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Ask HN: Do you wear ear protection or noise cancelling headphones while working?

• tedmiston 10y ago
  So I recently got the Bose QC30 and while they will help with average traffic noise, the active noise canceling doesn't work super well for higher pitched or more abrupt sounds like the cuckoo clock. I've been playing brown noise or something similar through them on top of the active noise cancellation. I use my own command-line program [1] or Noisli in Chrome for this. Yes, it feels kind of wasteful to buy premium headphones for the express purpose of not listening to music, but this is the best solution I've come up for working in an open office. I'd be interested to hear how others handle this problem, as I've always been very sensitive to noise and can program way more effectively when background noise is minimal and consistent, like a fan. [1]: https://github.com/tedmiston/zero-noise https://github.com/tedmiston/zero-noise
  • jseliger 10y ago
    Earplugs are one possibility: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0044DEESS https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0044DEESS though I don't know how well they'd work or how comfortable they be for hours at a time. I wear them in noisy bars, clubs, or theaters for shorter periods. Beyond that, it's hard to imagine a better reasonable solution than noise-cancelling headphones. I first got a pair in college, when I was editing and writing grant proposals while living with roommates who often (and reasonably) wanted to watch movies, hang out with friends, etc.
    • semi-extrinsic 10y ago
      Have you (or someone else on here who owns active noise canceling headphones) ever A/B tested them against a cheap closed-back set of headphones, like the $25 Sennheiser HD202? I ask because I've used some HD202s for five years now in the office, and when listening to low/normal levels of music, I literally cannot hear a person standing next to me saying my name loudly; people have to tap my shoulder all the time. Even with no music at all, they remove a lot of sound/noise and I have to take them off to talk to people. I'm now looking to upgrade to the ~$150 AKG K271s, these are closed back recording studio headphones specifically designed to not bleed whatever you are listening to into the microphone you are singing into. I'm told they give a good comfort boost over the HD202s, which are a bit uncomfortable after 3-4 hours, as well as a sound quality boost. The same goes for professional DJ headphones; imagine the need for sound isolation for someone doing live mixing of music at a nightclub. Neither DJs nor studio applications make use of active noise cancelling, which tells me you can get very far without it.
      • jmiserez 10y ago
        The difference is plain as day. I currently use the closed back Beyerdynamic DT770 with an amp for listening to music, but exclusively the Bose QC25 for work and commuting. The main difference between my Beyerdynamic DT770 and the Bose QC25 are: 1. Without any music playing but with active NC on, the QC25 feel like open-back headphones. The feel is airy and like a weight is lifted from your ears in the QC25 vs. muffled/dull/pressured in the DT770. You can sort of hear your the blood in your ears pumping in the closed-back DT770, a bit like what you would hear in a seashell. If you turn off the NC, the QC25 is about the same as the DT770 without sound. If you go back to your HD202s after having used NC for an hour or so, you'll immediately notice the difference. 2. Sound quality is much worse in the QC25, it's not even close. No rich lows, no clear highs, it's just a mess. Still, it's usable. 3. However, the killer feature is that with the QC25 you can listen at extremely low volume (think 1 bar on the iPhone) and still hear the music clearly. On the DT770 you have to play the music louder, and I find that very quiet music is better for focusing.
        • 10y ago
  • falcolas 10y ago
    Same problem for me; my solution is In Ear Monitors (IEMs). Around 25db of noise reduction combined with the ability to play music (or white/brown/pink noise).
• steve1011 10y ago
  Earplugs are way better for noise isolation (i.e. blocking out noise) There are a number of different types out there, including ones that can be custom-molded to your ear canals for maximum comfort and sound reduction. For the price of a new pair of Bose headphones, you could buy hundreds of pairs of ear plugs or even a handful of custom molded musicians earplugs.
  • licebmi__at__ 10y ago
    Headphones also work as psychological deterrent. I don't really care much about sound, but I do care about the talkative guy who comes with a absurd issue just to make small talk.
    • roryisok 10y ago
      I definitely find this. I often put my headphones on without music just so people won't bother me
  • tedmiston 10y ago
    I'd be curious to hear if anyone has done custom molded plugs before and how much better they really are. Especially if they make a difference in noise isolation and/or cancellation, or if it's more about comfort. In any case custom tips aren't that expensive relative to the benefits, so it's something I'm considering.
