8 ms·

Is there a build available which doesn't require users to sign up for a Nylas ID? The support page states that "If you’re using N1 against our open source sync

by yoasif_ 10y ago

Is there a build available which doesn't require users to sign up for a Nylas ID? The support page states that "If you’re using N1 against our open source sync engine, you’ll still need to create a Nylas ID." Given the privacy policy says that Nylas shares information with third parties and that they can "make a copy of the entire contents of the applicable email inbox, calendar, and contact book", it doesn't feel like a traditional email client to me. https://support.nylas.com/hc/en-us/articles/220974588-How-is-a-Nylas-ID-different-from-my-email-address- https://support.nylas.com/hc/en-us/articles/220974588-How-is...

SparkyMcUnicorn 10y ago
It looks like you need to run your own sync engine. https://github.com/nylas/N1/blob/master/CONFIGURATION.md https://github.com/nylas/N1/blob/master/CONFIGURATION.md https://github.com/nylas/sync-engine https://github.com/nylas/sync-engine Edit: Not sure what the latest update changes yet (much of the sync engine is local now?), but this thread looks like it has the latest info so far. https://github.com/nylas/N1/issues/3166 https://github.com/nylas/N1/issues/3166
shreve 10y ago
That's an integral part of how it works. Their sync servers download your email, then sync with your local client. You need that ID to log into their server and access your individual email accounts.
- OJFord 10y ago
  Not any more, per the post, the performance boost comes from using Gmail's, Exchange's, et al. APIs directly rather than remote IMAP sync + provide REST API for the client. Cloud now used for "much much much much less" [0] - just tracking and stuff. Sync-engine also (?) runs locally now, I'm not totally clear on how this works but there's apparently some currently closed source stuff to become open 'soon', so it should become clearer exactly what's going on. There's also apparently some details to follow on their engineering blog [1]. [0] - https://github.com/nylas/N1/issues/3166 https://github.com/nylas/N1/issues/3166 [1] - https://nylas.com/blog https://nylas.com/blog
- karim 10y ago
  Hey – I'm an engineer at Nylas. This used to be true but Nylas Mail now uses a totally client-side sync engine. If you're on the Basic edition, your emails never touch our servers. This was a huge undertaking (it's not easy to port a sync-engine written in Python and designed to run on servers to run efficiently on desktop machines) and is the major reason why we can now offer a freemium service. We're going to put out a blog post soon with more engineering details soon!
  - OJFord 10y ago
    > We're going to put out a blog post soon with more engineering details soon! Looking forward to it! I think for this audience, this blog post raises more questions than it answers. I'm a student, I can't justify $12pm (or $7pm) for an email client however good it is - but I'll gladly use the Basic version and continue contributing; pay a little back that way :)
  - ryanolsonx 10y ago
    Based on what you say here, why not have the user create a Nylas Mail account for advanced features once they decide to upgrade? That would make it so that users (that only use the Basic version) can have a privacy-safe email client, if it doesn't even talk to your servers in the first place.
  - philfreo 10y ago
    That's awesome to hear. However I see Nylas still is requesting full "view and manage your mail" OAuth permissions server-side. Is that something that can go away? https://www.dropbox.com/s/s37onyv41w91zi0/Screenshot%202017-01-17%2016.04.06.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/s37onyv41w91zi0/Screenshot%202017-...
echion 10y ago
At first I thought "shares information with third parties and that they can [copy your email]" (emphasis mine) meant that the third parties can see & copy your email. I can't find anything like that language in Nylas' privacy policy (https://nylas.com/privacy-policy/ https://nylas.com/privacy-policy/) and so I guess your "they" meant "Nylas". Given their precise business model is making synchronized copies of your email inbox, that doesn't sound very unreasonable to me.
e0m 10y ago
Nylas Mail Basic does NOT store your mail data in the cloud. It still uses a cloud service for some features (like read receipts), but all the data is local on your disk and auth credentials stored in your native OS keychain. Nylas Pro currently syncs in the cloud to enable some of the pro features not currently offered in Nylas Mail Basic and to provide a much easier to use modern API wrapper around mail data. The cloud syncing infrastructure is open source and you can run it yourself and inspect the code. All editions (both Basic and Pro) need a Nylas ID. This lets us manage subscriptions for those who want to upgrade. The code is open source on GitHub (nylas/N1). You can fork & run yourself without a Nylas ID. You just won't get any cloud-enabled features. We never send mail, contact, or calendar data to 3rd parties. We do, however, use 3rd parties for basic usage and performance statistics and self-host as much reporting infrastructure (like Sentry) as possible. (I build Nylas Mail)
- maglavaitss 10y ago
  So we need a cloud service for "read receipts"? Interesting.
  - timdorr 10y ago
    Since those are accomplished via a tracking pixel in the email and you need to serve that image from a public server, then yes, you'll need a cloud service to run that. As stated before, you can choose to run that server yourself if you don't trust Nylas with that kind of data.
    - frik 10y ago
      Neither MS Outlook nor GMail use a tracking pixel. Such pixel are only used by newsletter or shaddy spam senders.
      - davecap1 10y ago
        There are other mail clients that use tracking pixels, like Polymail and Canary.
sreenadh 10y ago
This was exact issue I was having with Nylas. I dont understand why they want me to sign up with their server. I switched back to thunderbird now.
lxfontes 10y ago
Nylas privacy policy ( https://nylas.com/privacy-policy/ https://nylas.com/privacy-policy/ ) is the single reason why I don't use it. (puts Stallman's hat on) This is not free as in freedom.
- nvr219 10y ago
  :rms2:
- jamesgeck0 10y ago
  The privacy policy looks like it should mostly apply to Nylas N1, not the newer Nylas Mail? The policy hasn't been updated since May of last year.

