6 ms·

The Necessity of Self-Help Lit

54 points by diodorus 10y ago

edgarvaldes 10y ago
My problem with self-help books is: The key ideas they contain can be expressed in a single page.
- grzm 10y ago
  That may be the case. Many people don't automatically see all of the implications that follow from reading a set of principles on a single page. Reading how they apply in different circumstances can be very helpful. Different people have different learning styles. And the repetition in a single book—or even after reading multiple books—can be very useful as well. What works for you may not work for someone else.
- sAuronas 10y ago
  The key idea, if there is only one to be had, still has to be "owned" by the reader and that requires knowing the why. I took more issue with the notion that having an MD behind your name makes what you say more valid (Deepak Chopra) versus just being some dude who teaches "neural linguistic programming" (Anthony Robbins). Having read (3 books each) both Dr Chopra and Mr Robbins I can tell you that the former writes books that are so unscientific as to make you wonder if he forgot everything he learned in med school or is just making so much money that he doesn't care how much he metaphysically babbles about nothingness [sic]. (Pretty sure I know the answer.) No matter what you think about Tony Robbins, you have to admit some of his ideas have traction. If you read enough of these books you'll find yourself making some improvements to your life. Malcolm Gladwell's "Blink", etc, were hugely impressive to me if only for his ability to tell the story of achievement and to make you believe genius-level ability is attainable, notwithstanding the allegations of plagiarism and the recycling of ideas. The real issue today is that there are so many motivational speakers/writers that it's become impossible not to waste a lot of time trying to discern the steak from the bullshit.
  - theonething 10y ago
    > The real issue today is that there are so many motivational speakers/writers that it's become impossible not to waste a lot of time trying to discern the steak from the bullshit. This sounds "ripe for disruption." Any startups trying to solve this?
    - sAuronas 10y ago
      You could...
ranko 10y ago
Browsing the "self-help" shelf at my local charity shop, I came across Tarzan of the Apes and Breakfast at Tiffany's. I like to think that this is a clever deconstruction of the genre.
- marcosdumay 10y ago
  I brought my copy of 1984 from the non-fiction section of the bookstore.
  - InitialLastName 10y ago
    I sometimes leave copies of the Bible in the fiction section.
sharkweek 10y ago
An anecdote, that I at least find kind of funny in my own life: I deal with diagnosed anxiety and OCD, and thus have read dozens of self-help books on working with these issues. A funny thing happened when I started reading the genre, in that I found myself somewhat addicted to it after the first 3-4 books. I brought this up to my therapist after about the 10th book in two months, and he joked but also seriously said, ok, time to take a break, pick a few unrelated and fun fiction books and go to town on those instead. Not offering medical advice here as everyone is different, but I've noticed a gradual decline in symptoms when I'm able to focus less on the issues themselves.
- blatherard 10y ago
  Thanks for sharing that. I am a moderator of an addiction-related subreddit, and recently a commenter made a short list of things they had struggled with which included (unsurprisingly) alcohol, tobacco and drugs. But they also included an unhealthy dependence on 'self-help' which was my first encounter with this idea. So you're not alone!
  - sharkweek 10y ago
    I'm pretty sure people with addictive personalities can also get extremely addicted to their own thinking (stealing this idea from DFW's Infinite Jest, but I agree with it)
    - stinkytaco 10y ago
      Funny you should bring up DFW, who was apparently quite into self-help books himself: https://theawl.com/inside-david-foster-wallaces-private-self-help-library-f84d5f56fccd#.32kd1v8vm https://theawl.com/inside-david-foster-wallaces-private-self...
- mistermann 10y ago
  I'm not advocating this approach, simply asking: have you investigated nootropics? I am just starting to experiment myself and it seems some if it may be helping with anxiety, but will take more experimentation to say something more confidently.
spraak 10y ago
> On the other hand, the self-sufficiency and self-mastery promoted in much self-help are, as critics suggest, illusions. We do not make ourselves, and we cannot validate ourselves. Imagining that we can will bring not independence or confidence or trust, but, ironically, a lot of anxious searching for the approval of others—or a return to the self-help literature for the key to that elusive autonomy. What?! How then can we validate and make ourselves? Is the author a proponent of submission to a god? I don't understand how there is any other way to be validated, because one can never truly be validated from the outside anyways - there will always be external critics. Edit: formatting
- pjmorris 10y ago
  There's a step short of submission to a deity: peer-review. I suspect the author meant something more like 'We do not solely make ourselves, and we cannot solely validate ourselves.'
  - spraak 10y ago
    That's still validation from the outside, from which one will never receive the clearest, most honest review, though I admit it can be helpful on the journey. The highest clarity comes from within, which is what all paths of truth teach (and in fact, what self-help books are often based on, inspired by, or try -- and sometimes succeed at -- teaching)
    - pjmorris 10y ago
      I have found my highest clarity to occasionally be obscured by clouds, hence my tendency to look outward once in awhile.
      - spraak 10y ago
        Yes, me too. Though I don't think it will be the ultimate return. I do believe that someone else who has reached the unreachable can point the way, but that at that point it will still come from within.
agentgt 10y ago
Many people do not realize that one can get professional help that does have academic rigor and will be somewhat paid for (depending on insurance coverage). If you can get over the still present social taboo of going to a therapist I highly recommend it both for relationships and personal growth (there is not just CBT but some newer forms that I have forgotten the names of). If you don't like a therapist you can easily switch and most are happy to refer and connect you with others (if they don't they are not a professional). If you are willing to be slightly experimental (and if you are buying a book I would imagine you are) there are also Universities and other Institutions that are always looking for participants in studies. Another extremely pro to a professional therapist is that they keep longitudinal records. Many people have a hard time tracking their progress and if they do it still might not be accurate compared to a third party observer.
- eduren 10y ago
  How might someone approach/shop therapists (CBT or otherwise) with the goal being personal growth? I've given thought to how useful a professional opinion may be (most of my barriers are self-inflicted), but I'm unsure about how much I'd get out of it and how to present my needs to the therapist at first. Any advice? PS: If you have any reading/links on the subject handy I'd appreciate it. My searchings have found little.
  - agentgt 10y ago
    Unfortunately for insurance reasons you need some sort of medical reason other than GBAT [+]... luckily there seems to be no end of classifications of ailments and diseases (for better and worse). That is you really can't go to a doctor for not being as successful as you would like to be but you can go if you have some ailment holding you back which is usually the case... ADD, ADHD, Depression, OCD, Anxiety, or Addiction. Addiction these days is pretty rampant and it doesn't just have to be drugs (e.g. it could be Hackernews :) ). As for resources I think I saw Cengage have some info available. I can't find the original content but after googling I found this slideshow: http://www.slideshare.net/eaelliott/chapter-6-action-oriented-approaches http://www.slideshare.net/eaelliott/chapter-6-action-oriente... [+] "Getting Better All the Time"
gwbas1c 10y ago
All I can think about is "Little Miss Sunshine" where one of the characters wants to be a self-help star on the self-help circuit, but really needs the most help of them all.
sosuke 10y ago
The content was great but I wanted to mention the narrated recording at the top by curio.io was excellent. Really a pleasure to listen to while working and I'd never heard of the site before.