    • scarecrowbob 10y ago
      I occasionally play music in bands with in-ear monitors. I use a $100 pari of shure earbuds (se215), and they work quite well. I don't play in these kinds of situations often enough to warrant paying 200-800 for a pair of custom molds and drivers, but I know people who do. I have been told that the main benefit of custom molds is better (higher-fidelity) bass response and are typically more comfortable, and typically more expensive IEMs will also have more drivers for different bands in the audio spectrum. As far as noise isolation, the Shure's are plenty good enough for listening to low-volume music while, say mowing the lawn. Or, if the drummer is being annoying in a rehearsal I have unplugged them to great relief. Isolation doesn't, I think, get much better-- there is a lot of conduction through other pathways than the ear canal. After I played around with a couple different tips (these are very inexpensive) I found that my ear canals differ slightly in size ;)
• penetrarthur 10y ago
  I bought noise isolating headphones today to deal with office noise. I heard very good stuff about Audio Technica ATH-M50X and they are really good indeed. I can definitely recommend those.
  • davidandgoliath 10y ago
    As someone who is extremely noise sensitive, I disagree: ATH-M50X's are 'okay' for audio, and pitiful for noise mitigation. They offer almost zero reduction in outside audio, but are okay from an audio standpoint. (Yes, gun range ear mufflers will work, but you might look awkward. I have a sets of those when I really need to concentrate) Here's my recommendation: Shure SE215-K. In ear studio monitor. amazing noise blocking ability, and, you can play some music to boot. I have literally wore mine down from years of office/motorcycle/road trip use. They have replaceable cables too. Caveat: These can be uncomfortable for prolonged use (I'm talking ~20 hour road trips) as they're in-ear, but seriously get a set. Now that they're $99 on amazon, vs. the $299 I paid for them years prior -- it's a no brainer. In fact, I'm going to get another set this very moment.
  • dublinben 10y ago
    The Sennheiser HD-280 are much better headphones for this purpose. They actually block significant amounts of sound, unlike the M50.
• atmosx 10y ago
  Just beware that using any kind of headphones on a daily basis will severely damage your hearing no matter what.
  • BorisMelnik 10y ago
    damn, thats crazy when you put it like that. I really hate the music that is played in our office, rather bad. I've been considering wearing headphones but don't want to damange my ears!
    • atmosx 10y ago
      tbh I took music for granted. Music with headphones even at low levels will have detrimental effect. Headphones without music (which apparently is the topic of discussion) should be fine.
      • detaro 10y ago
        Source on the music at low levels claim? That's new to me as well, and all references I can easily find only talk about excessive loudness (but they could easily drown out less well-known results if there are any).
  • roryisok 10y ago
    Evidence please?
    • atmosx 10y ago
      That's like asking evidence that sugar consumption leads to obesity but pick the one you like the most: https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=headphones+hearing+loss&btnG=&as_sdt=1%2C5&as_sdtp=&oq=headphones+hearing https://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=en&q=headphones+hearin...
      • detaro 10y ago
        No article on the first two pages supporting your claim. There mentions of the fact that headphones are capable of producing dangerous volumes (which is an important point), but nothing to indicate that headphone use in itself is damaging.
• abhikhar 10y ago
  i just bought bose Q35. though audio quality is avergae but noise cancellation is awesome. it is pretty steep price(349$) but it is worth increase in productivity for me as there is no other solution available in market better than this( i tried sony and momentum before but it doesnt fit my needs well)
  • tedmiston 10y ago
    Just curious, how high do you keep the active noise canceling set to when working? I've found < 40% actually makes it harder to focus and the highest range 75–100% is where I usually keep them when I need to concentrate.
