11 ms·
StumpWM 1.0 Released
- josteink 10y ago> StumpWM is a tiling, keyboard driven X11 Window Manager written entirely in Common Lisp. Just in time for Fedora making Wayland the new default :) Seriously though. Someone please make a good, working Wayland tiling WM. Wayland is just super nice compared to X11 for enough tasks to justify using it.
- stutonk 10y agoYou should have a look at Sway. It's a Wayland i3-alike with a few extra features. It even plays nicely with X11 only applications via X-Wayland. http://swaywm.org/ http://swaywm.org/
- josteink 10y agoLast time I tried it, I found it somewhat lacking in the copy/paste department. Iirc copying between Wayland and X11/xwayland apps didn't work. Any news on improvements in that area?
- Sir_Cmpwn 10y agoThere's a bounty for that feature: https://github.com/SirCmpwn/sway/issues/986 https://github.com/SirCmpwn/sway/issues/986 Why don't you work on it?
- hashkb 10y agoIs that a real suggestion or meant to be ironic?
- Sir_Cmpwn 10y agoA real suggestion. Why would it be ironic? It's open source and easy to contribute to.
- josteink 10y agoWith all due respect: I don't have time. I just asked because this was an issue last time I tried sway, and I was curious about improvements since then. It was not meant to razz on your wm :) As a maintainer and contributor to several projects I already use (and thus see the return on) I already see myself too short on resources to follow up everything I'd like to. Trying to fix shortcomings in projects which (for me) are not yet production ready just doesn't make it onto my TODO list. I hope someone does help you fix this though. Really. No harm meant. Hope it didn't come off that way.
- Sir_Cmpwn 10y agoI didn't take any offense. I'm just suggesting you try implementing the feature. It isn't going to be done on your schedule unless you do it.
- hackmiester 10y agoI like the feeling behind this sentiment, but I figure that poster just wants a computer where they can copy and paste. So: if there isn't a WM for Wayland that allows their workflow, then they will stick with X.
- Sir_Cmpwn 10y agoThat's fine, sticking with X is a totally acceptable option. If they _want_ to move to Wayland, though, and it's missing something they need, then of course they should help work on that thing.
- josteink 10y agoHonest (naive?) question: Given that these issues has persisted for so long and that they seem solved in Gnome and KDE... Not accusing you of full NIH, but are there any technical reasons for not just reusing/leveraging kwin or whatever Gnome uses, instead of creating your own compositor library where all these issues has to be solved, yet again?
- mathw 10y agoI've been using Wayland on Fedora 25 GNOME sessions for a few weeks now. I've not noticed any hiccups on copy/paste and I've definitely been doing it across Wayland-native and XWayland applications. But maybe GNOME's compositor is handling that.
- josteink 10y agoYeah. That's gnome's compositor. Sway uses another one, which was why I asked.
- sevensor 10y agoSway works great as long as you have a system that can handle Wayland. I've been having terrible luck with NVidia hardware lately -- proprietary drivers are known not to support Wayland, and Wayland / Nouveau has been unstable with the hardware I use. But AMD and Intel systems are rock solid, and I've switched over to sway there.
- peatmoss 10y ago> Wayland is just super nice compared to X11 for enough tasks to justify using it. I'd like to hear what makes it better for you in terms of day-to-day experience. I can look at feature lists, but those often don't give a good picture of the reality that people experience. Given your enthusiasm for Wayland, I'd like to hear it!
- josteink 10y agoFirst and foremost it feels better. Wayland is smoother, does not have graphical glitches and everything performs consistently. Take this (slightly contrived) example: In Gnome 3 you can "zoom" out to panarama view all your running applications, while you have a HTML5 video running in your browser and everything just runs flawlessly, with almost no system-load, and no tearing or any nonsense. All this while you zoom in and out on whatever app or desktop or workspace you want to focus on. A less contrived example: Vertically scrolling a document in your browser or whatever should never ever tear. Ever. On X11 it often does. On Wayland it doesn't. My best simple comparison would be iOS vs Android. There's something about that extra little bit of responsiveness on iOS, that jerkyness you immediately notice on Android when you've gotten used to consistently smooth 60fps interfaces... That difference is something you feel. After using Wayland for a while, you'll notice that feeling yourself on your desktop too.
