5 ms·

French salaries are much lower and taxes are extremely high for high income earners. There's more than one tax on your income! There's the regular "impôt" but a

by frwo 10y ago

French salaries are much lower and taxes are extremely high for high income earners. There's more than one tax on your income! There's the regular "impôt" but also the "contribution solidarité" which is legally considered "not a tax" but cost you a percentage of your income. And a "taxe d'habitation" too (which is proportional to your rent rather than income). There's quite a bit of misrepresentation and wordplay all over, so be careful if you are used to different social norms. France has been in a state of emergency ("état d'urgence") since november 2015, having been prolonged many times. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States_of_emergency_in_France https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/States_of_emergency_in_France Having said that, the longer vacations are indeed true but that's the case for other European countries too. I don't see how making one administrative task a bit easier (while all others can be extremely difficult) is going attract talent, except through the usual misrepresentation.

yardie 10y ago
I've lived in France and the US. At the lowend salaries are almost the same. In continental Europe its extremely hard to break the 6-figure salary barrier. Now that I'm working back in the US after 12 years abroad I find we're at about the same level if we'd stayed in Paris. Salary is up but so are healthcare costs, childcare costs, transportation. While my effectively salary is double my take home is only 20% higher. And I get 10 days paid vacation. Which is completely fucking laughable. Dining out is also very expensive. Just had a mediocre meal at an asian fusion restaurant and the final bill was 60 with taxes and tips included. I'm typing this on a French MBP keyboard which is really impractical but it's what I'm used to.
- frwo 10y ago
  I agree that lowend salaries are comparable but presumably people working on a startup are earning anything but lowend. The social benefits are only worthwhile when you are older (you should have done it the other way around :) ) and you are reminded of the administrative difficulties half the time you use them. Mid-range food may be less expensive here but service is just terrible (well, not 100% of the time but it happens often enough to be really annoying). I thought the AZERTY and QWERTY layouts were about the same if you touchtype. There should be a software option to switch it.
  - xienze 10y ago
    > presumably people working on a startup are earning anything but lowend. Perhaps not, and that's the reason for this program.
  - tom_mellior 10y ago
    > I thought the AZERTY and QWERTY layouts were about the same if you touchtype. ... and never need a comma, or numbers.
    - crucialfelix 10y ago
      or never need to program: ( ) { } [ ] ; @ I have a German kezboard (sic) but I run it in US mode. I have no idea how any programmer can use the standard German layout (and many I know use US keyboards).
      - guitarbill 10y ago
        This. All good manufacturers (Apple, Dell, Lenovo) allow you to spec US keyboards when you order. macOS is good because of it's composing. You can compose umlauts by pressing option+u and then the "base" vowel, sz/ß is option+s. Same with accents, that's option+e/option+i and more. The Spanish ñ one is option+n, n.
  - yardie 10y ago
    As illustrated by PGs post from a few days ago on YC startups and the ACA, benefits are useful at any age, whether you are an octogenarian or a 20yo founder with Crohns. Most startups I know are Ramen noodle phase. Having a bit of govt help would be useful and could definitely help founders hold on to their equity rather than exchange it to pay next months rent. In the US it's the same. You pay for it, then they guilt you into not using it. And if you need the more extreme help it literally becomes a full time job to wait in line and file paperwork week after week. I miss the Paris service. You waive them down when you want something. They stay out of your way. Here, they are hovering around constantly asking me if I need anything. I don't think that kind of attention warrants $20 tips. If it came down to it I can pour my own damn drink. So French Apple keyboards have some fundamental differences with accents. And if you need numbers it's 2 keys as you need to invoke the shift key to the number and calculator functions. And if you have a complex environment, ex. remoting from mac to Linux server good look finding the pipe | key.
noplay 10y ago
And in the US you have federal and state taxes. For a family with child you will probably pay less taxes in France than in San Francisco. Bonus point: all your taxes are prefilled by governement you just need to confirm on the website.
- user5994461 10y ago
  There are 3 consecutive taxes on your salary. There is only the last ones that depends on your family.
- Hasknewbie 10y ago
  > Bonus point: all your taxes are prefilled by governement you just need to confirm on the website. A very odd thing to say, since in most of (Northern, at least) Europe salaries are paid tax-deducted. When I was in the UK my salary was my net income, nothing to declare or confirm. And it's been like that since the 60s.
scott_karana 10y ago
> France has been in a state of emergency ("état d'urgence") since november 2015, having been prolonged many times. ...and the "temporary" PATRIOT act has (mainly) kept being renewed since 2001, plus all that nice extrajudicial surveillance and gag orders. Fearmongering seems like the regular state of governance in the first world, at this point: it's not exclusive to France.