  • blisterpeanuts 10y ago
    I second the QC-35. It's the most advanced headphone I've ever used -- maintains a list of paired devices and connects with whichever one is nearby and emitting audio. It talks to you and tells you which devices are currently connected (can turn that off using a phone app). The noise cancellation is excellent, the audio quality is acceptable to me (perhaps audiophiles are more finicky) and it also works nicely as a wireless bluetooth headset for phone calls. It's replaced my audio 'phones and my phone headset, and I'm getting a bluetooth transmitter for my digital piano so I can practice the piano wirelessly :) Most of the time I don't play any audio through my Bose 'phones but use them simply as a silencer during the working day; I can't really concentrate with music playing. It's a premium priced product, but well supported and seems to be good quality construction and top engineering. The design is over-the-ear and the ear cushions are very soft and luxurious. They're rechargeable and last at least all day on a charge. This turned into a mini-review but that merely reflects my enthusiasm at having found a good silencing headset at last :)
• oblib 10y ago
  I'm gonna second what steve1011 says. If it's just dampening down noise you're after good earplugs are probably better than the best noise canceling headphones. I wore industrial grade earmuffs and earplugs most all day long when I did metal work. That's not the same as wearing them in an office environment all day but I didn't find earmuffs terribly uncomfortable and I just looked at few newer models that look pretty close in design and weight as the Bose headset for about $30. Both plugs and muffs have pros and cons. Plugs are less conspicuous, and muffs are easier to get on and off. My own experience is that they work about the same (if both are high quality) and I generally wore both when doing metal work because the loud hammering and grinding I did was especially damaging to our hearing and there was a very noticeable difference than when using only one of those. The earplugs I used were made out of "memory foam" (like the bed mattresses use). There are other types I tried but they were not near as good.
  • tedmiston 10y ago
    The memory foam earplugs sound interesting. Do you have a link or the brand you used for reference?
    • davidbanham 10y ago
      This is the kind of thing the parent means. They're very commonly available. http://m.homedepot.com/p/3M-Orange-Disposable-Ear-Plugs-80-Pack-92800-80-6DC/202691611 http://m.homedepot.com/p/3M-Orange-Disposable-Ear-Plugs-80-P...
    • jlebar 10y ago
      I use https://www.amazon.com/Howard-Leight-Visibility-Disposable-LL-1/dp/B0007XJOLG https://www.amazon.com/Howard-Leight-Visibility-Disposable-L.... They are pretty comfortable after you get used to them.
  • ortusdux 10y ago
    I recommend JVC's Marshmallow headphones. They are earplug earbuds. They are cheap, robust, and have a decent sound. I go through about two pairs a year but I am very hard on them.
• roryisok 10y ago
  I made my own "noise cancelling" headphones by buying a set of ex army ear protectors and wiring in the drivers from an old pair of Sony headphones. They are very effective. Once in work I watched everybody in the office stand up and put on their coats, then start to wave at me. I was very confused until I took off the headphones and realised the fire alarm was going off
  • andreasklinger 10y ago
    amazing ;) can you post a photo of them?
    • roryisok 10y ago
      Sure, here are three images I just snapped. edit: forgot the link http://imgur.com/a/2ahUx http://imgur.com/a/2ahUx
  • jlebar 10y ago
    Man, I would love to try these out. Are they available for purchase?
    • tetraodonpuffer 10y ago
      there are plenty of similar things available, when playing drums I use these, which is a similar concept http://remoteaudio.com/products/hearing/high-noise-headset/ http://remoteaudio.com/products/hearing/high-noise-headset/ they seem to be available at several online stores and are fairly comfortable to wear, although at work I prefer simple foam earplugs.
      • Anasufovic 10y ago
        Yeah, for an office you are generally fine by looking for "closed" headphones meaning they block out external sound and contain the headphone sound better. It's similar to noise isolation using sealed earbuds except I find it much more comfortable.
    • 10y ago
• overcast 10y ago
  My office has white noise generators to drown out the open office layout conversations. So I wear noise cancelling headphones, to cancel the white noise generators. It's insane, but keeps my sanity. Otherwise, it's like you're on an airplane all day.
  • unixhero 10y ago
    What????
    • tedmiston 10y ago
      Most commercial office spaces play white noise like this, called sound masking [1]. From HBR [2]: > 3. Mask the sound by increasing background noise. It seems counter-intuitive, but adding more sound to an environment can actually make it seem quieter. Research suggests that noise itself isn’t distracting, but unwanted speech noise is. However, words that are incomprehensible are less likely to be distracting. By adding a continuous, low-level ambient sound to an environment (such as white noise, which sounds similar to the sound of airflow), sound masking can help make conversations for listeners that aren’t intended to hear them unintelligible, and therefore much easier to ignore. It also raises the interesting point as to why I find it so easy to work at coffee shops in foreign countries. [1]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_masking https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sound_masking [2]: https://hbr.org/2015/03/stop-noise-from-ruining-your-open-office https://hbr.org/2015/03/stop-noise-from-ruining-your-open-of...
  • beart 10y ago
    I'm in the exact same boat as you in my office. Who the hell designs an office space that requires static noise blasted 24 hours a day to drown conversations out?
