4 ms·

I don't think visibly marking Homeless people is ethical. They did that to Jewish people way back when. Am I looking at the wrong photo, or is it really a vis

I don't think visibly marking Homeless people is ethical. They did that to Jewish people way back when. Am I looking at the wrong photo, or is it really a visible homeless badge? Yeah, it really is a giant homeless badge: http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2017/01/contactless-payment-jacket-created-for-homeless-people/ http://www.gizmodo.co.uk/2017/01/contactless-payment-jacket-...

anotheryou 10y ago
Why not make it a sticker or just something to hold... I'd also like to know from someone who has been in that situation, maybe even an addict, what he thinks of the limitation on what he can spend the money on. I guess it's good because people will spend more and it can't fuel an addiction, but it also strips you from some more freedom. I also wonder if registration is somewhat anonymous with no questions asked for illegals, minors etc.
- RichardHeart 10y ago
  Spending restrictions are evaded by trading with a person the goods you're allowed to buy for a lower value of goods you're not.
  - anotheryou 10y ago
    I'd hope the offered things become abundant enough.
- omegaworks 10y ago
  > illegals I'm sure it's not your intention, but you further dehumanize individuals when you use that word to describe their immigration status. Please consider "the undocumented" instead. http://youtu.be/vehgRK3ieVM http://youtu.be/vehgRK3ieVM
  - RichardHeart 10y ago
    >dehumanize I'm sure it's not your intention, but you further dehumanize individuals when you use that word to describe how they're being treated when called their common nickname. Please consider that when you try to force people to use your words to push an agenda, you harm the plight of those you are trying to help. Further, that video was terrible. Humans create abbreviations and nicknames for tons of things without regard to legal validity. Do you have any other lists of common nicknames we're not allowed to use? Like can I still call Green Bay Packers fans cheeseheads?
    - johnchristopher 10y ago
      > Like can I still call Green Bay Packers fans cheeseheads? No, because you are a grown up person and you don't need derogatory terms to appear cool or hip.
      - RichardHeart 10y ago
        "The term, however, was quickly embraced by Wisconsinites and is now a point of pride" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheesehead https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheesehead I'm ok with a substitute example for an acceptable group nickname if you have one on offer.
        johnchristopher 10y ago
        Haha, I got owned :D. Not living in the US, not from the US and cheesehead sounded like an insult to my ears. Still I believe that not every nicknames or abbreviations is a good thing.
        kwhitefoot 10y ago
        It probably was originally an insult by an opposing side's fans.
    - omegaworks 10y ago
      Not forcing. Just making an argument for the usage of a term that doesn't harken back to authoritarian regimes that encouraged the use of that "common nickname" to label people and normalize the practice of sending those people to gas chambers.
  - anotheryou 10y ago
    I actually wondered what to write or if I should make quotes arround it. thanks.
  - icebraining 10y ago
    Seems like a poor substitution term. One can be undocumented without being an immigrant (legal or otherwise). Some of my family members have been in all three situations at different points in time.
  - kahrkunne 10y ago
    Undocumented implies they're perfectly fine immigrants, we just don't know about them. This is misleading. Illegal immigrants are criminals, and there's nothing wrong with referring to them as such. You wouldn't refer to someone who breaks into your house as an "undocumented roommate" either.
    - omegaworks 10y ago
      That we liken living productively in our country to a criminal act serves only to show the degeneration of our national dialogue. We've let the political elites divide us and scapegoat the people with the least amount of power.
      - kahrkunne 10y ago
        If they were actually a positive contribution to the country one would think that they'd have been able to immigrate legally. Even if they are a positive contribution, that just means we should have a good look at immigration procedures, not that we should use misleading euphemisms for lawbreakers.
        omegaworks 10y ago
        The disconnect between productive contribution and legal, protected status is precisely what is abused by the people in power to extract cheap labor. Cheaper then it should be if these employers were forced to pay minimum wage, follow labor laws and couldn't threaten their workers with taxpayer-funded deportation if they got out of line. You're targeting the wrong end of the equation.
      - toomuchtodo 10y ago
        If you are illegally in a country, you're utilizing a job that could be worked by a citizen, or a job where the wage would have to rise to be worked by a citizen. I don't care if you're in the country being productive; if you haven't immigrated legally, you're breaking the law and should be deported.
richthegeek 10y ago
Living in Manchester (highest homeless population in the UK whoop whoop) we have a lot of problems with people who aren't actually homeless soliciting donations and then going home at night. A solution the council has tried is to provide people with 'proof of homelessness' a badge+lanyard. It's something to check for before giving any money/food, and I believe it's a required possession for certain forms of assistance (soup kitchens, shelters, etc.). However, I've been told by one homeless guy that they are traded away quite quickly to non-homeless beggars as the council will simply replace 'lost' badges. So it's two sides of the argument. Without some visual identification, people take the mick. Even with it, it causes issues.

anotheryou 10y ago

Why not make it a sticker or just something to hold... I'd also like to know from someone who has been in that situation, maybe even an addict, what he thinks of the limitation on what he can spend the money on. I guess it's good because people will spend more and it can't fuel an addiction, but it also strips you from some more freedom. I also wonder if registration is somewhat anonymous with no questions asked for illegals, minors etc.

