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This kind of design is WAY more likely to come from a PC vendor than Apple. The 16 TB ports was definitely kind of a LOL moment. I dig it. They are useful, but

This kind of design is WAY more likely to come from a PC vendor than Apple. The 16 TB ports was definitely kind of a LOL moment. I dig it. They are useful, but that can't be done with "standard components". The whole idea of a flexible and upgradeable PC is kind of against the Apple "tightly coupled" software and hardware story. The reason that their user experience has historically (I haven't used a mac in about a decade) been so good was because they limit the available hardware for their testing purposes. They don't have a lot of choice in hardware, but what they do support works every time. I don't know...I got off the Apple train a long time ago. I loved my Mac Pro, but it just wasn't for me.

MrBuddyCasino 10y ago
I agree its very un-Apple-esque in concept. Its also got too much of an Alienware vibe, design wise.
- ChrisLTD 10y ago
  How so? It's an elongated version the trash can Mac Pro design.
  - remarkEon 10y ago
    The 3rd and 4th pictures, with the center panel removed...the angles are reminiscent of Alienware with the prominent angles.
    - ChrisLTD 10y ago
      Have a look at the 8th slide "Thermal Core" on the official Mac Pro page: http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/ http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/
  - deleted 10y ago
    [deleted]
imtringued 10y ago
16 TB ports is probably because they are also USB C ports and figuring out which ports support TB and which don't may become a hassle.
- wlesieutre 10y ago
  Does any processor actually support enough PCIe lanes to do 16 TB ports?
  - jsheard 10y ago
    16 TB3 ports would require 64 PCIe 3.0 lanes, and Intel's biggest Xeons only have 40 lanes for the entire system.
    - simcop2387 10y ago
      The chipset can add more also, but they will have higher latency. It's common on lower end systems where the CPU only has 16 or so. Those'll go to the graphics card slot (the only 16x on the small board) and all other peripherals will come off the chipset's PCIe lanes.
      - jsheard 10y ago
        That's true, but the C612/X99 chipsets that pair with Broadwell-EP CPUs only provide an extra 8 PCIe 2.0 lanes. It's still nowhere near enough bandwidth to do what this concept wants to do.
        simcop2387 10y ago
        Definitely. They'd have to develop something entirely new to do it, which I bet would cost more than just doing a quad socketed system to get all the lanes.
  - virtuallynathan 10y ago
    You would need a dual CPU system. Skylake Xeons have 48x PCIe. 16x TB3 = 64x PCIe Lanes 2x GPU = 32x PCIe Lanes 2x M.2 = 8x PCIe Lanes Chipset = 8x PCIe Lanes Would be too much for even 2x Skylake Xeons. Maybe 10-12x TB3 ports.
hedora 10y ago
The PC ecosystem shipped something similar years ago (with different aesthetic choices). Combine a silverstone ft03 with a noctua d14 dual tower cooler, and you get a similar convection cooling design. Pics: http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/67015-noctua-nh-d15-cpu-cooler-review.html http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-review... http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1190-page4.html http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1190-page4.html The main problem is that tool-less cases were in style back then. If you pick it up in the obvious way, you'll end up with two side panels in your hands and a broken heap of computer on the ground. Other than that, it is a totally solid and very quiet case for high tdp systems.
- random28345 10y ago
  Actually, the main problem is that you can't put 2x full length video cards in it. Cooling a mini-itx board with a 14mm processor with <90W TDP is not a unsolved problem. But the standard ATX motherboard layout assumes most of the head will be generated by the processor, and that's simply not true today. A dual GPU setup for gaming or ML might generate 5 to 10 times the heat generated by the processor, and there's literally a couple centimeters for airflow between the two cards. When I see an innovative design that maximizes airflow across the GPU(s), preferably one that involves removing the stock "windtunnel" cooler and replacing it with massive "tower" passive radiators and 3x 120mm temperature controlled case fans blowing cool air across them, then I'll be impressed. (note that this would require either a new motherboard design or using pci ribbon extenders)
  - seanp2k2 10y ago
    Yeah, I was thinking PCI-E extenders or daughter boards too. You could also use MXMs, possibly doing 4-way SLI or something crazy: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_PCI_Express_Module https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_PCI_Express_Module But then you're back to the same problem of needing custom coolers which work with the modules AND the case, where we've seen Apple never release an upgrade part since launch.
  - hedora 10y ago
    Actually, that case fits two full length cards, or at least full-length the year it was built. The power supply is on the bottom, on the "CPU side" of the motherboard (the motherboard ports stick out the top), so you get the full motherboard length, plus the power supply height, plus a bit extra. It leads to a pretty dense, but well laid out install. There is a diagonally mounted 120mm fan that does nothing and has to be removed, if I remember right. Crucially, convection (with help from fans) means the cards are pulling cooler air than in normal cases (at least in theory -- in practice, it is very quiet with one GPU). I can't recommend it due to the lack of screws / latches on the side panels, but the general layout and airflow is great, and could easily be adapted for a different model with support for longer cards or even three way GPUs. Current generation AMD cards have stock water coolers that are similar to what you asked for, but apparently third party air coolers are cooler/quieter. (I don't remember if the case I linked has water cooler mounts. I doubt it.)
Shivetya 10y ago
I am quite sure that apple's is more constrained by appearances than the coupling of hardware and software. the mac pro design while very unique is so constraining that they may have simply painted themselves into a corner and had no graceful out. if they had kept the previous incarnation then updates could have proceeded yearly or even once every two years. I do agree this proposal lacks a lot, it certainly has no Apple vibe to it

MrBuddyCasino 10y ago

I agree its very un-Apple-esque in concept. Its also got too much of an Alienware vibe, design wise.

