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I bought a Vive the week of Thanksgiving and have been using it roughly 2 hours a day. Every other day is my workout day most of the week (unless I'm playing ho

by evo_9 10y ago

I bought a Vive the week of Thanksgiving and have been using it roughly 2 hours a day. Every other day is my workout day most of the week (unless I'm playing hockey that day/night) and the VIVE has become part of my workout now too. After I complete my normal workout - a mixture of hockey specific training, free weights, aerobic and of course tons of pull-ups - I now spend an additional hour+ in VR. I typically play Space Pirate Trainer first; once I get around level 15-20 things are so hectic I'm moving a ton and often going to one, or both knees. My abs and back can feel it big-time. I start with this game because it's not quite so intense at the start and is a good VR warmup. More impressive is Holopoint - a bow and arrow game. That is easily the most physically demanding VR activity that I've found so far. I'm usually sweeting pretty solidly when I complete 8-10 games of Holopoint. I'm also noticeably fatigued in my arms, back, legs, hips, all over. And just to be clear most would classify me as extremely fit (regularly skate with/against NHL bound Junior players, the minimum pull-ups I do in my workout are 30 consecutive, body fat <10% etc). Lastly I find I am no longer interested in 'regular games'... such as Madden, NHL 16, Gran Turismo, etc (on PS4), or even my all time favorite Dark Souls (series). I simply can't go back to not being physically engaged the way VR games are. VR is going to be absolutely huge in the health/fitness space.

