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What are salaries like for mid-senior level software engineers working in tech companies in Paris? What are the tax rates i.e pay after taxes?
by bankim 10y ago
What are salaries like for mid-senior level software engineers working in tech companies in Paris? What are the tax rates i.e pay after taxes?
- esquevin 10y agoYou'll definitely earn way less, but you'll be entitled to a lot of vacations (5~7 weeks of paid vacations). The Americans I know that went to work to France don't want to go back
- javajosh 10y agoSo do the Americans like it in France and want to stay there? The wording of your comment makes it unclear.
- jjawssd 10y agoThe Americans that went to France earn less money but want to stay there because they have more vacation time and presumably better quality of life
- steelbird 10y agoThe context suggests they like it in France. Could be clearer though.
- david927 10y agoI'm an American that just spent five years in France. My experience, for what it's worth: I can't say enough nice things about it in every aspect outside of work. I lived in the south of France and I now realize how nice life can be. Life -- not work. Working there was a nightmare. The pay is low, and while you can live on it, you're not really saving. For a while I was part of the startup community there and while there are many great programs from the government, there is a bit of a local mafia deciding things. Investors were so unsophisticated that technology itself seemed to scare them. All-in-all, if I could have made it work, I would have done so in a heartbeat. Living there is simply a small piece of heaven on earth. There's just no way to viably work there that I could find.
- throwaway1892 10y agoI would say 46+ k€, before taxes, which are 33% corporate tax rate and ~30% on personal income. But I'm not sure how it applies to people with tech visa.
- mamadrood 10y ago46k is really low in France for an experienced dev and that's outside of Paris. Junior dev engineer earn at least 45k when they begin in Paris, and it gets to 60k in about 5-10 years. Also corporate taxes are about 23% but you're right on personal income.
- throwaway1892 10y agoWell, my 36k salary, while working around Paris, disagree with your assertion.
- Chris2048 10y agoBegging the question - what do you do, and how long have you worked...
- throwaway1892 10y agoI've had my Engineer's Degrees from ISEP last year and I'm working at Alten since October 2016. My official title is development engineer (Ingénieur d'études). Before that, I've done two six-months internship as a junior java dev. Alten is a technology and engineering consulting company, which means, in the context of the French market, that when a company, need a particular profile (like java dev) to staff a position for a set amount of time (like for the expected duration of a project), they'll contract Alten for a developer, java, for x months.
- Chris2048 10y agoSound like a temp agency, ala Accenture. Does it track market rates? I've worked for a company before that took fresh grads, and relied strongly on them never entering the market for themselves and realising what market rate was.
- jchampem 10y agoYou can expect something from 50k to 70k€ (gross salary) dependending on the company and your experience. Remove 25% of that to have an idea of your net salary. (Those 25% are mostly for your retirement plan, social security and unemployment insurance. All of those are mandatory) Expect to pay between 1 and 2 months net salary in yearly incomes taxes.
- jjawssd 10y agoThat sounds like double or triple the amount of tax Americans in a similar role have to pay at home
- rfrey 10y agoThat works out to 37.5% tax. I paid considerably more than that working in California when you include health insurance.
- adventured 10y agoConsiderably more - that's surprising. Would you mind breaking out more exact numbers?
- fancy_pantser 10y agoJust to use round numbers, here is a breakdown for a single person making $120k/yr in California at a typical tech company. Monthly gross income: $10000 Federal tax $1494 Medicare $144 Social Security $616 CA Income Tax $751 CA Disability $89 Pretax deductions: Medical $56 Dental $5 Vision $2 Monthly take-home amount: $6843 (68.4% of gross)
- dmode 10y agoThis sounds right
- balfirevic 10y ago
- EnglishInFrance 10y agoLet me know if you find reliable numbers. The French culture on this is very different, people simply don't talk about money and salary. I found a starting salary survey in a business magazine that indicated graduates of the top 5 engineering schools are getting about 40-55K/year
- devilsbabe 10y agoI just graduated from Ecole Centrale Paris, usually second on engineering school rankings after Ecole Polytechnique. I found a job in web development in a small startup in November and am making ~45k a year.
- sylvinus 10y agoOthers have replied on the salary ranges, but don't forget to factor in free healthcare, excellent public schools, ...
- Chris2048 10y agofree healthcare needs to factor in quality. There are plenty EU countries with free healthcare that is so poor people will pay to avoid it.
