8 ms·

Political Crisis Engulfs Samsung, a Firm Tied to South Korea’s Success

137 points by zonotope 10y ago

JoeAltmaier 10y ago
Reading this, it would seem the President of Samsung is more important to Korea than their National President. One is mentioned in every paragraph; the other in only one, offhand.
- ot 10y ago
  Samsung alone is responsible for about 20% of Korean GDP. This article is from 2012, but I don't expect it to have changed much: http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/07/whoa-samsung-is-responsible-for-20-of-south-koreas-economy/260552/ http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/07/whoa-sam...
- franciscop 10y ago
  There were HUGE protests [1][2] last year with the President of South Korea, so people do not really like/trust their president right now. Also, I've always been told by Koreans how Samsung is a great Korean company in a way that it shows that it's a big national pride. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_South_Korean_political_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_South_Korean_political_sc... [2] https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=korea+protest&hl=en&tbm=isch https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=korea+protest&hl=en&tb...
  - mratzloff 10y ago
    Yes, literally every person I saw in Seoul owned a Samsung phone.
    - discordance 10y ago
      I see a lot of iPhones. I would say about 50-50
  - devty 10y ago
    There is a hint of irony to this. Many Koreans (especially the younger crowd) views Samsung-like chaebols with disdain not unlike many have towards Wall Street, and yet getting an offer from one of these companies is a dream come true.
    - djsumdog 10y ago
      Has there ever been an Occupy type movement in Sol?
    - noobermin 10y ago
      It is perhaps ironic, but not surprising. Familiar human nature shouldn't surprise anyone. I'm a damn lib, but a year or so ago, a fellow graduate student left to become a VP at JP Morgan (he's a well connected fellow). I was damn well tempted to follow him but I eventually decided against it.
- cavemanmike 10y ago
  In fairness, the article is about the president of Samsung, I don't find it hugely surprising that it would talk about him a lot...
- gwern 10y ago
  Aside from its size, keep in mind that Park is a lame duck (her term is up soon & SK requires only 1 term) and the damage there has been done - she's been dead meat for months, but this comes at a bad time for Samsung and further, this guy was expected to run Samsung for decades (he's only 48).
- peterjlee 10y ago
  Many Koreans do believe that the President of Samsung is more powerful than the president. Though the current president of Samsung is relatively new since his father had an unexpected stroke in 2014. The succession of power wasn't complete at the time so they had to pull some legal/financial gymnastics with some "help" of the president to keep control.
chajath 10y ago
It's about time Korea moves away from this oligarchical bs and embrace a true liberal democracy and market economy
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- goodplay 10y ago
  The problem isn't that it's oligarchical, the problem is corruption. You don't need to look far to see that democracy and free markets aren't exactly free of corruption either. Tying the two is nothing but a red herring.
  - chajath 10y ago
    By oligarchy I mean it's gotten to the point where they have such an influence as kicking an MP out [1] for exposing their connections with the prosecutors office. Sure modern democracy and free market aren't free of problems, but Korea can use some Rule of Law. [1] http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/15/3991338/samsung-x-file-tapes-lawmaker-roh-hoe-chan-loses-government-seat http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/15/3991338/samsung-x-file-tap...
    - goodplay 10y ago
      That's corruption for you. No matter what form of power structure is employed, if you don't have good laws that are uniformly enforced, you'll get corruption, be the structure oligarchical or democratic.
      - chajath 10y ago
        Of course by "oligarchy" I only mean it figuratively. Formally Korea is democracy _de jure_. But the situation is so bad that I'm calling out as an oligarchy _de facto_.
        goodplay 10y ago
twblalock 10y ago
Most large Korean companies are family-owned or family-controlled, and most are corrupt. An unusually high percentage of the heads of these companies have criminal records for financial crimes, compared to other developed economies. For decades, presidents have frequently pardoned them -- and many other CEOs would be convicted of financial crimes if the government bothered to charge them. Presidents of South Korea have often justified their pardons of criminal CEOs by stressing the consequences for the economy. Fortunately, those excuses are less widely accepted than they used to be. Besides, it's not healthy for an economy to be heavily dependent on a small number of family-controlled firms, whether they are corrupt or not. It's true that enforcing the law against those companies may cause a short-term economic downturn, but in the long term, the economy will have a more sustainable foundation. Incidentally, the Korean term for these large conglomerates, chaebol, is cognate with the Japanese term zaibatsu, which dominated the pre-WWII Japanese economy and shared many characteristics, including family control and political and financial corruption. Japan was better off when they were broken up. Despite appearances, the current Japanese conglomerates are better than the zaibatsu in important ways: they are rarely family-controlled, and they are less corrupt, more accountable to shareholders, and have much better corporate governance as a result. Some reform of the economy, and less tolerance for corruption among the voters, are likely to be the best things that comes out of the impeachment of the current president.
- mavelikara 10y ago
  > Most large Korean companies are family-owned or family-controlled, and most are corrupt. An unusually high percentage of the heads of these companies have criminal records for financial crimes, compared to other developed economies. > Presidents of South Korea have often justified their pardons of criminal CEOs by stressing the consequences for the economy. Fortunately, those excuses are less widely accepted than they used to be. FWIW, similar justifications were brought out when HSBC was caught laundering drug-money, when LIBOR was found to be manipulated etc.
- coliveira 10y ago
  American companies are also extremely corrupt. The difference is that they operate through loopholes in the law, and pay armies of lawyers to find such loopholes. They also pay a fortune to lobbyists to maintain and expand these friendly laws.