    • tedmiston 10y ago
      It's interesting how different people can fall on the noise spectrum. For contrast, I go out of my way to add more white noise to my environment when in an open office. The quite hum of my air conditioner's fan in my home office is something that helps me concentrate when working.
• alexmr 10y ago
  Check out extreme isolation headphones: http://www.extremeheadphones.com/ http://www.extremeheadphones.com/ My co-worker has them and likes them. They're basically earmuffs + audio
• mike_h 10y ago
  Noise-canceling headphones aren't as effective as passive noise blockers. If you don't want to wear earplugs all day, use the earmuffs meant for heavy machinery or shooting: https://www.amazon.com/Ear-Defense-3000-Muffs-Earplugs/dp/B01C72JGXK https://www.amazon.com/Ear-Defense-3000-Muffs-Earplugs/dp/B0... They even sell some as pretty decent headphones: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004U4A5RU https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B004U4A5RU Re: comfort, you will have to try a few pairs to see which ones are best for you; most seem to be designed more for safety and maintaining a seal than for wearing all day without fatigue.
• jlebar 10y ago
  > Has anyone tried earmuffs worn at gun ranges instead and if so are they uncomfortable if worn for prolonged periods ? I use such a pair at work: https://www.amazon.com/3M-Peltor-Over-Earmuffs-X5A/dp/B01MG1KAFK https://www.amazon.com/3M-Peltor-Over-Earmuffs-X5A/dp/B01MG1... They are pretty uncomfortable at first, but I've gotten used to them. They are like focus pills for me -- I put them on, then take them off and suddenly realize two hours have passed. I am interested in these "ex arm ear protectors" that roryisok mentions.
• ccrush 10y ago
  What you're looking for is the radio headsets that airport ground support crews use. More than 20dB attenuation, headphones built in, designed to be worn an entire shift. If someone can deal with multiple Rolls Royce turbofans nearby while wearing these, you can too. Be careful to buy one with two drivers (some ground crews use the single headphone driver model to have an ear free to hear other sounds), and get a proper adapter to plug them into your audio source. Active noise cancelation only works in the 900Hz and lower range on consumer bose headphones. You can try the Bose pilot headsets if you want, but they are much pricier. You can get a good used ground crew set for about $100.
• Zelmor 10y ago
  Ask for another desk, one with a farther flight from the cuckoo's nest.
• falcolas 10y ago
  I haven't seen these mentioned yet - In Ear Monitors (IEMs) They are a combination of earplug and speaker, giving you the benefits of both. Good IEMs [0] will attenuate the surrounding sound by up to 25db (for comparison good earmuffs/earplugs are in the 30-35db range, closed back/over ear headphones with a good seal are in the 5-10db range), and provide high quality music when you want it. The down side is that, like earplugs, they can be a bit uncomfortable to use until you're used to them. I tend to listen to either music or just pink/brown noise [1] through them, and I can't hear a thing going on in the office - even when they're doing construction. If you really want to go all out, you can combine earmuffs with music - there are ranges from some inexpensive 3m ones (some of which include a radio, others a 3.5mm jack), up to those used by pilots and ground crew. They're also in the 25db reduction range; I have an old pair of David Clarks which are insane (though heavy, they're made to wear all day). [0] Shure and Westone make some great IEMs; make sure to pick up some memory foam tips. [1] I usually use the heavy rain sounds in the "White Noise" app, but there are free generation websites out there too.
• lcall 10y ago
  I am very distracted by sounds. The best I've found so far is a combination of: 1- 3Ms "peltor X5a" headphones (there might be better ones now, but a quick amazon search shows some results, they are ~$25). 2- noise-blocking earbuds underneath them (searching amazon will probably turn them up, maybe ~$15?). I think the ones I got were like foam ear plugs, but with a tube down the middle for the sound. 3- some white-noise app (like maybe "chroma doze" from the f-droid store, or "relax and sleep" from the play store; those are the ones I've used). No connection to the above but as a pleased consumer. I don't know if the above will suit audiophile purists--I love good music but more for the "intelligent conversation & expression" aspect than the purity of reproduction, so YMMV. (I look forward to reading others' comments here...but it's been a day already so I'm posting first in case it's useful to anyone.) This combo works for me much better than the friendly Bose noise-cancelling headphones I bought ~2000 (which, or others like them, also might be much better now). But I read that the noise-cancelling concept is weak for ambient (eg office) noise, because it is not constant enough for the cancellation mechanism to pick it up and block it all fast enough. So it is more like for airplane engine noise which is more constant.