overcast 10y ago
Don't you get incredibly sweaty though? What is that experience like wearing a bulky mask thing? That's currently my biggest beef with these VR headsets, you have to wear some bulky thing on your head.
- RangerScience 10y ago
  Not OP, but familiar with this - I don't notice it much while I'm still in it, but if you take it off and on again, it's then like putting on a sweaty shirt - it's gotten cold and clammy, but warms up and you stop noticing pretty quick. You do need to remember to rinse the padding tho, just like a sponge in the sink. Super easy.
  - overcast 10y ago
    I'll pass. Remind me when VR is a pair of glasses :)
    - Filligree 10y ago
      Have you watched Dennou Coil, by any chance? :O
  - evo_9 10y ago
    Good point - on the Vive you can easily remove the face padding and rinse it off. They also sell replacements, I have a few so I rotate them in/out depending on which is driest etc.
    - Vraxx 10y ago
      I recall reading in most places that you are not supposed to get the HTC default foam pads wet and that it causes them to degrade quicker. Anecdotally, my wide face cushion has way less definition and is squishier than my narrow face cushion. This is definitely in part because the narrow one gets used less often, but I figured sweat was definitely a factor
      - nsxwolf 10y ago
        I've been totally immersing mine and drying it out so far without any problems. Can't be all that different than sweat itself. If we're not supposed to be getting these wet, then we shouldn't be doing VR workouts at all.
        Vraxx 10y ago
        That has been my worry, but I figured I'd just buy new foam pads from HTC at worst. It does say not to get them wet in the manual. To alleviate this, I just purchased replacement pads that were machine washable from a 3rd party supplier.
- evo_9 10y ago
  I do but I don't mind it. I wear a thin head-cap and bought the 'VRCover' which helps absorb the sweet (but is unfortunately made of cotton for some reason). My setup is in the basement too and so it's typically pretty chilly down there so it's probably not quite as bad as it could be. I do have to take the headgear off every few games, towel off head/forehead, and clean up the lens.
  - Vraxx 10y ago
    Which VRCover did you buy specifically for sweat? I bought the memory foam soft cotton one (it's supposed to come in tomorrow" because I wanted to to be washable, but also comfortable in other scenarios, though I very much have the same experience as you described and I'd like to make exercising with VR games a much bigger part of my routine. Edit: I'm mostly curious about the "leather" ones as they sounded uncomfortable for other usage, but specifically aimed at physical exertion.
    - evo_9 10y ago
      I bought this one but I'm not totally happy with it. For now it does the job but I'm sure better options will come out at some point hopefully sooner than later: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LZZ3M8B/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LZZ3M8B/ref=oh_aui_deta...
      - Vraxx 10y ago
        Ohhh, I actually bought one of the replacement foams. Here were the two I was considering, I bought the first of the two I linked and will be getting it tomorrow. https://vrcover.com/product/htc-vive-memory-foam-padding-cotton-18mm/ https://vrcover.com/product/htc-vive-memory-foam-padding-cot... https://vrcover.com/product/htc-vive-memory-foam-padding-cotton-18mm/ https://vrcover.com/product/htc-vive-memory-foam-padding-cot...
    - vanattab 10y ago
      I am looking for a cover that does not soak up the sweat? I like to take the vr to family parties with dozens of people trying the device and the nasty factor can be really if used heavily. I am looking for something that can be wiped with alcohol between uses.
- vanattab 10y ago
  Depending on how active the game is and how much you sweat it can be bad. I am certain that one of the first improvements in future devices will be better ventilation without leaking light.
- frandroid 10y ago
  I haven't done any workout in a VR headset yet but I have cried in one, and the lens got fogged up. Clearly some sort of passive or active ventilation will have to be part of VR headsets.
  - chromaton 10y ago
    >I have cried in one What's the story with that, if you don't mind?
    - frandroid 10y ago
      I visited The Library at Night, a part-VR exhibit by Robert Lepage in Québec City: https://www.mcq.org/en/exposition?id=425961 https://www.mcq.org/en/exposition?id=425961 Alberto Manguel narrates the history of 10 of his favourite libraries. One of them, the Vijećnica library in Sarajevo, had a particularly striking history from the civil war: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vije%C4%87nica https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vije%C4%87nica That got to me.
ska 10y ago
That's an interesting observation - most of the caveats about VR (poor UX/interactions, consumer hardware at least a few generations away from a good v1.0) probably don't really impact this space much as the focus is on other things. People are already demonstrably willing to put on somewhat clunky gear for an hour or two for a workout.
- mwseibel 10y ago
  lol - great point - a squat rack is a pretty bulky piece of equipment too!
RangerScience 10y ago
+1 Holopoint! It feels like dancing.
drewrv 10y ago
Have you tried Holoball or Audioshield? Those are my go-to games when I'm looking for some exercise.
- evo_9 10y ago
  I use to use Audioshield for the workout but I find Space Pirate and Holopoint to be more intense. I haven't seen Holoball, sounds awesome thanks!
  - Greenisus 10y ago
    Holoball is my current favorite, but I have to try these others tonight
dchuk 10y ago
So do you just have some huge empty room/garage in your house then? Are you ever afraid of smashing into stuff around you that you can't see because of the goggles?
- evo_9 10y ago
  I have half my basement setup for hockey specific workout stuff, I call it 'Hockey Heaven', and repurposed part of the area for VR use too. You can see pictures of it on my old blog below (which I'm in the process of relaunching as a VR specific site in the next month or so). https://existentialquandary.wordpress.com/hockey-heaven/ https://existentialquandary.wordpress.com/hockey-heaven/ This is before I setup the VIVE so basically I hung the sensors around the 'blue line area' and put all my computer gear on the desk in the corner.
  - cgh 10y ago
    Your hockey setup is fantastic, nice work. And that is some sick stick handling. Watch the pullups. I fried my elbows by doing too many. Doing them on rings is much better (if you don't do them that way already, I don't know). Interesting that you are taking PQQ. I've been meaning to research this stuff. I also noticed no creatine was listed. It probably belongs in your anti-aging stack as it has neuroprotective properties, along with its other well-established effects on muscle power output.
  - markdog12 10y ago
    Pretty damn jealous over here. More for the hockey than the VR. Sweet setup. What's the floor made of?
- thenomad 10y ago
  The Vive chaperone tech is really good. I've been developing with my living room as my VR space for months now - as well as getting other people in to playtest a physically intense, scare-heavy game requiring fast movement - and to date we've only had one even moderately close call with a controller nearly whacking my TV. And that was my fault for setting the chaperone bounds a bit optimistically.
brilliantcode 10y ago
How do you deal with neck muscle strain from the weight of the device which also gets soaked in sweat? I think it's great that you've been able to exercise but for me those two points are still a big area of potential innovation.
- corysama 10y ago
  If sweat becomes a persistent issue, products like https://vrcover.com/ https://vrcover.com/ will become standard.