archildress 10y ago
Hard to imagine Tim Cook or Sundar Pichai being arrested. It's an even bigger deal in SK than either of those guys, where Samsung's role in the respective GDP is much higher.
- shortsightedsid 10y ago
  No, but there are other parallels - Madoff, Skillings, Ebbers.
- h4nkoslo 10y ago
  Partly because they are involved in politics on a mostly cosmetic basis. It is much easier to imagine a specifically politically connected figure (imagine a John Podesta or Rick Perry level personality) being arrested for some sort of corruption; in SK evidently those figures are also businessmen of various sorts.
bane 10y ago
When South Korea was coming out the war, it was around the poorest country on Earth. The generation who lived through the war, or who grew up right after saw their country going from being literal rubble to being a global powerhouse -- and lots of the credit is given to the dictatorship of Park Chung Hee and the particulars of the economic development program he initiated. The downside to that program, and much of it still exists today, is that is was designed to operate in a way that tolerated lots of corruption in both government and industry. The <40 generations, who remember, at the earliest, leaving behind the military dictatorship and emergence as a fledgling democracy are far less tolerant of the excesses that the old system tolerated and want to raise expectations, bring about accountability, "deconfucionize" the national leadership (both political and industrial/commercial), and I think along with that further diversify the economy. South Koreans are tremendously entrepreneurial, there are many many small businesses that are formed every year, and they operate in some ways in the shadows of the offerings from the major conglomerates. The government, for what it's worth, has been toying around with growing and promoting VC-like startups to help formalize the grow-and-sell approach. But there's still a tremendous disconnect and you find very few medium-sized, or even large businesses, as the conglomerates tend to either out-compete or buy up all of those companies. From the normal person's perspective you find yourself trapped in a cycle of "making it big" and getting into a salary-man's life with a big firm (and all the downsides of that lifestyle), or doing similar jobs with less security and less pay for tiny companies. Many people don't want either choice, they want a third-way, even if they're having difficulty articulating this desire, and I think the country may be on the verge of this transformation into a more fully diversified economy. Superficially it's hard for outsiders to see or understand this, since you can get all of the first-world fixings you would expect...except that they all seem to come from the same 4 or 5 companies and it keeps the economy perpetually trapped. However, Korea's global position is precarious, cheaper manufacturing and goods are an hour flight away to the West (China), and higher-quality precision engineering is an hour flight away to the East (Japan). Korea has neither the money, or population to really directly compete with either and thus tries to use both the bulk of the conglomerates to act as economic gate crashers into global trade and then massive cultural subsidies and funding to push in awareness of Korean cultural properties and the network that comes with that (oh, so you like K-POP? you'll love Kimchi!). Politicians are rightly terrified of losing the relative power the conglomerates give the nation as powerful chess pieces. The recent presidential crisis and the continuing revelations of how corrupt, and tied together the government and the conglomerates are has been a major revelation to millions of young Koreans. This crisis could become a watershed moment that could radically transform the entire political and economic landscape in the country. It's not clear at all what that could look like or if it would be beneficial for the country.
Radim 10y ago
The stranglehold that large "chaebols" (large family conglomerates) hold on the Korean economy and politics here is frightening. And it's still such an "honour" to work for them, a sign of social prestige, which makes change unlikely any time soon. Kind of like publishing in top journals is so prestigious and career-advancing for scientists. It makes creeps like Elsevier "above the market laws", virtually undisruptible (as well as fabulously rich). It's a deeply cultural thing, with glacial inertia, not a question of technology/funding! On a similar note, after the AlphaGo commotion, Korean government allocated some $860M to "AI innovation". I may be too cynical, but it wouldn't surprise me if the money ended up in "friendly hands", the likes of Samsung.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
yongjik 10y ago
It doesn't help Lee Jaeyong that, unlike his ruthless father (who was somehow brutally efficient at making Samsung the most powerful company in Korea), Lee Jaeyong has the moniker of "Hand of Minus", after several of his pet projects that went nowhere. Already some people are (somewhat jokingly) predicting that maybe his arrest would be a plus to Samsung... That said, it was quite a bold move by prosecutors. Without the current scandal of president Park and puppetmaster Choi, I don't think they would have dared arrest Samsung's leader. (Well, the court may still say no to the arrest; we should wait and see.)
- bane 10y ago
  Despite the history of corruption in Korean politics up to the presidential level, my gut feeling is that the Park/Choi scandal is unprecedented in Korean history, both in terms of the scale of the revelations, and the low level of tolerance that regular Koreans are showing towards it. I think in 20 years, people will talk about pre and post Park Geun-hye Korea because the difference will be that important.
otakucode 10y ago
I have been convinced that NAND chips have been price-fixed for years now, similar to how the exact same companies (Samsung a big one) involved in their production price-fixed RAM chips and then LCD panels. A few years ago, there was an investigation launched into exactly this. South Korea, however, closed that investigation. Has anyone heard whether that investigation was closed as one of the 'political favors' the bribes facilitated? Given the production processes involved, the materials involved, and the sheer titanic scale of the number of products which include NAND chips, it is absurd that we do not yet have SSDs which are significantly larger, and significantly cheaper, than any mechanical hard drives.
patrickg_zill 10y ago
The NYT once again disappoints. No mention of the 8 Goddess scandal? It's almost as if the western media is deliberately avoiding the scandal, lest anyone draw parallels to western corruption.

