, I tried to get you more, but corporate wouldn't budge." Which was probably an honest statement. Raises were centrally managed by 'Human Capital Management', and individual supervisors had pretty much zero say in the size of their employees raises. As it happened, my departure was ill-timed (for them) and I'm pretty sure it cost them far more than it would have to just give me a decent frickin' raise (seriously, 3-5% and I would have stayed).

by jcadam 10y ago

battlebot 10y ago

Don't hold your breath. Even superstars are fungible these days.

jventura 10y ago

On my last job I had made a verbal deal with the previous CTO in which I would be raised in 6 months time after being hired. So after 6/7 months, I went to negotiate a raise with one of the owners and the product manager. I said explicitely that I was quite below market rate and would consider only a raise of at least 20%. The result? I was offered 2%-3%, to be discussed on the next annual review (still some months to go), and the PM said strictly that it would depend on my performance. That happened on a Friday, and I quit the job next Monday. My conclusion: never accept verbal agreements again..

paulddraper 10y ago
> I had made a verbal deal with the previous CTO in which I would be raised in 6 months time after being hired > My conclusion: never accept verbal agreements again. Was the verbal agreement not honored? 2-3% after 6 months is not nothing.
- namiller2 10y ago
  If you read the statement again, it sounded like they gave them a review after 6 months, but told them the raise would come after a year review. So he did have a review, but no raise.
paulddraper 10y ago
> I had made a verbal deal with the previous CTO in which I would be raised in 6 months time after being hired > My conclusion: never accept verbal agreements again. Was the verbal agreement not honored? 2-3% after 6 months is not nothing. It seems your problem was accepted an offer 20% below what you should.
- weaksauce 10y ago
  No. Verbal was 6 months: give raise. Actual was at 6/7 month be told that contingent on performance you would get a raise of 2-3% at 12 months. Being 20% lower than market rate is definitely the problem and a signal that they don't want to pay appropriately. Edit: if you don't value your worth appropriately from the get go, why would the employer?
  - paulddraper 10y ago
    > raise of 2-3% at 12 months Ah, I missed that was delayed.
- enraged_camel 10y ago
  >>It seems your problem was accepting an offer 20% below what you should. Yes, that was indeed his mistake. And so was expecting a 20% raise six months after being hired. That is, frankly, a ridiculous proposition.
  - freehunter 10y ago
    Agreed that taking the low-paying position was a mistake if pay was a priority. Disagree that expecting a raise at the time he was verbally promised a raise was his mistake.
    - EpicEng 10y ago
      He wasn't promised a 20% raise
basseq 10y ago
1. Did you verbally agree to the 20% with the CTO as well? Otherwise, it sounds like they honored the verbal agreement and got a raise after 6 months. It was just less than what you decided you wanted later. 2. Your conclusion is spot on. I've never seen this kind of agreement actually work: it's almost always FUD. If they're not willing to put it in an offer letter, it's not real.
- jventura 10y ago
  The agreement with the CTO was to have a raise after 6 months. There was no previous agreement of a specific number, just a "raise". After 6/7 months I went to talk to one of the founders about that specific issue, i.e. that I was promised a raise, and that I wasn't expecting anything below 20%. I came to know during the time that I work there that was being paid well below my coworkers (and the market rate in general for my position). Their response was that I would only get raised on the next company review (still some months to go, but note that I was promised a raise after 6 months), the raise would be around 2%-3% (note that I said to them, quite direct, that I was being underpaid, at least 20%), and the project manager even said that I would be subjected to a performance review before they would give me a raise. So they failed me at least with 3 things: no raise after 6 months as agreed (still some months to next review), would not raise me enough so I would still be underpaid, and I could even not get raised because I would have to be reviewed first.. Basically, I quit on the next working day, and one or two months later, most of the team got laid off, so there was bigger problems on that specific company..
  - EpicEng 10y ago
    Expecting a 20% raise after six months is ludicrous.
    - mavelikara 10y ago
      He was expecting to be paid the same as his colleagues and the industry standard. That sounds like a fair expectation, irrespective of the percentage raise that implied.
luhn 10y ago
Verbal agreements rarely work out. Even among well-meaning parties, it's far too easy for someone to misremember or misinterpret the agreement. If you do enter a verbal agreement, write it down in an email and send it to the other party. That way there's a paper trail to clarify any disputes.
maverick_iceman 10y ago
Always leave a paper trail. E.g. after your verbal agreement you should have sent an email to the CTO (and others) summarizing the contents of the agreement.
nasalgoat 10y ago
Yes, I learned an important lesson about verbal agreements with my current employer. They're worthless. If they aren't willing to put it on paper, it doesn't exist.

omouse 10y ago

It's funny to be in this situation where interest rates are low, and returns on investment are usually low (at least for consumer accessible investment vehicles), but then businesses and the owners/executives are making bank.

megablast 10y ago

You would have been better of talking to them, asking for more of a raise. I got 60k raise over 2 years because I pushed for it.

jcadam 10y ago
Well, I did try talking to my boss at my last job, but he replied with "Sorry, I tried to get you more, but corporate wouldn't budge." Which was probably an honest statement. Raises were centrally managed by 'Human Capital Management', and individual supervisors had pretty much zero say in the size of their employees raises. As it happened, my departure was ill-timed (for them) and I'm pretty sure it cost them far more than it would have to just give me a decent frickin' raise (seriously, 3-5% and I would have stayed).