thenomad 10y ago
Additional workout suggestion: try Thrill Of The Fight ( http://store.steampowered.com/app/494150/ http://store.steampowered.com/app/494150/ ). It's the most physically intense experience I've had in VR so far - I'd say even more intense than Holopoint, although the two are close. Obviously you will have to enjoy boxing for it to be much use or fun, mind! You might also enjoy Climbey (http://store.steampowered.com/app/520010/ http://store.steampowered.com/app/520010/ ) - it doesn't look particularly physical at first but it uses a decent amount of slow muscle movement. I was surprised at how sore I was the morning after a long play session with it. (Oh, and given you love Dark Souls - you have heard of Left-Hand Path ( http://store.steampowered.com/app/488760 http://store.steampowered.com/app/488760 ), which keeps getting described by users as "Dark Souls VR", right? If not, I seriously need to work on my marketing. It's also at least somewhat physical, particularly if you decide to use the dodging mechanics a lot. Full disclosure: I'm the developer of that one.)
- evo_9 10y ago
  I have played Left Hand Path a lot, very intense esp. the boss fight. I can't seem to complete the ruin sequence to get past the end of level one so I put that one on hold until it gets patched, I'm pretty sure I am doing the ruin sequence right... but yeah great Dark-Souls like experience in VR. Can't wait to see what From does in VR. Climbly is good too but it's tough because you still have to move around with their locomotion technique and I find it quite vomit-y unfortunately the way it currently works. Thrill of the Fight is on my list to check out this weekend... new release, looks great :)
  - thenomad 10y ago
    Oh, sorry to hear that! The end of that level does seem to stump people - I'm working on making it much more accessible. If you'd like to either email me (email in my HN profile), reply here, or put up a post on the Steam forums (http://steamcommunity.com/app/488760/discussions/0/ http://steamcommunity.com/app/488760/discussions/0/) I'd be more than happy to help you past that, as there's lots of good stuff beyond! Climbey - yeah, the locomotion does get a little nausea-inducing :( I'm bulletproofed to it after months of VR development!
mysterydip 10y ago
That's a great point that I haven't considered before. Back on the PS2 there was an "eyetoy" camera addon that allowed you to interact with certain games. "Eyetoy: kinetic" was a favorite of mine and my nieces/nephews: they could punch and kick and get rid of enemies or blocks or whatever on screen, instantly usable compared to the abstraction of a controller. It was easily the most engaging fitness I've done. It had its faults (proper spacing and lighting was critical), and now that you mention it I'd love to get into similar things in VR.
- thenomad 10y ago
  I used to use the Kinect for fitness in much the same way. I'm still upset that never really took off. The rafting game was particularly entertaining.
johnward 10y ago
> regularly skate with/against NHL bound Junior players, I've skated with guys that didn't make the NHL cut and they were extremely fast to me. All most no effort it seemed like. That's really shocking to me that you could get a workout from VR. Fog has to be an issue, no?
- jonknee 10y ago
  > I've skated with guys that didn't make the NHL cut and they were extremely fast to me. All most no effort it seemed like. All great athletes seem like they're barely exerting effort when in reality they are way above average peak performance. Just running back and forth on a football pitch for a whole game is something that would bring most of us to our knees.
- moron4hire 10y ago
  Fogging in the lenses is usually a sign the lenses are dirty. Usually, if I let them fog over and then clean them with a clean cloth, they don't fog over again. I do a very similar workout to the the person you replied to. Once I get the lenses cleaned, I can play Space Pirate Trainer without any problems.
- evo_9 10y ago
  Well the Vive/VR workout isn't my aerobic workout and/or what keeps me fast enough to play with those guys at age 49. I do a variation on the the Tabata Sprint workout, which is probably the toughest, most intense part of my workout outside of the pull-ups. Most people I know can't handle fully sprinting near exhausting repeatedly for 2m; the threat of vomiting alone from the workout stops most of my friends. So no, I don't mean to imply the VIVE workout is in anyway the main component of my aerobic fitness routine. The Vive, for me anyway, is more a overall body workout that strains muscles I don't seem to hit from hockey, snowboarding and/or other such activities I do regularly. I would say it's a) a great overall, full body workout, but not super aerobic, and b) extremely good at training for tracking/responding to multiple 'threats' from multiple angles. Or sharpening my focus, or indirect focus skills. For example I often de-focus my vision and think about the "Inner Game" and just get out of the way of my body; I often will hit two targets with each hand independently from each other spread out 20ft or so apart. I've noticed on the ice I'm picking up players on my side/other team earlier and it's giving me an edge in just being ready a second earlier with the puck.
moron4hire 10y ago
I agree completely. What's really interesting is, if you start to think of VR as exercise equipment, suddenly $800 for a headset and $1200 for a high-end gaming PC aren't that much money. You can easily spend twice that on a treadmill and a treadmill is a terrible workout. You could almost spend that on gym fees in a year and not ever show up, whereas the VR system in my home is fun and compelling: I do use it. And it's only going to get cheaper from here on out.
- thenomad 10y ago
  Oh, yeah, definitely. I'd actually compare the cost to the cost of hiring a personal trainer. Both solve two problems: exercising, and the motivation to exercise. Looked at in that light, the Vive's way cheaper.
sgrove 10y ago
> That is easily the most physically demanding VR activity that I've found so far Have you tried soundboxing? I'm on OSX so can't try it, but I really want to give it a shot - it seems awesome, and a good workout. Bringing back the glory days of DDR in the arcade... [0] - https://www.soundboxing.co/ https://www.soundboxing.co/
- evo_9 10y ago
  Oh nice, this looks like a nice tweak on the AudioShield formula - appreciate the rec!
  - thenomad 10y ago
    I've heard good things about Soundboxing too, but haven't tried it yet.
- ARama 10y ago
  I've played Soundboxing quite a lot, its a load of fun and you definitely get a solid work out. Its usually my go to game when I want some VR exercise. The leaderboard is a nice touch as well, makes me really try push myself because I want to be #1 on some of my favourite songs.
mwseibel 10y ago
I totally agree! The immersive experience not only makes you forget that you are working out but also makes you want to be better at moving around so you can perform better in the game.
- thenomad 10y ago
  Now just imagine how that'll play out when we have really good competitive VR games that are also cardio workouts - so you're aiming to out-fitness the millions of other players. The first DOTA or Counterstrike equivalent for VR that also rewards fitness with increased game ability will unleash a legion of very, very fit competitive gamers on the world. Bearing in mind - 7 hr a week is more or less the minimum to be at all competitive at DOTA, for example. 7 hr of intense exercise a week will get you pretty fit.
  - mwseibel 10y ago
    Damn - that is a great point!
  - 0xdada 10y ago
    It's more like 7 hours a day to be anywhere near competitive at DotA.
    - thenomad 10y ago
