5 ms·

Undocumented implies they're perfectly fine immigrants, we just don't know about them. This is misleading. Illegal immigrants are criminals, and there's nothin

Undocumented implies they're perfectly fine immigrants, we just don't know about them. This is misleading. Illegal immigrants are criminals, and there's nothing wrong with referring to them as such. You wouldn't refer to someone who breaks into your house as an "undocumented roommate" either.

omegaworks 10y ago
That we liken living productively in our country to a criminal act serves only to show the degeneration of our national dialogue. We've let the political elites divide us and scapegoat the people with the least amount of power.
- kahrkunne 10y ago
  If they were actually a positive contribution to the country one would think that they'd have been able to immigrate legally. Even if they are a positive contribution, that just means we should have a good look at immigration procedures, not that we should use misleading euphemisms for lawbreakers.
  - omegaworks 10y ago
    The disconnect between productive contribution and legal, protected status is precisely what is abused by the people in power to extract cheap labor. Cheaper then it should be if these employers were forced to pay minimum wage, follow labor laws and couldn't threaten their workers with taxpayer-funded deportation if they got out of line. You're targeting the wrong end of the equation.
- toomuchtodo 10y ago
  If you are illegally in a country, you're utilizing a job that could be worked by a citizen, or a job where the wage would have to rise to be worked by a citizen. I don't care if you're in the country being productive; if you haven't immigrated legally, you're breaking the law and should be deported.
  - omegaworks 10y ago
    What would you do if your village was subject to regular famine, had no economic opportunities or is subject to regular cartel violence? Starve? Die? Or look for any and every opportunity to feed your family? They don't run the drug war, we do. They don't negotiate trade deals that collapse sustainable farming businesses, we do. They don't exert hegemonic power over the hemisphere, we do. They don't run businesses dependent on cheap displaced, marginalized labor, we do. Whether you like it or not we are all connected. If you think a "yuuuge golden wall" or more deportation will do anything but shift around the underlying macroeconomic effects and migrant flows: congratulations you've bought the propaganda, hook line and sinker.
  - bertil 10y ago
    > a job that could be worked by a citizen That remains to be proven. In most cases that I am familiar with, immigrants without official authorisation (trying to find a compromise way of describing those) but with a job (not all have one) do something that no undocumented person (taking the wider category) wants to do, at least not at that price. > if you haven't immigrated legally, you're breaking the law and should be deported. Obligatory reference to the very likely, if not recent, violent past of your own heritage to remind you that things tend to not be that simple.

omegaworks 10y ago

That we liken living productively in our country to a criminal act serves only to show the degeneration of our national dialogue. We've let the political elites divide us and scapegoat the people with the least amount of power.

kahrkunne 10y ago
If they were actually a positive contribution to the country one would think that they'd have been able to immigrate legally. Even if they are a positive contribution, that just means we should have a good look at immigration procedures, not that we should use misleading euphemisms for lawbreakers.
- omegaworks 10y ago
  The disconnect between productive contribution and legal, protected status is precisely what is abused by the people in power to extract cheap labor. Cheaper then it should be if these employers were forced to pay minimum wage, follow labor laws and couldn't threaten their workers with taxpayer-funded deportation if they got out of line. You're targeting the wrong end of the equation.
toomuchtodo 10y ago
If you are illegally in a country, you're utilizing a job that could be worked by a citizen, or a job where the wage would have to rise to be worked by a citizen. I don't care if you're in the country being productive; if you haven't immigrated legally, you're breaking the law and should be deported.
- omegaworks 10y ago
  What would you do if your village was subject to regular famine, had no economic opportunities or is subject to regular cartel violence? Starve? Die? Or look for any and every opportunity to feed your family? They don't run the drug war, we do. They don't negotiate trade deals that collapse sustainable farming businesses, we do. They don't exert hegemonic power over the hemisphere, we do. They don't run businesses dependent on cheap displaced, marginalized labor, we do. Whether you like it or not we are all connected. If you think a "yuuuge golden wall" or more deportation will do anything but shift around the underlying macroeconomic effects and migrant flows: congratulations you've bought the propaganda, hook line and sinker.
- bertil 10y ago
  > a job that could be worked by a citizen That remains to be proven. In most cases that I am familiar with, immigrants without official authorisation (trying to find a compromise way of describing those) but with a job (not all have one) do something that no undocumented person (taking the wider category) wants to do, at least not at that price. > if you haven't immigrated legally, you're breaking the law and should be deported. Obligatory reference to the very likely, if not recent, violent past of your own heritage to remind you that things tend to not be that simple.