- jlarocco 10y agoSounds like your graphics card isn't configured correctly, maybe? I use X11 (StumpWM, actually) on three computers with different graphics cards and system configurations, and I don't have jerkyness, tearing while scrolling, or graphical glitches on any of them.
- josteink 10y agoI'm using factory config on well supported Intel GPUs. I can see the difference pretty clearly. Especially when dragging a full-screen window playing youtube or whatever. This works fine with Wayland. With X11 I get tearing. I'm pretty sure this is what everyone else is complaining about too.
- deleted 10y ago[deleted]
- ronjouch 10y agoI want to use Wayland, but it breaks a few tools I use (Autokey [0], marathon [1]) as they depend on X-specific tooling/APIs (for marathon: wmctrl, xdotool). So I'm disabling Wayland for now even though I'd like to use it (for starters, simply to roll with GNOME's boat, since Wayland is the default on Arch). --> Are there Wayland equivalents to wmctrl and xdotool? Any plans for them? If no, does Wayland provide a complete-enough API to write similar tools for Wayland? [0] https://github.com/autokey-py3/autokey https://github.com/autokey-py3/autokey [1] https://github.com/ronjouch/marathon https://github.com/ronjouch/marathon
- erelde 10y agoWayland isn't the default on Arch, it has no default by default.
- ronjouch 10y agoRight, let me reformulate: Wayland is what you get by default on Arch when you go with the gnome/gdm stack. https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/GDM#Use_Xorg_backend https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/GDM#Use_Xorg_backend
- jabl 10y ago> Seriously though. Someone please make a good, working Wayland tiling WM. There's https://github.com/Immington-Industries/way-cooler https://github.com/Immington-Industries/way-cooler It's alpha, but gets extra HN brownie points for being written in Rust.
- timthelion 10y agoDo you really need the word `but` in "It's alpha, but"? I thought on HN, being alpha got you extra brownie points.
- jabl 10y agoFine, lets replace 'but' with 'and', so it gets double HN brownie points. :)
- IgorPartola 10y agoIs Wayland actually that much nicer than X11? Like, I know the architecture and code and nicer, but as the end user, do you actually experience anything different?
- driusan 10y agoThis looks incredibly similar to a WM I'm writing.. except mine is written in Go using literate programming, as an excuse to try to do something substantial with LP. In the last screenshot, what's the header at the top of the screen? Is that from the WM or the program running inside of it just drawing at the top of the screen? (It's too low resolution to tell..) And is stumpwm autotiled or manually tiled?
- Avshalom 10y agothat's probably https://stumpwm.github.io/git/stumpwm-git_7.html#Mode_002dline https://stumpwm.github.io/git/stumpwm-git_7.html#Mode_002dli...
- driusan 10y agoThanks! I wasn't sure since it says that there's no window decorations.
- yellowapple 10y agoStumpWM is manually tiled, ish. It's based around splitting panes into smaller panes (rather than the fully-manual approach used by, say, subtlewm), but it's separate from the process of opening a program, so by default new windows will stack on top of one another until you split and/or move them yourself.
- znpy 10y agoI've been using stumpwm for quite a while, and in my opinion, the best possible setup is stumpwm as a repalcement for the xfce4 window manager (xfwm4). This way you get a nice winwdowing environment but still have tiling wm.
- k__ 10y agon00b question, what are the benefits of tiling window managers? I never used them and always have my windows maximized when working.
- vansande 10y agoYour windows will never overlap. If you always have your windows maximized, then you can definitively benefit from a tiling window manager since it will always open new windows maximized. I also have my windows maximized and have each window assigned to a different workspace. Switching is as easy as pressing alt + 1, alt + 2, etc ... (in i3wm)
- talideon 10y agoThey actually manage your windows. The tiling part of it isn't the important bit: what's important is that they keep your windows placed in a useful manner for the task you're performing, tiling in various ways being one of the ways in which they achieve that. Normal window managers are akin to a desk where everything is tossed around, whereas tiling window managers are like desks that automatically organise whatever is on them.