137 points by zonotope 10y ago

Reading this, it would seem the President of Samsung is more important to Korea than their National President. One is mentioned in every paragraph; the other in only one, offhand.

ot 10y ago
Samsung alone is responsible for about 20% of Korean GDP. This article is from 2012, but I don't expect it to have changed much: http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/07/whoa-samsung-is-responsible-for-20-of-south-koreas-economy/260552/ http://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2012/07/whoa-sam...
franciscop 10y ago
There were HUGE protests [1][2] last year with the President of South Korea, so people do not really like/trust their president right now. Also, I've always been told by Koreans how Samsung is a great Korean company in a way that it shows that it's a big national pride. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_South_Korean_political_scandal https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2016_South_Korean_political_sc... [2] https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=korea+protest&hl=en&tbm=isch https://encrypted.google.com/search?q=korea+protest&hl=en&tb...
- mratzloff 10y ago
  Yes, literally every person I saw in Seoul owned a Samsung phone.
  - discordance 10y ago
    I see a lot of iPhones. I would say about 50-50
- devty 10y ago
  There is a hint of irony to this. Many Koreans (especially the younger crowd) views Samsung-like chaebols with disdain not unlike many have towards Wall Street, and yet getting an offer from one of these companies is a dream come true.
  - djsumdog 10y ago
    Has there ever been an Occupy type movement in Sol?
  - noobermin 10y ago
    It is perhaps ironic, but not surprising. Familiar human nature shouldn't surprise anyone. I'm a damn lib, but a year or so ago, a fellow graduate student left to become a VP at JP Morgan (he's a well connected fellow). I was damn well tempted to follow him but I eventually decided against it.
cavemanmike 10y ago
In fairness, the article is about the president of Samsung, I don't find it hugely surprising that it would talk about him a lot...
gwern 10y ago
Aside from its size, keep in mind that Park is a lame duck (her term is up soon & SK requires only 1 term) and the damage there has been done - she's been dead meat for months, but this comes at a bad time for Samsung and further, this guy was expected to run Samsung for decades (he's only 48).
peterjlee 10y ago
Many Koreans do believe that the President of Samsung is more powerful than the president. Though the current president of Samsung is relatively new since his father had an unexpected stroke in 2014. The succession of power wasn't complete at the time so they had to pull some legal/financial gymnastics with some "help" of the president to keep control.