      By "competitive" in that context I meant "won't get stomped at 1.5k MMR". Which is still, frankly, a pretty high bar compared to most games. But yes. If you want to be actually competitive at a tournament level, you're dead on.
      - 0xdada 10y ago
        I see. Yeah, 7 hours of fitness a week on a casual level would do wonders for a lot of people, me included.
timdeneau 10y ago
I think fitness is going to be huge with VR gaming. We’re developing an FPS game, and are researching walking and jogging in place to drive character locomotion. The new Vive trackers are an exciting announcement, because that means we can have ankle tracking. In-game hands and feet.
- superplussed 10y ago
  Please consider moon physics! I haven't heard anyone talk about this but I've thought this was the answer to locomotion in VR. It strikes a balance between realistic movement and not being too tiring, and moon jumping would be hella fun, especially in a FPS.
  - ehsanu1 10y ago
    Ever played instagib with a low gravity mod in a regular FPS? It can be fun, but the gameplay becomes pretty limited, and I imagine the moon physics being similar in a VR FPS. Maybe projectile weapons only would make it work better, or the fact that hitscan is a lot harder in an HMD than with a monitor.
    - superplussed 10y ago
      I always thought that the mitigating factor here would be that you don't have to take big loping leaps, you can also accomplish a fairly earth-like gait, just with fewer steps. I could also see another way of using it that is similar to the teleport mechanic where you clear an area, make a big jump, and when you land you clear that next area before taking another jump. But it would be an interesting thing, almost like a angry birds pulling the slingshot back thing, where the accuracy of the jump is also put to the test.
    - paulryanrogers 10y ago
      > can be fun, but the gameplay becomes pretty limited If I recall correctly, low gravity often made me want to avoid jumping due to the lack of air control compared to ground running.
  - 10y ago
ktRolster 10y ago
How do you deal with sweat getting all over your device? Doesn't it start getting dirty quickly?
- jdietrich 10y ago
  Washable cotton covers are available for the Rift and Vive headsets. The controllers can be wiped clean like any other controller. https://vrcover.com/product/htc-vive-pre-vr-cover/ https://vrcover.com/product/htc-vive-pre-vr-cover/
- karpathy 10y ago
  Agreed with OP on HoloPoint and other apps (e.g. AudioShield is another favorite of mine) being a surprisingly intense workout. I sweat quite a bit with these games after ~15min, and this is definitely a problem. On Vive, the soft padding absorbs the sweat from my forehead as a sponge and becomes quite gross. I've learned to deal with the yucky feeling and can mostly ignore it, but I could see how others wouldn't.
- lfuller 10y ago
  I own an Oculus Rift and find that you only really get sweaty with very physically active games (AudioShield, Space Pirate Trainer, etc.). When it starts getting sweaty I'll usually just go do something else for a few minutes until it dries.
- Taek 10y ago
  The Vive at least has an removed gasket. You can get the waterproof ones, and have a few on hand when playing with a group. Overall it's pretty manageable if you are prepared but pretty gross if you are using it out of box
- maturz 10y ago
  One solution is to buy something called "3d sleep mask" costs $7 or so on Amazon but you can get them for less than $1 on Aliexpress with free shipping. Then you just cut out the middle part and the headband. They won't be quite as soft as the normal ones since they are thinner but the advantage of this is that it increases FOV since you are closer to the screen. In my experience they also stick quite well to the Vive. Example: https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4gezog/8_sleep_mask_mod_worked_better_than_expected_and/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4gezog/8_sleep_mask_m...
agumonkey 10y ago
Quite possibly education and elder care too. I'm not into gaming much (I find the magic of games pretty much gone for "moar" details, "moar" movement). But for health and also bootstrapping understanding your body, I'd contribute a lot to VR.
beatboxerdev 10y ago
You should try Beat Boxer. Its a rhythm based exercise game for the Vive and Oculus and will really get you sweating. http://store.steampowered.com/app/546650/ http://store.steampowered.com/app/546650/ Full disclaimer: I am one of the developers.
B1FF_PSUVM 10y ago
You should talk to a doctor about what your knee and elbow joints will be like in twenty years. (Supposing you care, and surgical replacement won't be trivial by then.)
fooey 10y ago
Maybe I'm just lazy, but VR games requiring physical exertion have absolutely zero appeal to me. I want to sit back with a keyboard and controller and relax. I include any kind of room scale in that assessment, and personally, just the idea of wearing a thing on your face and having to crane your neck around to see what's going on sounds like a PITA. I honestly and truly don't understand why people think VR is going to get any kind of mass market penetration.
- c0nfused 10y ago
  I thought the same thing until I tried it. Seriously, try it out the level of immersion is insane, a more classic game feel can be amazing. But something where you move around is incredibly compelling. I watched a friend try to lean on a counter while cooking in Job simulator. I have hit basically every wall in my living room with a controller at this point as well as all the lights. On the exercise front, Not every game is a workout but at the same time even something simple like the default valve bow game from the lab can wear people out. After all, you are holding a weight at arms length for a while and simulating pulling back an arrow. Its mot a motion that many people do regularly. Go borrow one or go to some local game meetup and try some's roomscale handset. Its amazing. I'm thinking about taking mine to the bar up the street on a weeknight hooking it up and getting everyone to try it.
  - mozumder 10y ago
    When I tried all I noticed was the pixelation and had to take it off. It was such a terrible user experience. It reminded me of some student science project, instead of a marketable product. VR isn't going to be popular until we have 8K or 16K headsets doing 120fps, and then we have to deal with the fact that it removes you from your environment. The first generation of VR died off because they couldn't figure out how to solve the product liability issues. That problem still exists, which is why VR isn't going to be usable and is a dead-end.
    - nojvek 10y ago
      I agree. I own a occipital bridge. The resolution needs to get 5x better than retina to be believable. Also 6dof tracking with hand gesture tracking under 10ms is still a challenge. I think it's possible but needs serious hardware advancements. I love my bridge though. No hanging cables is definitely a good thing
XorNot 10y ago
I have a DK2, and for sitting games like Elite Dangerous I'm very happy with it hence not buying a commercial version. But...man, this makes me want a Vive so badly. The only thing stopping me at the moment is I keep telling myself I'm hanging out for the next resolution bump (and the attendant massive HTPC I'll happily build to drive it).
deleted 10y ago
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newsat13 10y ago
> VR is going to be absolutely huge in the health/fitness space. Totally agree, I cannot see anything bigger. I feel it will be bigger than even the medicine and hospital business and even plaxo and glaxo and klein would be out of business (or who knows maybe they will start selling medicines in VR!) VR gaming is so intense and immerseful that I hope that I get a chance to go out. All this fitness would make me so slim.. that I hope my family can identify me.

