8 ms·

Confirm or Deny: Peter Thiel

76 points by taylorbuley 10y ago

gerby 10y ago
Peter Thiel is a nobleman in my eyes. His type of Philanthropy, is the type of Philanthropy that doesn't leave the worlds innovators and statistical anomalies behind. I've encountered far more respect from Peters team and his network than I've encountered from any potential investors, anywhere. Within 10 minutes of contacting a Thiel-network firm, I had a meeting (next Monday). I'm also a guy who's lived 50-75% below the poverty line for years to get my innovation to the point where it's a once-in-a-generation startup, and I certainly haven't been discriminated against. I see Peter as a person who either is successful at getting the best out of people (and hopefully have them come to him), or has no problem saying No to people that probably ought not to be invested in - unless the bet was to fill a certain niche/padding of the fund to show short-term returns in terms of increased Market Value to limited partners. When I read in the media that people call Peter a "Fascist", what I'm really reading is that these people saying horrible things about a perfectly good man is because they're intolerant of other peoples choices or views to the point of being Maoistic and Libelous. Even if Peter said No to me, by no means do I feel he would do me harm. He probably could because I don't exactly have patents issued, but I don't think he will because it's not why he got into business. Look at Thiel term sheets vs the competition. Night and day. Also, think about it like this, Mr. Thiel is in a powerful position in politics, and could literally destroy me (and I know this), but his VC firm that it looks like he put all (or most) of the money into, felt it was important to meet with me as soon as possible and made me feel like a somebody, even though I felt like nobody for years. If they say Yes, that was the best way to start what could be a lifelong (forever?) relationship, and won my intense loyalty. People should create the innovations, and come forth to Peter and his network. They really should.
IvarTheHomeless 10y ago
duplicate of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13378029#13378276 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13378029#13378276
- tyre 10y ago
  Not a duplicate, they are different articles
kafkaesq 10y ago
We should commend her for not taking herself too seriously. But even so, she gave him way too many softballs.
- nostromo 10y ago
  This context can get lost online easier than in print -- but this is in the "Style & Fashion" section of the paper. It's not intended as hard-hitting journalism.
  - kafkaesq 10y ago
    It's not intended as hard-hitting journalism. Yeah, I get that part. But even considering that, she's letting him off way too easy. She should have given him a few softballs to get his guard down... then sunk her claws into him.
    - oh_sigh 10y ago
      Yes, that would make perfect sense in the Fashion & Style section. Why don't you share with us some of the hardballs you would throw at Thiel, given the chance?
      - kafkaesq 10y ago
        It wouldn't be the same. I could never match her savagery and gusto. The more basic point is -- if I were running a major newspaper, I wouldn't invite fascist collaborators to do innocent puff pieces in the Fashion & Style section, or any other section of my paper to begin with. Other than as a ruse to lure them into a well-deserved public grilling, that is.
        oh_sigh 10y ago
        Ah yes, "Peter Thiel - fascist collaborator". That would go great on a business card! Feel free to post some good questions, even if they lack savagery and gusto. I'm curious what you think about Thiel.
pdog 10y ago
Is Confirm or Deny a regular thing? This is an interesting format for print interviews.
- grzm 10y ago
  Google tells me Dowd's done this at least once before, with André Leon Talley: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/21/fashion/confirm-or-deny-andre-leon-talley.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/21/fashion/confirm-or-deny-a...
comboy 10y ago
This kind of interview seems like a great idea. Information density is way higher than in a standard one.
- bloudermilk 10y ago
  Agree that the format is dense, but most of the content is complete drivel. I'm surprised to see this on the front page.
- adamsea 10y ago
  Respectfully I disagree. Yes, there is higher information density, but it is about information which actually obscures and hides important knowledge (information with context) and discussions which people need to have. I say this because the only reason this article exists is due to Thiel's support of the Trump administration, and thus his association with it's controversial (the wall, deporting muslims, etc) policies and Trump's controversial public statements and persona. I would have preferred to see substantive questions addressing this stuff posed. Maureen Dowd was interviewing one of the most powerful people in the country. Instead, we get information, but the value of that information is questionable. I read the interview as "normalizing" Thiel - like, "Hey, this guy likes stuff to!" Nothing inherently wrong with that but the Fourth Estate needs to do more.
  - rchaud 10y ago
    This was in the Style section, so I suppose they have to humanize their subjects, even if the subject is a reclusive billionaire whose daily life does not even remotely resemble ours.
ElijahLynn 10y ago
Should I have respect for Peter Thiel in him trying to help Trump? It is odd, maybe he is playing Trump, maybe Elon is too? I feel like even talking to Trump validates his lies and just disgusting moral integrity of what it means to be American.
- cgag 10y ago
  If you already respect Thiel then I don't see him working with the president to steer things being a reason to stop.
  - ryandamm 10y ago