chajath 10y ago

It's about time Korea moves away from this oligarchical bs and embrace a true liberal democracy and market economy

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
goodplay 10y ago
The problem isn't that it's oligarchical, the problem is corruption. You don't need to look far to see that democracy and free markets aren't exactly free of corruption either. Tying the two is nothing but a red herring.
- chajath 10y ago
  By oligarchy I mean it's gotten to the point where they have such an influence as kicking an MP out [1] for exposing their connections with the prosecutors office. Sure modern democracy and free market aren't free of problems, but Korea can use some Rule of Law. [1] http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/15/3991338/samsung-x-file-tapes-lawmaker-roh-hoe-chan-loses-government-seat http://www.theverge.com/2013/2/15/3991338/samsung-x-file-tap...
  - goodplay 10y ago
    That's corruption for you. No matter what form of power structure is employed, if you don't have good laws that are uniformly enforced, you'll get corruption, be the structure oligarchical or democratic.
    - chajath 10y ago
      Of course by "oligarchy" I only mean it figuratively. Formally Korea is democracy _de jure_. But the situation is so bad that I'm calling out as an oligarchy _de facto_.
      - goodplay 10y ago

twblalock 10y ago

Most large Korean companies are family-owned or family-controlled, and most are corrupt. An unusually high percentage of the heads of these companies have criminal records for financial crimes, compared to other developed economies. For decades, presidents have frequently pardoned them -- and many other CEOs would be convicted of financial crimes if the government bothered to charge them. Presidents of South Korea have often justified their pardons of criminal CEOs by stressing the consequences for the economy. Fortunately, those excuses are less widely accepted than they used to be. Besides, it's not healthy for an economy to be heavily dependent on a small number of family-controlled firms, whether they are corrupt or not. It's true that enforcing the law against those companies may cause a short-term economic downturn, but in the long term, the economy will have a more sustainable foundation. Incidentally, the Korean term for these large conglomerates, chaebol, is cognate with the Japanese term zaibatsu, which dominated the pre-WWII Japanese economy and shared many characteristics, including family control and political and financial corruption. Japan was better off when they were broken up. Despite appearances, the current Japanese conglomerates are better than the zaibatsu in important ways: they are rarely family-controlled, and they are less corrupt, more accountable to shareholders, and have much better corporate governance as a result. Some reform of the economy, and less tolerance for corruption among the voters, are likely to be the best things that comes out of the impeachment of the current president.

mavelikara 10y ago
> Most large Korean companies are family-owned or family-controlled, and most are corrupt. An unusually high percentage of the heads of these companies have criminal records for financial crimes, compared to other developed economies. > Presidents of South Korea have often justified their pardons of criminal CEOs by stressing the consequences for the economy. Fortunately, those excuses are less widely accepted than they used to be. FWIW, similar justifications were brought out when HSBC was caught laundering drug-money, when LIBOR was found to be manipulated etc.
coliveira 10y ago
American companies are also extremely corrupt. The difference is that they operate through loopholes in the law, and pay armies of lawyers to find such loopholes. They also pay a fortune to lobbyists to maintain and expand these friendly laws.

archildress 10y ago

Hard to imagine Tim Cook or Sundar Pichai being arrested. It's an even bigger deal in SK than either of those guys, where Samsung's role in the respective GDP is much higher.

shortsightedsid 10y ago
No, but there are other parallels - Madoff, Skillings, Ebbers.
h4nkoslo 10y ago
Partly because they are involved in politics on a mostly cosmetic basis. It is much easier to imagine a specifically politically connected figure (imagine a John Podesta or Rick Perry level personality) being arrested for some sort of corruption; in SK evidently those figures are also businessmen of various sorts.