54 points by diodorus 10y ago

edgarvaldes 10y ago

My problem with self-help books is: The key ideas they contain can be expressed in a single page.

grzm 10y ago
That may be the case. Many people don't automatically see all of the implications that follow from reading a set of principles on a single page. Reading how they apply in different circumstances can be very helpful. Different people have different learning styles. And the repetition in a single book—or even after reading multiple books—can be very useful as well. What works for you may not work for someone else.
sAuronas 10y ago
The key idea, if there is only one to be had, still has to be "owned" by the reader and that requires knowing the why. I took more issue with the notion that having an MD behind your name makes what you say more valid (Deepak Chopra) versus just being some dude who teaches "neural linguistic programming" (Anthony Robbins). Having read (3 books each) both Dr Chopra and Mr Robbins I can tell you that the former writes books that are so unscientific as to make you wonder if he forgot everything he learned in med school or is just making so much money that he doesn't care how much he metaphysically babbles about nothingness [sic]. (Pretty sure I know the answer.) No matter what you think about Tony Robbins, you have to admit some of his ideas have traction. If you read enough of these books you'll find yourself making some improvements to your life. Malcolm Gladwell's "Blink", etc, were hugely impressive to me if only for his ability to tell the story of achievement and to make you believe genius-level ability is attainable, notwithstanding the allegations of plagiarism and the recycling of ideas. The real issue today is that there are so many motivational speakers/writers that it's become impossible not to waste a lot of time trying to discern the steak from the bullshit.
- theonething 10y ago
  > The real issue today is that there are so many motivational speakers/writers that it's become impossible not to waste a lot of time trying to discern the steak from the bullshit. This sounds "ripe for disruption." Any startups trying to solve this?
  - sAuronas 10y ago
    You could...

ranko 10y ago

Browsing the "self-help" shelf at my local charity shop, I came across Tarzan of the Apes and Breakfast at Tiffany's. I like to think that this is a clever deconstruction of the genre.

marcosdumay 10y ago
I brought my copy of 1984 from the non-fiction section of the bookstore.
- InitialLastName 10y ago
  I sometimes leave copies of the Bible in the fiction section.