by evo_9 10y ago

overcast 10y ago

Don't you get incredibly sweaty though? What is that experience like wearing a bulky mask thing? That's currently my biggest beef with these VR headsets, you have to wear some bulky thing on your head.

RangerScience 10y ago
Not OP, but familiar with this - I don't notice it much while I'm still in it, but if you take it off and on again, it's then like putting on a sweaty shirt - it's gotten cold and clammy, but warms up and you stop noticing pretty quick. You do need to remember to rinse the padding tho, just like a sponge in the sink. Super easy.
- overcast 10y ago
  I'll pass. Remind me when VR is a pair of glasses :)
  - Filligree 10y ago
    Have you watched Dennou Coil, by any chance? :O
- evo_9 10y ago
  Good point - on the Vive you can easily remove the face padding and rinse it off. They also sell replacements, I have a few so I rotate them in/out depending on which is driest etc.
  - Vraxx 10y ago
    I recall reading in most places that you are not supposed to get the HTC default foam pads wet and that it causes them to degrade quicker. Anecdotally, my wide face cushion has way less definition and is squishier than my narrow face cushion. This is definitely in part because the narrow one gets used less often, but I figured sweat was definitely a factor
    - nsxwolf 10y ago
      I've been totally immersing mine and drying it out so far without any problems. Can't be all that different than sweat itself. If we're not supposed to be getting these wet, then we shouldn't be doing VR workouts at all.
      - Vraxx 10y ago
        That has been my worry, but I figured I'd just buy new foam pads from HTC at worst. It does say not to get them wet in the manual. To alleviate this, I just purchased replacement pads that were machine washable from a 3rd party supplier.
evo_9 10y ago
I do but I don't mind it. I wear a thin head-cap and bought the 'VRCover' which helps absorb the sweet (but is unfortunately made of cotton for some reason). My setup is in the basement too and so it's typically pretty chilly down there so it's probably not quite as bad as it could be. I do have to take the headgear off every few games, towel off head/forehead, and clean up the lens.
- Vraxx 10y ago
  Which VRCover did you buy specifically for sweat? I bought the memory foam soft cotton one (it's supposed to come in tomorrow" because I wanted to to be washable, but also comfortable in other scenarios, though I very much have the same experience as you described and I'd like to make exercising with VR games a much bigger part of my routine. Edit: I'm mostly curious about the "leather" ones as they sounded uncomfortable for other usage, but specifically aimed at physical exertion.
  - evo_9 10y ago
    I bought this one but I'm not totally happy with it. For now it does the job but I'm sure better options will come out at some point hopefully sooner than later: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LZZ3M8B/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1 https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01LZZ3M8B/ref=oh_aui_deta...
    - Vraxx 10y ago
      Ohhh, I actually bought one of the replacement foams. Here were the two I was considering, I bought the first of the two I linked and will be getting it tomorrow. https://vrcover.com/product/htc-vive-memory-foam-padding-cotton-18mm/ https://vrcover.com/product/htc-vive-memory-foam-padding-cot... https://vrcover.com/product/htc-vive-memory-foam-padding-cotton-18mm/ https://vrcover.com/product/htc-vive-memory-foam-padding-cot...
  - vanattab 10y ago
    I am looking for a cover that does not soak up the sweat? I like to take the vr to family parties with dozens of people trying the device and the nasty factor can be really if used heavily. I am looking for something that can be wiped with alcohol between uses.
vanattab 10y ago
Depending on how active the game is and how much you sweat it can be bad. I am certain that one of the first improvements in future devices will be better ventilation without leaking light.
frandroid 10y ago
I haven't done any workout in a VR headset yet but I have cried in one, and the lens got fogged up. Clearly some sort of passive or active ventilation will have to be part of VR headsets.
- chromaton 10y ago
  >I have cried in one What's the story with that, if you don't mind?
  - frandroid 10y ago
    I visited The Library at Night, a part-VR exhibit by Robert Lepage in Québec City: https://www.mcq.org/en/exposition?id=425961 https://www.mcq.org/en/exposition?id=425961 Alberto Manguel narrates the history of 10 of his favourite libraries. One of them, the Vijećnica library in Sarajevo, had a particularly striking history from the civil war: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vije%C4%87nica https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vije%C4%87nica That got to me.

ska 10y ago

That's an interesting observation - most of the caveats about VR (poor UX/interactions, consumer hardware at least a few generations away from a good v1.0) probably don't really impact this space much as the focus is on other things. People are already demonstrably willing to put on somewhat clunky gear for an hour or two for a workout.

mwseibel 10y ago
lol - great point - a squat rack is a pretty bulky piece of equipment too!

