4 ms·

The tone and popularity of this sort of reply really bothers me. The grandparent is the best explanation of the actual business decision in the entire thread. H

by hoelle 16y ago

The tone and popularity of this sort of reply really bothers me. The grandparent is the best explanation of the actual business decision in the entire thread. How was any of it "straw man"? Trying to get paid for your product when someone uses it isn't any more of a "cash grab" than any other company selling any other product for money. In other industries when a maker sees no share of the sale of his work, we usually find a way to call what happened to him what it is: theft. If EULAs were enforced, the situation would be different since the "non transferable license" would maybe kill the commercial used games market.

henrikschroder 16y ago
The way it's marketed, and has been for a long while, is that they're selling only one product: The Game, and possession of The Game entitles you to use their online servers. With this move, they're trying to split it up into two products: The Game, and Online Access, but they don't make the distinction when you buy the game new, only when you buy it used. This borders on violating the first sale doctrine, because the product becomes crippled or partly used-up when you purchase it, for no good reason. I can understand EA perfectly, they wish very strongly that they were in the business of selling services on a per-month basis, but they are in the commodities business where they sell stuff, and their rights to dictate what can and can't be done with said stuff expires when it's sold. There are a few companies (Autodesk?) that try to maintain that their commercial software licenses are non-transferable, but they usually get told to stuff it when they try to stop people from buying old licenses. I am slightly worried and curious as to why you seem to think that non-transferable commercial licenses are a good idea?
- hoelle 16y ago
  Non-transferable licenses are a great idea because makers should get paid for their work. It's unfortunate the courts have ruled against this when the delivery medium (the disk) is sold on a store shelf. It's like making a movie theater let patrons resell their tickets to be used for a later show. I expect the eventual result is that everyone will move their content online. See the rise of Steam, XBLA, and soon services like OnLive.
  - henrikschroder 16y ago
    But they did get paid, someone bought the original license!
matwood 16y ago
The GPP sets up a strawman argument by saying that people are expecting EA to give their product away for free. No one is expecting that at all. To address your point, they are getting paid when someone buys and uses their product. Currently the $60 price tag includes usage of the game servers for a single person. If that person sells the game why should the new owner have to pay an additional cost? The old user is no longer using the servers and as far as EA is concerned their cost didn't change. In other industries it's theft? I've never bought a new car so all the used cars I've bought have been theft? What about used cars that still had original warranties intact? Should I be forced to buy a new warranty since I wasn't the original person who purchased it, even though it's tied to the car?
- hoelle 16y ago
  EA is selling one ticket for a ride in a car, not the car itself. Just because courts have ruled that the ticket coming on a disk means you can resell the disk, doesn't mean EA has no right to find a way to tear the ticket.
- seekely 16y ago
  I don't think it's theft at all. It's perfectly rational for a gamer to buy and sell used games. But it's also perfectly rational for EA to try to make as much money as possible from the used game market which completely undermines its business. I suspect the used car market is also a thorn in the side of auto manufactures. They probably carry higher prices at retail to compensate for the used market as much as possible (assumption). That works for them. EA could do the same thing and raise the prices of its games to $80-$100. However, they have options. EA would rather shift the cost from 'good' gamers buying new games and go after 'bad' gamers buying from the used market who are only indirectly customers. Why is this wrong? In the end, somebody has to pay for what EA produces.
  - henrikschroder 16y ago
    In the end, somebody has to pay for what EA produces. What? Absolutely not! EA are free to offer their products at whatever price point they see fit in an attempt to recover their costs for producing their product, as long as they do so within the applicable consumer protection laws. And people are free to accept their offer and purchase their product. Sometimes they succeed. Sometimes they don't.

by hoelle 16y ago

henrikschroder 16y ago

The way it's marketed, and has been for a long while, is that they're selling only one product: The Game, and possession of The Game entitles you to use their online servers. With this move, they're trying to split it up into two products: The Game, and Online Access, but they don't make the distinction when you buy the game new, only when you buy it used. This borders on violating the first sale doctrine, because the product becomes crippled or partly used-up when you purchase it, for no good reason. I can understand EA perfectly, they wish very strongly that they were in the business of selling services on a per-month basis, but they are in the commodities business where they sell stuff, and their rights to dictate what can and can't be done with said stuff expires when it's sold. There are a few companies (Autodesk?) that try to maintain that their commercial software licenses are non-transferable, but they usually get told to stuff it when they try to stop people from buying old licenses. I am slightly worried and curious as to why you seem to think that non-transferable commercial licenses are a good idea?

hoelle 16y ago
Non-transferable licenses are a great idea because makers should get paid for their work. It's unfortunate the courts have ruled against this when the delivery medium (the disk) is sold on a store shelf. It's like making a movie theater let patrons resell their tickets to be used for a later show. I expect the eventual result is that everyone will move their content online. See the rise of Steam, XBLA, and soon services like OnLive.
- henrikschroder 16y ago
  But they did get paid, someone bought the original license!

matwood 16y ago

The GPP sets up a strawman argument by saying that people are expecting EA to give their product away for free. No one is expecting that at all. To address your point, they are getting paid when someone buys and uses their product. Currently the $60 price tag includes usage of the game servers for a single person. If that person sells the game why should the new owner have to pay an additional cost? The old user is no longer using the servers and as far as EA is concerned their cost didn't change. In other industries it's theft? I've never bought a new car so all the used cars I've bought have been theft? What about used cars that still had original warranties intact? Should I be forced to buy a new warranty since I wasn't the original person who purchased it, even though it's tied to the car?

hoelle 16y ago
EA is selling one ticket for a ride in a car, not the car itself. Just because courts have ruled that the ticket coming on a disk means you can resell the disk, doesn't mean EA has no right to find a way to tear the ticket.
seekely 16y ago
I don't think it's theft at all. It's perfectly rational for a gamer to buy and sell used games. But it's also perfectly rational for EA to try to make as much money as possible from the used game market which completely undermines its business. I suspect the used car market is also a thorn in the side of auto manufactures. They probably carry higher prices at retail to compensate for the used market as much as possible (assumption). That works for them. EA could do the same thing and raise the prices of its games to $80-$100. However, they have options. EA would rather shift the cost from 'good' gamers buying new games and go after 'bad' gamers buying from the used market who are only indirectly customers. Why is this wrong? In the end, somebody has to pay for what EA produces.
- henrikschroder 16y ago
  In the end, somebody has to pay for what EA produces. What? Absolutely not! EA are free to offer their products at whatever price point they see fit in an attempt to recover their costs for producing their product, as long as they do so within the applicable consumer protection laws. And people are free to accept their offer and purchase their product. Sometimes they succeed. Sometimes they don't.