bane 10y ago

When South Korea was coming out the war, it was around the poorest country on Earth. The generation who lived through the war, or who grew up right after saw their country going from being literal rubble to being a global powerhouse -- and lots of the credit is given to the dictatorship of Park Chung Hee and the particulars of the economic development program he initiated. The downside to that program, and much of it still exists today, is that is was designed to operate in a way that tolerated lots of corruption in both government and industry. The <40 generations, who remember, at the earliest, leaving behind the military dictatorship and emergence as a fledgling democracy are far less tolerant of the excesses that the old system tolerated and want to raise expectations, bring about accountability, "deconfucionize" the national leadership (both political and industrial/commercial), and I think along with that further diversify the economy. South Koreans are tremendously entrepreneurial, there are many many small businesses that are formed every year, and they operate in some ways in the shadows of the offerings from the major conglomerates. The government, for what it's worth, has been toying around with growing and promoting VC-like startups to help formalize the grow-and-sell approach. But there's still a tremendous disconnect and you find very few medium-sized, or even large businesses, as the conglomerates tend to either out-compete or buy up all of those companies. From the normal person's perspective you find yourself trapped in a cycle of "making it big" and getting into a salary-man's life with a big firm (and all the downsides of that lifestyle), or doing similar jobs with less security and less pay for tiny companies. Many people don't want either choice, they want a third-way, even if they're having difficulty articulating this desire, and I think the country may be on the verge of this transformation into a more fully diversified economy. Superficially it's hard for outsiders to see or understand this, since you can get all of the first-world fixings you would expect...except that they all seem to come from the same 4 or 5 companies and it keeps the economy perpetually trapped. However, Korea's global position is precarious, cheaper manufacturing and goods are an hour flight away to the West (China), and higher-quality precision engineering is an hour flight away to the East (Japan). Korea has neither the money, or population to really directly compete with either and thus tries to use both the bulk of the conglomerates to act as economic gate crashers into global trade and then massive cultural subsidies and funding to push in awareness of Korean cultural properties and the network that comes with that (oh, so you like K-POP? you'll love Kimchi!). Politicians are rightly terrified of losing the relative power the conglomerates give the nation as powerful chess pieces. The recent presidential crisis and the continuing revelations of how corrupt, and tied together the government and the conglomerates are has been a major revelation to millions of young Koreans. This crisis could become a watershed moment that could radically transform the entire political and economic landscape in the country. It's not clear at all what that could look like or if it would be beneficial for the country.

Radim 10y ago

The stranglehold that large "chaebols" (large family conglomerates) hold on the Korean economy and politics here is frightening. And it's still such an "honour" to work for them, a sign of social prestige, which makes change unlikely any time soon. Kind of like publishing in top journals is so prestigious and career-advancing for scientists. It makes creeps like Elsevier "above the market laws", virtually undisruptible (as well as fabulously rich). It's a deeply cultural thing, with glacial inertia, not a question of technology/funding! On a similar note, after the AlphaGo commotion, Korean government allocated some $860M to "AI innovation". I may be too cynical, but it wouldn't surprise me if the money ended up in "friendly hands", the likes of Samsung.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

yongjik 10y ago

It doesn't help Lee Jaeyong that, unlike his ruthless father (who was somehow brutally efficient at making Samsung the most powerful company in Korea), Lee Jaeyong has the moniker of "Hand of Minus", after several of his pet projects that went nowhere. Already some people are (somewhat jokingly) predicting that maybe his arrest would be a plus to Samsung... That said, it was quite a bold move by prosecutors. Without the current scandal of president Park and puppetmaster Choi, I don't think they would have dared arrest Samsung's leader. (Well, the court may still say no to the arrest; we should wait and see.)

bane 10y ago
Despite the history of corruption in Korean politics up to the presidential level, my gut feeling is that the Park/Choi scandal is unprecedented in Korean history, both in terms of the scale of the revelations, and the low level of tolerance that regular Koreans are showing towards it. I think in 20 years, people will talk about pre and post Park Geun-hye Korea because the difference will be that important.

otakucode 10y ago

I have been convinced that NAND chips have been price-fixed for years now, similar to how the exact same companies (Samsung a big one) involved in their production price-fixed RAM chips and then LCD panels. A few years ago, there was an investigation launched into exactly this. South Korea, however, closed that investigation. Has anyone heard whether that investigation was closed as one of the 'political favors' the bribes facilitated? Given the production processes involved, the materials involved, and the sheer titanic scale of the number of products which include NAND chips, it is absurd that we do not yet have SSDs which are significantly larger, and significantly cheaper, than any mechanical hard drives.

patrickg_zill 10y ago

The NYT once again disappoints. No mention of the 8 Goddess scandal? It's almost as if the western media is deliberately avoiding the scandal, lest anyone draw parallels to western corruption.