RangerScience 10y ago

+1 Holopoint! It feels like dancing.

drewrv 10y ago

Have you tried Holoball or Audioshield? Those are my go-to games when I'm looking for some exercise.

evo_9 10y ago
I use to use Audioshield for the workout but I find Space Pirate and Holopoint to be more intense. I haven't seen Holoball, sounds awesome thanks!
- Greenisus 10y ago
  Holoball is my current favorite, but I have to try these others tonight

dchuk 10y ago

So do you just have some huge empty room/garage in your house then? Are you ever afraid of smashing into stuff around you that you can't see because of the goggles?

evo_9 10y ago
I have half my basement setup for hockey specific workout stuff, I call it 'Hockey Heaven', and repurposed part of the area for VR use too. You can see pictures of it on my old blog below (which I'm in the process of relaunching as a VR specific site in the next month or so). https://existentialquandary.wordpress.com/hockey-heaven/ https://existentialquandary.wordpress.com/hockey-heaven/ This is before I setup the VIVE so basically I hung the sensors around the 'blue line area' and put all my computer gear on the desk in the corner.
- cgh 10y ago
  Your hockey setup is fantastic, nice work. And that is some sick stick handling. Watch the pullups. I fried my elbows by doing too many. Doing them on rings is much better (if you don't do them that way already, I don't know). Interesting that you are taking PQQ. I've been meaning to research this stuff. I also noticed no creatine was listed. It probably belongs in your anti-aging stack as it has neuroprotective properties, along with its other well-established effects on muscle power output.
- markdog12 10y ago
  Pretty damn jealous over here. More for the hockey than the VR. Sweet setup. What's the floor made of?
thenomad 10y ago
The Vive chaperone tech is really good. I've been developing with my living room as my VR space for months now - as well as getting other people in to playtest a physically intense, scare-heavy game requiring fast movement - and to date we've only had one even moderately close call with a controller nearly whacking my TV. And that was my fault for setting the chaperone bounds a bit optimistically.

brilliantcode 10y ago

How do you deal with neck muscle strain from the weight of the device which also gets soaked in sweat? I think it's great that you've been able to exercise but for me those two points are still a big area of potential innovation.

corysama 10y ago
If sweat becomes a persistent issue, products like https://vrcover.com/ https://vrcover.com/ will become standard.

thenomad 10y ago

Additional workout suggestion: try Thrill Of The Fight ( http://store.steampowered.com/app/494150/ http://store.steampowered.com/app/494150/ ). It's the most physically intense experience I've had in VR so far - I'd say even more intense than Holopoint, although the two are close. Obviously you will have to enjoy boxing for it to be much use or fun, mind! You might also enjoy Climbey (http://store.steampowered.com/app/520010/ http://store.steampowered.com/app/520010/ ) - it doesn't look particularly physical at first but it uses a decent amount of slow muscle movement. I was surprised at how sore I was the morning after a long play session with it. (Oh, and given you love Dark Souls - you have heard of Left-Hand Path ( http://store.steampowered.com/app/488760 http://store.steampowered.com/app/488760 ), which keeps getting described by users as "Dark Souls VR", right? If not, I seriously need to work on my marketing. It's also at least somewhat physical, particularly if you decide to use the dodging mechanics a lot. Full disclosure: I'm the developer of that one.)

evo_9 10y ago
I have played Left Hand Path a lot, very intense esp. the boss fight. I can't seem to complete the ruin sequence to get past the end of level one so I put that one on hold until it gets patched, I'm pretty sure I am doing the ruin sequence right... but yeah great Dark-Souls like experience in VR. Can't wait to see what From does in VR. Climbly is good too but it's tough because you still have to move around with their locomotion technique and I find it quite vomit-y unfortunately the way it currently works. Thrill of the Fight is on my list to check out this weekend... new release, looks great :)
- thenomad 10y ago
  Oh, sorry to hear that! The end of that level does seem to stump people - I'm working on making it much more accessible. If you'd like to either email me (email in my HN profile), reply here, or put up a post on the Steam forums (http://steamcommunity.com/app/488760/discussions/0/ http://steamcommunity.com/app/488760/discussions/0/) I'd be more than happy to help you past that, as there's lots of good stuff beyond! Climbey - yeah, the locomotion does get a little nausea-inducing :( I'm bulletproofed to it after months of VR development!

mysterydip 10y ago

That's a great point that I haven't considered before. Back on the PS2 there was an "eyetoy" camera addon that allowed you to interact with certain games. "Eyetoy: kinetic" was a favorite of mine and my nieces/nephews: they could punch and kick and get rid of enemies or blocks or whatever on screen, instantly usable compared to the abstraction of a controller. It was easily the most engaging fitness I've done. It had its faults (proper spacing and lighting was critical), and now that you mention it I'd love to get into similar things in VR.

thenomad 10y ago
I used to use the Kinect for fitness in much the same way. I'm still upset that never really took off. The rafting game was particularly entertaining.

johnward 10y ago

> regularly skate with/against NHL bound Junior players, I've skated with guys that didn't make the NHL cut and they were extremely fast to me. All most no effort it seemed like. That's really shocking to me that you could get a workout from VR. Fog has to be an issue, no?