sharkweek 10y ago

An anecdote, that I at least find kind of funny in my own life: I deal with diagnosed anxiety and OCD, and thus have read dozens of self-help books on working with these issues. A funny thing happened when I started reading the genre, in that I found myself somewhat addicted to it after the first 3-4 books. I brought this up to my therapist after about the 10th book in two months, and he joked but also seriously said, ok, time to take a break, pick a few unrelated and fun fiction books and go to town on those instead. Not offering medical advice here as everyone is different, but I've noticed a gradual decline in symptoms when I'm able to focus less on the issues themselves.

blatherard 10y ago
Thanks for sharing that. I am a moderator of an addiction-related subreddit, and recently a commenter made a short list of things they had struggled with which included (unsurprisingly) alcohol, tobacco and drugs. But they also included an unhealthy dependence on 'self-help' which was my first encounter with this idea. So you're not alone!
- sharkweek 10y ago
  I'm pretty sure people with addictive personalities can also get extremely addicted to their own thinking (stealing this idea from DFW's Infinite Jest, but I agree with it)
  - stinkytaco 10y ago
    Funny you should bring up DFW, who was apparently quite into self-help books himself: https://theawl.com/inside-david-foster-wallaces-private-self-help-library-f84d5f56fccd#.32kd1v8vm https://theawl.com/inside-david-foster-wallaces-private-self...
mistermann 10y ago
I'm not advocating this approach, simply asking: have you investigated nootropics? I am just starting to experiment myself and it seems some if it may be helping with anxiety, but will take more experimentation to say something more confidently.

spraak 10y ago

> On the other hand, the self-sufficiency and self-mastery promoted in much self-help are, as critics suggest, illusions. We do not make ourselves, and we cannot validate ourselves. Imagining that we can will bring not independence or confidence or trust, but, ironically, a lot of anxious searching for the approval of others—or a return to the self-help literature for the key to that elusive autonomy. What?! How then can we validate and make ourselves? Is the author a proponent of submission to a god? I don't understand how there is any other way to be validated, because one can never truly be validated from the outside anyways - there will always be external critics. Edit: formatting

pjmorris 10y ago
There's a step short of submission to a deity: peer-review. I suspect the author meant something more like 'We do not solely make ourselves, and we cannot solely validate ourselves.'
- spraak 10y ago
  That's still validation from the outside, from which one will never receive the clearest, most honest review, though I admit it can be helpful on the journey. The highest clarity comes from within, which is what all paths of truth teach (and in fact, what self-help books are often based on, inspired by, or try -- and sometimes succeed at -- teaching)
  - pjmorris 10y ago
    I have found my highest clarity to occasionally be obscured by clouds, hence my tendency to look outward once in awhile.
    - spraak 10y ago
      Yes, me too. Though I don't think it will be the ultimate return. I do believe that someone else who has reached the unreachable can point the way, but that at that point it will still come from within.

agentgt 10y ago

Many people do not realize that one can get professional help that does have academic rigor and will be somewhat paid for (depending on insurance coverage). If you can get over the still present social taboo of going to a therapist I highly recommend it both for relationships and personal growth (there is not just CBT but some newer forms that I have forgotten the names of). If you don't like a therapist you can easily switch and most are happy to refer and connect you with others (if they don't they are not a professional). If you are willing to be slightly experimental (and if you are buying a book I would imagine you are) there are also Universities and other Institutions that are always looking for participants in studies. Another extremely pro to a professional therapist is that they keep longitudinal records. Many people have a hard time tracking their progress and if they do it still might not be accurate compared to a third party observer.

eduren 10y ago
How might someone approach/shop therapists (CBT or otherwise) with the goal being personal growth? I've given thought to how useful a professional opinion may be (most of my barriers are self-inflicted), but I'm unsure about how much I'd get out of it and how to present my needs to the therapist at first. Any advice? PS: If you have any reading/links on the subject handy I'd appreciate it. My searchings have found little.
- agentgt 10y ago
  Unfortunately for insurance reasons you need some sort of medical reason other than GBAT [+]... luckily there seems to be no end of classifications of ailments and diseases (for better and worse). That is you really can't go to a doctor for not being as successful as you would like to be but you can go if you have some ailment holding you back which is usually the case... ADD, ADHD, Depression, OCD, Anxiety, or Addiction. Addiction these days is pretty rampant and it doesn't just have to be drugs (e.g. it could be Hackernews :) ). As for resources I think I saw Cengage have some info available. I can't find the original content but after googling I found this slideshow: http://www.slideshare.net/eaelliott/chapter-6-action-oriented-approaches http://www.slideshare.net/eaelliott/chapter-6-action-oriente... [+] "Getting Better All the Time"

gwbas1c 10y ago

All I can think about is "Little Miss Sunshine" where one of the characters wants to be a self-help star on the self-help circuit, but really needs the most help of them all.

sosuke 10y ago

The content was great but I wanted to mention the narrated recording at the top by curio.io was excellent. Really a pleasure to listen to while working and I'd never heard of the site before.