ChrisLTD 10y ago
How so? It's an elongated version the trash can Mac Pro design.
- remarkEon 10y ago
  The 3rd and 4th pictures, with the center panel removed...the angles are reminiscent of Alienware with the prominent angles.
  - ChrisLTD 10y ago
    Have a look at the 8th slide "Thermal Core" on the official Mac Pro page: http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/ http://www.apple.com/mac-pro/
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]

imtringued 10y ago

16 TB ports is probably because they are also USB C ports and figuring out which ports support TB and which don't may become a hassle.

wlesieutre 10y ago
Does any processor actually support enough PCIe lanes to do 16 TB ports?
- jsheard 10y ago
  16 TB3 ports would require 64 PCIe 3.0 lanes, and Intel's biggest Xeons only have 40 lanes for the entire system.
  - simcop2387 10y ago
    The chipset can add more also, but they will have higher latency. It's common on lower end systems where the CPU only has 16 or so. Those'll go to the graphics card slot (the only 16x on the small board) and all other peripherals will come off the chipset's PCIe lanes.
    - jsheard 10y ago
      That's true, but the C612/X99 chipsets that pair with Broadwell-EP CPUs only provide an extra 8 PCIe 2.0 lanes. It's still nowhere near enough bandwidth to do what this concept wants to do.
      - simcop2387 10y ago
        Definitely. They'd have to develop something entirely new to do it, which I bet would cost more than just doing a quad socketed system to get all the lanes.
- virtuallynathan 10y ago
  You would need a dual CPU system. Skylake Xeons have 48x PCIe. 16x TB3 = 64x PCIe Lanes 2x GPU = 32x PCIe Lanes 2x M.2 = 8x PCIe Lanes Chipset = 8x PCIe Lanes Would be too much for even 2x Skylake Xeons. Maybe 10-12x TB3 ports.

hedora 10y ago

The PC ecosystem shipped something similar years ago (with different aesthetic choices). Combine a silverstone ft03 with a noctua d14 dual tower cooler, and you get a similar convection cooling design. Pics: http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-reviews/67015-noctua-nh-d15-cpu-cooler-review.html http://www.hardwarecanucks.com/forum/hardware-canucks-review... http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1190-page4.html http://www.silentpcreview.com/article1190-page4.html The main problem is that tool-less cases were in style back then. If you pick it up in the obvious way, you'll end up with two side panels in your hands and a broken heap of computer on the ground. Other than that, it is a totally solid and very quiet case for high tdp systems.

random28345 10y ago
Actually, the main problem is that you can't put 2x full length video cards in it. Cooling a mini-itx board with a 14mm processor with <90W TDP is not a unsolved problem. But the standard ATX motherboard layout assumes most of the head will be generated by the processor, and that's simply not true today. A dual GPU setup for gaming or ML might generate 5 to 10 times the heat generated by the processor, and there's literally a couple centimeters for airflow between the two cards. When I see an innovative design that maximizes airflow across the GPU(s), preferably one that involves removing the stock "windtunnel" cooler and replacing it with massive "tower" passive radiators and 3x 120mm temperature controlled case fans blowing cool air across them, then I'll be impressed. (note that this would require either a new motherboard design or using pci ribbon extenders)
- seanp2k2 10y ago
  Yeah, I was thinking PCI-E extenders or daughter boards too. You could also use MXMs, possibly doing 4-way SLI or something crazy: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_PCI_Express_Module https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mobile_PCI_Express_Module But then you're back to the same problem of needing custom coolers which work with the modules AND the case, where we've seen Apple never release an upgrade part since launch.
- hedora 10y ago
  Actually, that case fits two full length cards, or at least full-length the year it was built. The power supply is on the bottom, on the "CPU side" of the motherboard (the motherboard ports stick out the top), so you get the full motherboard length, plus the power supply height, plus a bit extra. It leads to a pretty dense, but well laid out install. There is a diagonally mounted 120mm fan that does nothing and has to be removed, if I remember right. Crucially, convection (with help from fans) means the cards are pulling cooler air than in normal cases (at least in theory -- in practice, it is very quiet with one GPU). I can't recommend it due to the lack of screws / latches on the side panels, but the general layout and airflow is great, and could easily be adapted for a different model with support for longer cards or even three way GPUs. Current generation AMD cards have stock water coolers that are similar to what you asked for, but apparently third party air coolers are cooler/quieter. (I don't remember if the case I linked has water cooler mounts. I doubt it.)

Shivetya 10y ago

I am quite sure that apple's is more constrained by appearances than the coupling of hardware and software. the mac pro design while very unique is so constraining that they may have simply painted themselves into a corner and had no graceful out. if they had kept the previous incarnation then updates could have proceeded yearly or even once every two years. I do agree this proposal lacks a lot, it certainly has no Apple vibe to it