jonknee 10y ago
> I've skated with guys that didn't make the NHL cut and they were extremely fast to me. All most no effort it seemed like. All great athletes seem like they're barely exerting effort when in reality they are way above average peak performance. Just running back and forth on a football pitch for a whole game is something that would bring most of us to our knees.
moron4hire 10y ago
Fogging in the lenses is usually a sign the lenses are dirty. Usually, if I let them fog over and then clean them with a clean cloth, they don't fog over again. I do a very similar workout to the the person you replied to. Once I get the lenses cleaned, I can play Space Pirate Trainer without any problems.
evo_9 10y ago
Well the Vive/VR workout isn't my aerobic workout and/or what keeps me fast enough to play with those guys at age 49. I do a variation on the the Tabata Sprint workout, which is probably the toughest, most intense part of my workout outside of the pull-ups. Most people I know can't handle fully sprinting near exhausting repeatedly for 2m; the threat of vomiting alone from the workout stops most of my friends. So no, I don't mean to imply the VIVE workout is in anyway the main component of my aerobic fitness routine. The Vive, for me anyway, is more a overall body workout that strains muscles I don't seem to hit from hockey, snowboarding and/or other such activities I do regularly. I would say it's a) a great overall, full body workout, but not super aerobic, and b) extremely good at training for tracking/responding to multiple 'threats' from multiple angles. Or sharpening my focus, or indirect focus skills. For example I often de-focus my vision and think about the "Inner Game" and just get out of the way of my body; I often will hit two targets with each hand independently from each other spread out 20ft or so apart. I've noticed on the ice I'm picking up players on my side/other team earlier and it's giving me an edge in just being ready a second earlier with the puck.

moron4hire 10y ago

I agree completely. What's really interesting is, if you start to think of VR as exercise equipment, suddenly $800 for a headset and $1200 for a high-end gaming PC aren't that much money. You can easily spend twice that on a treadmill and a treadmill is a terrible workout. You could almost spend that on gym fees in a year and not ever show up, whereas the VR system in my home is fun and compelling: I do use it. And it's only going to get cheaper from here on out.

thenomad 10y ago
Oh, yeah, definitely. I'd actually compare the cost to the cost of hiring a personal trainer. Both solve two problems: exercising, and the motivation to exercise. Looked at in that light, the Vive's way cheaper.

sgrove 10y ago

> That is easily the most physically demanding VR activity that I've found so far Have you tried soundboxing? I'm on OSX so can't try it, but I really want to give it a shot - it seems awesome, and a good workout. Bringing back the glory days of DDR in the arcade... [0] - https://www.soundboxing.co/ https://www.soundboxing.co/

evo_9 10y ago
Oh nice, this looks like a nice tweak on the AudioShield formula - appreciate the rec!
- thenomad 10y ago
  I've heard good things about Soundboxing too, but haven't tried it yet.
ARama 10y ago
I've played Soundboxing quite a lot, its a load of fun and you definitely get a solid work out. Its usually my go to game when I want some VR exercise. The leaderboard is a nice touch as well, makes me really try push myself because I want to be #1 on some of my favourite songs.

mwseibel 10y ago

I totally agree! The immersive experience not only makes you forget that you are working out but also makes you want to be better at moving around so you can perform better in the game.

thenomad 10y ago
Now just imagine how that'll play out when we have really good competitive VR games that are also cardio workouts - so you're aiming to out-fitness the millions of other players. The first DOTA or Counterstrike equivalent for VR that also rewards fitness with increased game ability will unleash a legion of very, very fit competitive gamers on the world. Bearing in mind - 7 hr a week is more or less the minimum to be at all competitive at DOTA, for example. 7 hr of intense exercise a week will get you pretty fit.
- mwseibel 10y ago
  Damn - that is a great point!
- 0xdada 10y ago
  It's more like 7 hours a day to be anywhere near competitive at DotA.
  - thenomad 10y ago
    By "competitive" in that context I meant "won't get stomped at 1.5k MMR". Which is still, frankly, a pretty high bar compared to most games. But yes. If you want to be actually competitive at a tournament level, you're dead on.
    - 0xdada 10y ago
      I see. Yeah, 7 hours of fitness a week on a casual level would do wonders for a lot of people, me included.

timdeneau 10y ago

I think fitness is going to be huge with VR gaming. We’re developing an FPS game, and are researching walking and jogging in place to drive character locomotion. The new Vive trackers are an exciting announcement, because that means we can have ankle tracking. In-game hands and feet.

superplussed 10y ago
Please consider moon physics! I haven't heard anyone talk about this but I've thought this was the answer to locomotion in VR. It strikes a balance between realistic movement and not being too tiring, and moon jumping would be hella fun, especially in a FPS.
- ehsanu1 10y ago
  Ever played instagib with a low gravity mod in a regular FPS? It can be fun, but the gameplay becomes pretty limited, and I imagine the moon physics being similar in a VR FPS. Maybe projectile weapons only would make it work better, or the fact that hitscan is a lot harder in an HMD than with a monitor.
  - superplussed 10y ago
    I always thought that the mitigating factor here would be that you don't have to take big loping leaps, you can also accomplish a fairly earth-like gait, just with fewer steps. I could also see another way of using it that is similar to the teleport mechanic where you clear an area, make a big jump, and when you land you clear that next area before taking another jump. But it would be an interesting thing, almost like a angry birds pulling the slingshot back thing, where the accuracy of the jump is also put to the test.
  - paulryanrogers 10y ago
    > can be fun, but the gameplay becomes pretty limited If I recall correctly, low gravity often made me want to avoid jumping due to the lack of air control compared to ground running.
- 10y ago

ktRolster 10y ago

How do you deal with sweat getting all over your device? Doesn't it start getting dirty quickly?