by frwo 10y ago

yardie 10y ago

I've lived in France and the US. At the lowend salaries are almost the same. In continental Europe its extremely hard to break the 6-figure salary barrier. Now that I'm working back in the US after 12 years abroad I find we're at about the same level if we'd stayed in Paris. Salary is up but so are healthcare costs, childcare costs, transportation. While my effectively salary is double my take home is only 20% higher. And I get 10 days paid vacation. Which is completely fucking laughable. Dining out is also very expensive. Just had a mediocre meal at an asian fusion restaurant and the final bill was 60 with taxes and tips included. I'm typing this on a French MBP keyboard which is really impractical but it's what I'm used to.

frwo 10y ago
I agree that lowend salaries are comparable but presumably people working on a startup are earning anything but lowend. The social benefits are only worthwhile when you are older (you should have done it the other way around :) ) and you are reminded of the administrative difficulties half the time you use them. Mid-range food may be less expensive here but service is just terrible (well, not 100% of the time but it happens often enough to be really annoying). I thought the AZERTY and QWERTY layouts were about the same if you touchtype. There should be a software option to switch it.
- xienze 10y ago
  > presumably people working on a startup are earning anything but lowend. Perhaps not, and that's the reason for this program.
- tom_mellior 10y ago
  > I thought the AZERTY and QWERTY layouts were about the same if you touchtype. ... and never need a comma, or numbers.
  - crucialfelix 10y ago
    or never need to program: ( ) { } [ ] ; @ I have a German kezboard (sic) but I run it in US mode. I have no idea how any programmer can use the standard German layout (and many I know use US keyboards).
    - guitarbill 10y ago
      This. All good manufacturers (Apple, Dell, Lenovo) allow you to spec US keyboards when you order. macOS is good because of it's composing. You can compose umlauts by pressing option+u and then the "base" vowel, sz/ß is option+s. Same with accents, that's option+e/option+i and more. The Spanish ñ one is option+n, n.
- yardie 10y ago
  As illustrated by PGs post from a few days ago on YC startups and the ACA, benefits are useful at any age, whether you are an octogenarian or a 20yo founder with Crohns. Most startups I know are Ramen noodle phase. Having a bit of govt help would be useful and could definitely help founders hold on to their equity rather than exchange it to pay next months rent. In the US it's the same. You pay for it, then they guilt you into not using it. And if you need the more extreme help it literally becomes a full time job to wait in line and file paperwork week after week. I miss the Paris service. You waive them down when you want something. They stay out of your way. Here, they are hovering around constantly asking me if I need anything. I don't think that kind of attention warrants $20 tips. If it came down to it I can pour my own damn drink. So French Apple keyboards have some fundamental differences with accents. And if you need numbers it's 2 keys as you need to invoke the shift key to the number and calculator functions. And if you have a complex environment, ex. remoting from mac to Linux server good look finding the pipe | key.

noplay 10y ago

And in the US you have federal and state taxes. For a family with child you will probably pay less taxes in France than in San Francisco. Bonus point: all your taxes are prefilled by governement you just need to confirm on the website.

user5994461 10y ago
There are 3 consecutive taxes on your salary. There is only the last ones that depends on your family.
Hasknewbie 10y ago
> Bonus point: all your taxes are prefilled by governement you just need to confirm on the website. A very odd thing to say, since in most of (Northern, at least) Europe salaries are paid tax-deducted. When I was in the UK my salary was my net income, nothing to declare or confirm. And it's been like that since the 60s.

scott_karana 10y ago

> France has been in a state of emergency ("état d'urgence") since november 2015, having been prolonged many times. ...and the "temporary" PATRIOT act has (mainly) kept being renewed since 2001, plus all that nice extrajudicial surveillance and gag orders. Fearmongering seems like the regular state of governance in the first world, at this point: it's not exclusive to France.