- coredog64 10y agoFrance doesn't offer "free healthcare". If you go to the doctor on an outpatient basis, you pay for the visit up front* and will be reimbursed 80% of the reasonable and customary charges. If you need to go to the hospital, then you're not paying anything. Medicine is reimbursed at a lower rate with it's own plusses and minuses: Many items that would be over the counter in the US require a prescription (e.g. lactase enzyme). So it's a hassle to get it, but you'll also get reimbursed for it if you need it. The schools are good, but they are also going to be very hard on your kids unless they are very young. Homework volume is high, and my own cynical view is that at least part of it is training kids for the experience of dealing with the difficulties of filling out lots of paperwork and dealing with the French civil service. Source: Worked for two years in a French overseas territory. The indigent and extremely poor have special programs whereby they are exempted from this. *You can buy additional insurance that will increase the coverage to 100% and/or remove the need to pre-pay. That comes with the tradeoff of having to use the provider network that the insurance company has (a la US healthcare).
- emmanuel_1234 10y agoAn important point you seem to be missing, is that stuff that are not free but deemed a necessity (e.g.: family doctor consultation, drugs...) are capped. What they are allowed to charge at most is decided by law (in exchange, they get to control how many people gets to go to (~free) Medical School every year -- it's far from ideal, but not a terrible balance).
- xienze 10y ago
- oaron 10y agoI am using https://salaryaftertax.com/fr https://salaryaftertax.com/fr to compute the net salary, but I am not sure whether it offers the complete picture. Could anyone familiar with the taxation in France offer more details?
- jchampem 10y agoThis seems to be accurately calculating the income taxes, but that's not taking into account the corporate taxes. If a French employer tells you they'll pay you 100k€ annually (just for the sake of the example), you can expect to receive 75k€. (25%, mostly for your retirement plan, social security and unemployment insurance. Mandatory) Then, if you input those 75k in this tool, it will tell you what you can expect to pay as income taxes. In the case of 75k, 17 218€.
- Chris2048 10y ago42% tax then? Better rate than I get :-/
- user5994461 10y agoThere is another 25% rate that is paid directly by the company to the state.
- Igpoawsh 10y agoAnother data point (throwaway for privacy reasons) -- senior data scientist, 5 years experience, in Paris, working for a large American networking company. I am making 65 kEUR gross incl. bonus, i.e. 40 kEUR after all taxes. And I am happy to be leaving soon for job in London paying 85 kGBP gross.
- jchampem 10y agoAfaik, rents in London are pretty outrageous if you don't want something at the far end of a Tube line...
- Igpoawsh 10y agoI still expect to be better off there. I rent a 1BR place in Paris for 850 EUR, and I expect to find something comparable in London for 1500 GBP. That means that the flat in London costs about 800 EUR more, which is less than the salary increase I'll be making.
- user5994461 10y agoFor your information 65 k€ = 3358 € per months (on "12 mois") after all taxes, if single living alone. 85 k£ = 4712 £ per month, after all taxes. Also, 65 k€ is a fairly good end of career in France whereas 85 k£ is a good middle experience in London (and you can get bonus, pension and perks on top).
- jaymzcampbell 10y agoI live in Harrow in a nice one bedroom for £995. It's in Zone 5 which is far out, but the Metropolitan line has fast trains that go straight to Zone 2 in the morning so you can be in Liverpool Street in around 40 minutes. That said, if you're thinking of dropping £1500 on a 1 bed you'll have no problem IMO. I was paying £1400 for a 2 bedroom with garden and huge living room in Leytonstone only a few months back. As long as you're not planning on living in Mayfair or Kensington that's a nice budget to work with.
- tom_mellior 10y ago> What are salaries like for mid-senior level software engineers working in tech companies in Paris? Looking at what StackOverflow's Jobs tab spits out right now, I see: software engineer Java 38k-60k; software engineer Python 40k-55k; DevOps engineer (not your idea, I guess? there's a number of these) 40k-55k; developer for 3D applications 38k-48k; ... Then there is one for a senior Java engineer for 47k-59k and right above another one for a senior Java engineer for 60k-120k. These numbers are gross. Based on other posts, deduct 35-40% to account for things taken out of your paycheck (including health care) plus the income tax and rental tax you have to pay after. Rent for a small apartment in Paris starts about 1000 Euros per month and rises steeply.
- regi 10y ago38% + about 1 month of net income to pay each year as income tax. There's absolutely no visibility on retirement plan. You just know that you earn "points", with no idea what they're worth. Also, when you rent in France you have to pay a tax (similar to property tax) which, depending on the city, can be quite high (~1 month of rent/year). VAT is 22% on most products. Gas is expensive (highways too!!!). Train (TGV) is ridiculously expensive.
- tom_mellior 10y ago> 38% + about 1 month of net income to pay each year as income tax. My 35-40% figure includes the income tax and the rental tax. You must be in a crazy high bracket if you get 38% deducted every month. On my last pay slip, it's 17.5%, but I get paid around the lower end of the salary brackets I posted above. > VAT is 22% on most products. 20% > Gas is expensive (highways too!!!). Maybe. I prefer spending my money on better things than a car.