by yoasif_ 10y ago

SparkyMcUnicorn 10y ago

It looks like you need to run your own sync engine. https://github.com/nylas/N1/blob/master/CONFIGURATION.md https://github.com/nylas/N1/blob/master/CONFIGURATION.md https://github.com/nylas/sync-engine https://github.com/nylas/sync-engine Edit: Not sure what the latest update changes yet (much of the sync engine is local now?), but this thread looks like it has the latest info so far. https://github.com/nylas/N1/issues/3166 https://github.com/nylas/N1/issues/3166

shreve 10y ago

That's an integral part of how it works. Their sync servers download your email, then sync with your local client. You need that ID to log into their server and access your individual email accounts.

OJFord 10y ago
Not any more, per the post, the performance boost comes from using Gmail's, Exchange's, et al. APIs directly rather than remote IMAP sync + provide REST API for the client. Cloud now used for "much much much much less" [0] - just tracking and stuff. Sync-engine also (?) runs locally now, I'm not totally clear on how this works but there's apparently some currently closed source stuff to become open 'soon', so it should become clearer exactly what's going on. There's also apparently some details to follow on their engineering blog [1]. [0] - https://github.com/nylas/N1/issues/3166 https://github.com/nylas/N1/issues/3166 [1] - https://nylas.com/blog https://nylas.com/blog
karim 10y ago
Hey – I'm an engineer at Nylas. This used to be true but Nylas Mail now uses a totally client-side sync engine. If you're on the Basic edition, your emails never touch our servers. This was a huge undertaking (it's not easy to port a sync-engine written in Python and designed to run on servers to run efficiently on desktop machines) and is the major reason why we can now offer a freemium service. We're going to put out a blog post soon with more engineering details soon!
- OJFord 10y ago
  > We're going to put out a blog post soon with more engineering details soon! Looking forward to it! I think for this audience, this blog post raises more questions than it answers. I'm a student, I can't justify $12pm (or $7pm) for an email client however good it is - but I'll gladly use the Basic version and continue contributing; pay a little back that way :)
- ryanolsonx 10y ago
  Based on what you say here, why not have the user create a Nylas Mail account for advanced features once they decide to upgrade? That would make it so that users (that only use the Basic version) can have a privacy-safe email client, if it doesn't even talk to your servers in the first place.
- philfreo 10y ago
  That's awesome to hear. However I see Nylas still is requesting full "view and manage your mail" OAuth permissions server-side. Is that something that can go away? https://www.dropbox.com/s/s37onyv41w91zi0/Screenshot%202017-01-17%2016.04.06.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/s37onyv41w91zi0/Screenshot%202017-...

echion 10y ago

At first I thought "shares information with third parties and that they can [copy your email]" (emphasis mine) meant that the third parties can see & copy your email. I can't find anything like that language in Nylas' privacy policy (https://nylas.com/privacy-policy/ https://nylas.com/privacy-policy/) and so I guess your "they" meant "Nylas". Given their precise business model is making synchronized copies of your email inbox, that doesn't sound very unreasonable to me.

e0m 10y ago

Nylas Mail Basic does NOT store your mail data in the cloud. It still uses a cloud service for some features (like read receipts), but all the data is local on your disk and auth credentials stored in your native OS keychain. Nylas Pro currently syncs in the cloud to enable some of the pro features not currently offered in Nylas Mail Basic and to provide a much easier to use modern API wrapper around mail data. The cloud syncing infrastructure is open source and you can run it yourself and inspect the code. All editions (both Basic and Pro) need a Nylas ID. This lets us manage subscriptions for those who want to upgrade. The code is open source on GitHub (nylas/N1). You can fork & run yourself without a Nylas ID. You just won't get any cloud-enabled features. We never send mail, contact, or calendar data to 3rd parties. We do, however, use 3rd parties for basic usage and performance statistics and self-host as much reporting infrastructure (like Sentry) as possible. (I build Nylas Mail)

maglavaitss 10y ago
So we need a cloud service for "read receipts"? Interesting.
- timdorr 10y ago
  Since those are accomplished via a tracking pixel in the email and you need to serve that image from a public server, then yes, you'll need a cloud service to run that. As stated before, you can choose to run that server yourself if you don't trust Nylas with that kind of data.
  - frik 10y ago
    Neither MS Outlook nor GMail use a tracking pixel. Such pixel are only used by newsletter or shaddy spam senders.
    - davecap1 10y ago
      There are other mail clients that use tracking pixels, like Polymail and Canary.

sreenadh 10y ago

This was exact issue I was having with Nylas. I dont understand why they want me to sign up with their server. I switched back to thunderbird now.

lxfontes 10y ago

Nylas privacy policy ( https://nylas.com/privacy-policy/ https://nylas.com/privacy-policy/ ) is the single reason why I don't use it. (puts Stallman's hat on) This is not free as in freedom.

nvr219 10y ago
:rms2:
jamesgeck0 10y ago
The privacy policy looks like it should mostly apply to Nylas N1, not the newer Nylas Mail? The policy hasn't been updated since May of last year.