RichardHeart 10y ago
Spending restrictions are evaded by trading with a person the goods you're allowed to buy for a lower value of goods you're not.
- anotheryou 10y ago
  I'd hope the offered things become abundant enough.
omegaworks 10y ago
> illegals I'm sure it's not your intention, but you further dehumanize individuals when you use that word to describe their immigration status. Please consider "the undocumented" instead. http://youtu.be/vehgRK3ieVM http://youtu.be/vehgRK3ieVM
- RichardHeart 10y ago
  >dehumanize I'm sure it's not your intention, but you further dehumanize individuals when you use that word to describe how they're being treated when called their common nickname. Please consider that when you try to force people to use your words to push an agenda, you harm the plight of those you are trying to help. Further, that video was terrible. Humans create abbreviations and nicknames for tons of things without regard to legal validity. Do you have any other lists of common nicknames we're not allowed to use? Like can I still call Green Bay Packers fans cheeseheads?
  - johnchristopher 10y ago
    > Like can I still call Green Bay Packers fans cheeseheads? No, because you are a grown up person and you don't need derogatory terms to appear cool or hip.
    - RichardHeart 10y ago
      "The term, however, was quickly embraced by Wisconsinites and is now a point of pride" https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheesehead https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheesehead I'm ok with a substitute example for an acceptable group nickname if you have one on offer.
      - johnchristopher 10y ago
        Haha, I got owned :D. Not living in the US, not from the US and cheesehead sounded like an insult to my ears. Still I believe that not every nicknames or abbreviations is a good thing.
        kwhitefoot 10y ago
        It probably was originally an insult by an opposing side's fans.
  - omegaworks 10y ago
    Not forcing. Just making an argument for the usage of a term that doesn't harken back to authoritarian regimes that encouraged the use of that "common nickname" to label people and normalize the practice of sending those people to gas chambers.
- anotheryou 10y ago
  I actually wondered what to write or if I should make quotes arround it. thanks.
- icebraining 10y ago
  Seems like a poor substitution term. One can be undocumented without being an immigrant (legal or otherwise). Some of my family members have been in all three situations at different points in time.
- kahrkunne 10y ago
  Undocumented implies they're perfectly fine immigrants, we just don't know about them. This is misleading. Illegal immigrants are criminals, and there's nothing wrong with referring to them as such. You wouldn't refer to someone who breaks into your house as an "undocumented roommate" either.
  - omegaworks 10y ago
    That we liken living productively in our country to a criminal act serves only to show the degeneration of our national dialogue. We've let the political elites divide us and scapegoat the people with the least amount of power.
    - kahrkunne 10y ago
      If they were actually a positive contribution to the country one would think that they'd have been able to immigrate legally. Even if they are a positive contribution, that just means we should have a good look at immigration procedures, not that we should use misleading euphemisms for lawbreakers.
      - omegaworks 10y ago
        The disconnect between productive contribution and legal, protected status is precisely what is abused by the people in power to extract cheap labor. Cheaper then it should be if these employers were forced to pay minimum wage, follow labor laws and couldn't threaten their workers with taxpayer-funded deportation if they got out of line. You're targeting the wrong end of the equation.
    - toomuchtodo 10y ago
      If you are illegally in a country, you're utilizing a job that could be worked by a citizen, or a job where the wage would have to rise to be worked by a citizen. I don't care if you're in the country being productive; if you haven't immigrated legally, you're breaking the law and should be deported.

richthegeek 10y ago

Living in Manchester (highest homeless population in the UK whoop whoop) we have a lot of problems with people who aren't actually homeless soliciting donations and then going home at night. A solution the council has tried is to provide people with 'proof of homelessness' a badge+lanyard. It's something to check for before giving any money/food, and I believe it's a required possession for certain forms of assistance (soup kitchens, shelters, etc.). However, I've been told by one homeless guy that they are traded away quite quickly to non-homeless beggars as the council will simply replace 'lost' badges. So it's two sides of the argument. Without some visual identification, people take the mick. Even with it, it causes issues.