- oblio 10y agoThere's many non-tiling WMs that actually manage the windows for you: http://fvwm.org/documentation/faq/#when-my-specific-window-or-all-windows-pops-up-i-want-it-to-get-focusbe-movedbe-resizedbe-closedbe-shaded--how http://fvwm.org/documentation/faq/#when-my-specific-window-o... http://openbox.org/wiki/Help:Applications http://openbox.org/wiki/Help:Applications
- girzel 10y agoI used this for a few years, and loved it -- it's my favorite of all the tiling window managers I've tried, for conceptual simplicity, extensibility, and ease of use. It was dog-slow, though, and often couldn't keep up with my commands. I switched to i3 (and sway when I'm feeling adventurous) and have enjoyed that. Making window splits still isn't as brain-dead simple as it was in StumpWM, though. Maybe I'll try the new release and see if it goes any faster.
- geoka9 10y agoHave you tried ratpoison? Same author, but in C, so it's fast.
- yellowapple 10y agoOne consideration might be which Lisp you're using. SBCL is known for its speed compared to other CL implementations, for example, so using it (especially now that it's the one recommended Lisp to use with StumpWM) might help considerably. I personally don't notice any significant performance issues, even on old single-core 32-bit hardware.
- girzel 10y agoI was using SBCL! Here's an old mailing list thread about it. It often took StumpWM a second or two to notice that I'd typed the prefix key. https://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/stumpwm-devel/2014-03/msg00043.html https://lists.nongnu.org/archive/html/stumpwm-devel/2014-03/...
- lokedhs 10y agoWhile I have no idea what caused your problems at the time, I can assure you that it's nothing like that today. There is zero delay anywhere in it, and it's as fast it can be (in other words, I don't know of anything in it that, if made faster, would even be noticeable)
- yellowapple 10y agoCome to think of it, I recall some performance issues that supposedly existed if SBCL was compiled with threading support. It's since been resolved, though, as far as I can tell.
- cygned 10y agoIt's actually nice to open a repository of an application with a complexity like that one and just see a few files, no crazy folder structures, no insane build scripts or similar.
- yellowapple 10y agoI've found that to be true in general for Common Lisp projects. With StumpWM, it's nice in terms of finding where certain functionality is implemented so I can rework it in my ~/.stumpwmrc. Having easily-accessible source code was invaluable for me adding gaps between tiled windows (and has helped me get 90% of the way done with adding a second modeline to hold WindowMaker-style dockapps).
- ne01 10y agoStumpWM is so awesome! And I'm really happy to see this release!!! I love StumpWM because it does not force a workflow on me! I have configured it to work the way I want it to! And as far as I know I cannot have this workflow in any other tiling window manager! If I want to open firefox I press `F9` and then `f`. Let's start a terminal window... `F9` `t` Let's open emacs... `F9` `e` Now I want to go back to firefox... `F9` `f` Press `F8` if you want to switch between last 2 windows (emacs & firefox)... F8 ... and I'm back at my emacs window... Neat ha? Oh, and I forgot to mention that everything is in full screen! 29" of real estate for every app! No tiling or stacking windows. There are no numbers, tags or anything to remember. Too bad this will never work on a mac... everything starts with an i... just kidding! :) If you are interested in my stumpwmrc file: https://github.com/seyedip/my-stumpwmrc https://github.com/seyedip/my-stumpwmrc
- mixedCase 10y ago>I cannot have this workflow in any other tiling window manager! I could easily replicate this in bspwm+sxhkd with a small script.
- mateuszf 10y agoEasily done in ion3
- jethro_tell 10y agoEasily implemented in AwesomeWM Edit: Actually, most all of this could be implemented in X11 keybindings outside of your window manager. Just the full screen part that the WM is needed for. And that can be implemented in any WM and probably most DE
- agumonkey 10y agoSo much UI logic is "opaque" in a way. There's a documentation void about the usual structure of GUIs in open source.
- FrancoDiaz 10y agoI wonder if you could configure StumpWM to use vim-like leaders? http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1764263/what-is-the-leader-in-a-vimrc-file http://stackoverflow.com/questions/1764263/what-is-the-leade... I'd love to be able to "right-windows o f" right windows is the leader key, o would be open, and f is for firefox. "right-windows o c" to open chrome
- lokedhs 10y agoPreviously posted: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13385264 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13385264