jdietrich 10y ago
Washable cotton covers are available for the Rift and Vive headsets. The controllers can be wiped clean like any other controller. https://vrcover.com/product/htc-vive-pre-vr-cover/ https://vrcover.com/product/htc-vive-pre-vr-cover/
karpathy 10y ago
Agreed with OP on HoloPoint and other apps (e.g. AudioShield is another favorite of mine) being a surprisingly intense workout. I sweat quite a bit with these games after ~15min, and this is definitely a problem. On Vive, the soft padding absorbs the sweat from my forehead as a sponge and becomes quite gross. I've learned to deal with the yucky feeling and can mostly ignore it, but I could see how others wouldn't.
lfuller 10y ago
I own an Oculus Rift and find that you only really get sweaty with very physically active games (AudioShield, Space Pirate Trainer, etc.). When it starts getting sweaty I'll usually just go do something else for a few minutes until it dries.
Taek 10y ago
The Vive at least has an removed gasket. You can get the waterproof ones, and have a few on hand when playing with a group. Overall it's pretty manageable if you are prepared but pretty gross if you are using it out of box
maturz 10y ago
One solution is to buy something called "3d sleep mask" costs $7 or so on Amazon but you can get them for less than $1 on Aliexpress with free shipping. Then you just cut out the middle part and the headband. They won't be quite as soft as the normal ones since they are thinner but the advantage of this is that it increases FOV since you are closer to the screen. In my experience they also stick quite well to the Vive. Example: https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4gezog/8_sleep_mask_mod_worked_better_than_expected_and/ https://www.reddit.com/r/Vive/comments/4gezog/8_sleep_mask_m...

agumonkey 10y ago

Quite possibly education and elder care too. I'm not into gaming much (I find the magic of games pretty much gone for "moar" details, "moar" movement). But for health and also bootstrapping understanding your body, I'd contribute a lot to VR.

beatboxerdev 10y ago

You should try Beat Boxer. Its a rhythm based exercise game for the Vive and Oculus and will really get you sweating. http://store.steampowered.com/app/546650/ http://store.steampowered.com/app/546650/ Full disclaimer: I am one of the developers.

B1FF_PSUVM 10y ago

You should talk to a doctor about what your knee and elbow joints will be like in twenty years. (Supposing you care, and surgical replacement won't be trivial by then.)

fooey 10y ago

Maybe I'm just lazy, but VR games requiring physical exertion have absolutely zero appeal to me. I want to sit back with a keyboard and controller and relax. I include any kind of room scale in that assessment, and personally, just the idea of wearing a thing on your face and having to crane your neck around to see what's going on sounds like a PITA. I honestly and truly don't understand why people think VR is going to get any kind of mass market penetration.

c0nfused 10y ago
I thought the same thing until I tried it. Seriously, try it out the level of immersion is insane, a more classic game feel can be amazing. But something where you move around is incredibly compelling. I watched a friend try to lean on a counter while cooking in Job simulator. I have hit basically every wall in my living room with a controller at this point as well as all the lights. On the exercise front, Not every game is a workout but at the same time even something simple like the default valve bow game from the lab can wear people out. After all, you are holding a weight at arms length for a while and simulating pulling back an arrow. Its mot a motion that many people do regularly. Go borrow one or go to some local game meetup and try some's roomscale handset. Its amazing. I'm thinking about taking mine to the bar up the street on a weeknight hooking it up and getting everyone to try it.
- mozumder 10y ago
  When I tried all I noticed was the pixelation and had to take it off. It was such a terrible user experience. It reminded me of some student science project, instead of a marketable product. VR isn't going to be popular until we have 8K or 16K headsets doing 120fps, and then we have to deal with the fact that it removes you from your environment. The first generation of VR died off because they couldn't figure out how to solve the product liability issues. That problem still exists, which is why VR isn't going to be usable and is a dead-end.
  - nojvek 10y ago
    I agree. I own a occipital bridge. The resolution needs to get 5x better than retina to be believable. Also 6dof tracking with hand gesture tracking under 10ms is still a challenge. I think it's possible but needs serious hardware advancements. I love my bridge though. No hanging cables is definitely a good thing

XorNot 10y ago

I have a DK2, and for sitting games like Elite Dangerous I'm very happy with it hence not buying a commercial version. But...man, this makes me want a Vive so badly. The only thing stopping me at the moment is I keep telling myself I'm hanging out for the next resolution bump (and the attendant massive HTPC I'll happily build to drive it).

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newsat13 10y ago

> VR is going to be absolutely huge in the health/fitness space. Totally agree, I cannot see anything bigger. I feel it will be bigger than even the medicine and hospital business and even plaxo and glaxo and klein would be out of business (or who knows maybe they will start selling medicines in VR!) VR gaming is so intense and immerseful that I hope that I get a chance to go out. All this fitness would make me so slim.. that I hope my family can identify me.