5 ms·

Paris is great, grew up there. You just have to be comfortable with the fact that more than half of your money get taken by the government for taxes and social

by geff82 10y ago

Paris is great, grew up there. You just have to be comfortable with the fact that more than half of your money get taken by the government for taxes and social security.

CretinDesAlpes 10y ago
I think it's more like 40%. But at least we have free schools, free universities (ok, sometimes 500EUR/year) and a decent public health service. I also grew up and lived in France for 20+ years and have lived in UK for 5+ years. It's true that I earn more in UK than in France but for example to compare public health systems, although both are free, NHS is really the worse and it does not seem it's going to get any better in the future.
- jjawssd 10y ago
  So what you are saying is that it is a great place if you are content with the government deciding how to spend a very large portion of your hard earned income? Is there even an incentive to work? What are the unemployment benefits?
  - harperlee 10y ago
    That portrayal of the French system is a little bit biased. You could just as well say: So what you are saying is that it is a great place if you are content with the government saving your life when you are ill without expecting hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills that will ruin the rest of your life? Without considering whether you are able to pay, as if you were a human being that deserves help and humanity? And helping you if you lose your job??!?! As you see, neither of them helps the discussion a lot, as they are aggressive and the typical reaction would be to take a defensive position. > Is there even an incentive to work? Most of the people there work. A little bit later, as they take more vacation. And they survive. And on average wouldn't trade it for an American lifestyle. It is a matter of life choices. And the point is that these programs enhance mobility so more people can choose, which is better.
- adventured 10y ago
  What have those non-free, taxation based, universities produced? 25 years of economic stagnation, low innovation, increasing marginalization of France as a consequential economy in the global order (they've been sinking down the list for 40 years), perpetual high unemployment, and a GDP per capita that has failed to keep up to such a dramatic degree that it needs to climb 70% to catch the US. With results like those, the tax payers are clearly not getting a good return on their non-free education system.
  - dmode 10y ago
    Other than GDP (which frankly benefits 5% of US population), everything is better in France. Better roads, better public transportation, high speed rails, healthcare, education. Even small and remote villages in France have high quality roads, rail connections etc. and doesn't look run down and entrenched in poverty.
    - adventured 10y ago
      GDP only benefits 5% of the population? Oh really. That doesn't sound right at all given the fact that the US median disposable income is far higher than France. Not to mention the median wage growth is four to five times faster in the US than in France. So much for your theory. Demographically France is about 80% white. The US median white household has an income of $73,000 as of 2016 ($108,000 with a college education) and a median net worth of nearly $150,000. Both higher than France. I use the direct demographic comparison, because it would be absurd to compare an 8th generation French family to a first or second generation Latin American family in the US (the US is 63% white by comparison, with far more immigration on a percentage basis in the last 40 years than France has seen). The US has a superior university education system. It's not even remotely close. That has been the case globally since WW2. The rest of the world has been trying to catch up and copy what the US accomplished with its universities, for decades. The top 50 US universities put France to shame. The US has a far lower unemployment rate. The US is a high innovation economy, France is a low innovation economy, which you can witness across nearly every economic area in comparing the US to France. The US is superior to France in: manufacturing, agriculture, aerospace, software, Internet broadly, mobile, medtech, biotech & pharma, and energy. The US has a far more dynamic small business economy than France does, with a much more liberal entrepreneur culture. The US has less air pollution than France; NYC has dramatically cleaner air than Paris. Per the OECD better life index, the bottom 10% in the US are far better off than the bottom 10% in France. The US poverty line is also much higher than it is in France. Better infrastructure in France? Eurozone spending on infrastructure per dollar of GDP, is now below that of the US, and that's really saying something because the US level is far too low. How long do you suppose France can continue to maintain what it does have, with such persistently low wage growth, such persistently low GDP growth, such high taxes and high regulation?

by geff82 10y ago

Paris is great, grew up there. You just have to be comfortable with the fact that more than half of your money get taken by the government for taxes and social security.

CretinDesAlpes 10y ago

I think it's more like 40%. But at least we have free schools, free universities (ok, sometimes 500EUR/year) and a decent public health service. I also grew up and lived in France for 20+ years and have lived in UK for 5+ years. It's true that I earn more in UK than in France but for example to compare public health systems, although both are free, NHS is really the worse and it does not seem it's going to get any better in the future.

jjawssd 10y ago
So what you are saying is that it is a great place if you are content with the government deciding how to spend a very large portion of your hard earned income? Is there even an incentive to work? What are the unemployment benefits?
- harperlee 10y ago
  That portrayal of the French system is a little bit biased. You could just as well say: So what you are saying is that it is a great place if you are content with the government saving your life when you are ill without expecting hundreds of thousands of dollars in medical bills that will ruin the rest of your life? Without considering whether you are able to pay, as if you were a human being that deserves help and humanity? And helping you if you lose your job??!?! As you see, neither of them helps the discussion a lot, as they are aggressive and the typical reaction would be to take a defensive position. > Is there even an incentive to work? Most of the people there work. A little bit later, as they take more vacation. And they survive. And on average wouldn't trade it for an American lifestyle. It is a matter of life choices. And the point is that these programs enhance mobility so more people can choose, which is better.
adventured 10y ago
What have those non-free, taxation based, universities produced? 25 years of economic stagnation, low innovation, increasing marginalization of France as a consequential economy in the global order (they've been sinking down the list for 40 years), perpetual high unemployment, and a GDP per capita that has failed to keep up to such a dramatic degree that it needs to climb 70% to catch the US. With results like those, the tax payers are clearly not getting a good return on their non-free education system.
- dmode 10y ago
  Other than GDP (which frankly benefits 5% of US population), everything is better in France. Better roads, better public transportation, high speed rails, healthcare, education. Even small and remote villages in France have high quality roads, rail connections etc. and doesn't look run down and entrenched in poverty.
  - adventured 10y ago
    GDP only benefits 5% of the population? Oh really. That doesn't sound right at all given the fact that the US median disposable income is far higher than France. Not to mention the median wage growth is four to five times faster in the US than in France. So much for your theory. Demographically France is about 80% white. The US median white household has an income of $73,000 as of 2016 ($108,000 with a college education) and a median net worth of nearly $150,000. Both higher than France. I use the direct demographic comparison, because it would be absurd to compare an 8th generation French family to a first or second generation Latin American family in the US (the US is 63% white by comparison, with far more immigration on a percentage basis in the last 40 years than France has seen). The US has a superior university education system. It's not even remotely close. That has been the case globally since WW2. The rest of the world has been trying to catch up and copy what the US accomplished with its universities, for decades. The top 50 US universities put France to shame. The US has a far lower unemployment rate. The US is a high innovation economy, France is a low innovation economy, which you can witness across nearly every economic area in comparing the US to France. The US is superior to France in: manufacturing, agriculture, aerospace, software, Internet broadly, mobile, medtech, biotech & pharma, and energy. The US has a far more dynamic small business economy than France does, with a much more liberal entrepreneur culture. The US has less air pollution than France; NYC has dramatically cleaner air than Paris. Per the OECD better life index, the bottom 10% in the US are far better off than the bottom 10% in France. The US poverty line is also much higher than it is in France. Better infrastructure in France? Eurozone spending on infrastructure per dollar of GDP, is now below that of the US, and that's really saying something because the US level is far too low. How long do you suppose France can continue to maintain what it does have, with such persistently low wage growth, such persistently low GDP growth, such high taxes and high regulation?