    I suppose if you already respect Thiel you have already given him a pass for his misogynistic and racist statements in the libertarian press. So yeah, less to forgive in his support of Trump. But then again, you'd have to overlook his incorrect views on things like macroeconomics (Clarium was quite the hedge fund!). I like the Bezos quote, frankly. I think it sums up Thiel well. As a startup investor, you only have to be right a few times, and being wrong doesn't hurt that much. Sadly, governing -- and choosing our represented leaders -- comes with higher stakes and worse outcomes.
    - cgag 10y ago
      Can you link a few racist or misogynistic links? I generally like thiel. I'm open to not liking thiel but I suspect I might interpret him differently.
      - ryandamm 10y ago
        'The 1920s were the last decade in American history during which one could be genuinely optimistic about politics. Since 1920, the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women — two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians — have rendered the notion of “capitalist democracy” into an oxymoron.' [1]: https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/education-libertarian https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/educatio... I suppose there are different ways to read that, but Thiel doesn't believe democracy with universal suffrage leads to the best outcomes. I disagree.
SkyMarshal 10y ago
"Maureen Dowd: California should secede. Peter Thiel: Confirm. I’d be fine with that. I think it would be good for California, good for the rest of the country. It would help Mr. Trump’s re-election campaign." I don't see how the world's ~sixth largest economy succeeding from the world's 1st/2nd largest is good for the latter. "You like “Star Trek” more than “Star Wars.” Deny. I like “Star Wars” way better. I’m a capitalist. “Star Wars” is the capitalist show. “Star Trek” is the communist one. There is no money in “Star Trek” because you just have the transporter machine that can make anything you need. The whole plot of “Star Wars” starts with Han Solo having this debt that he owes and so the plot in “Star Wars” is driven by money." I hope he's just trolling here. Preferring a future of the same old debtors and creditors as today, to one where plentiful energy can be transformed into any kind of matter the human race needs, eliminating the need for money? Edit: actually he didn't say anything preferring one future or the other, so maybe he just likes Star Wars b/c it's more relatable to present day.
- sfeng 10y ago
  In general to be a business person or investor is to want some semblance of the modern order to stand. Without some predictability and consistency it's very hard to build any sort of business or generate wealth.
- WalterSear 10y ago
  > I hope he's just trolling here. No, he's just not a nice person.
- diab0lic 10y ago
  > I don't see how the world's ~sixth largest economy succeeding from the world's 1st/2nd largest is good for the latter. I'm not advocating for the separation of California, but... I think we can only claim this for certain if our optimization target is size of the economy, in which case no separating from a larger economy would be bad for California. Most entities would be very happy to be the 6th largest economy in the world, I'd guess there are only 5 countries that wouldn't be so keen on it. Quality of life is comparably very good in many countries with smaller economies than the United States. I'd speculate that this is due to the smaller geographic region occupied by the country, and the lower rate of dispersion across the political spectrum amongst citizens. California would achieve both of these in a succession. California has a lot of issues both social and political that diverge from the opinion of most other states. Political correctness, immigration, etc... Again I'm not saying California should divorce itself from the United States, only that I can see why someone might have such an opinion. > I hope he's just trolling here. Preferring a future of the same old debtors and creditors as today, to one where plentiful energy can be transformed into any kind of matter the human race needs, eliminating the need for money? Probably not, historically he's been pretty capitalist.
deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
lightedman 10y ago
" There is no money in “Star Trek” " Hi, my name is gold-pressed latinum.
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  Or, earlier, "Federation credits".
ForrestN 10y ago
Such a waste of an opportunity! "If the public fully understood your reasons for supporting Donald Trump, they would be shocked and despise you." "Your successful persecution of Gawker provided meaningful catharsis related to personal traumas around your sexual orientation." "Given the chance, you would trade the lives of one hundred thousand poor people for the ability to live indefinitely." "Donald Trump has the upper hand in your relationship."
- paulsutter 10y ago
  Here's the text of Peter's speech at the national press club, explaining his reasons for supporting Trump. http://www.mercurynews.com/2016/10/31/peter-thiel-on-trump-and-the-crazy-condition-of-our-country/ http://www.mercurynews.com/2016/10/31/peter-thiel-on-trump-a... (ps downvoted you for homophobic nonsense)
  - daughart 10y ago
    Is it homophobic? I assumed the personal trauma being referenced was the public outing by Gawker.
  - ForrestN 10y ago
    I am gay and the premise that criticizing Thiel for working out his issues by destroying a company is somehow homophobic is very problematic. And anyway, I'm not confirming or denying. I want him to.
    - paulsutter 10y ago
      I apologize for misunderstanding you, but your words still look ugly to me. If you really care so much about what Peter thinks, what exactly are you accusing him of with the first question? How are you so sure of his motivations? That seems offensive coming from anyone. Happy to discuss in email.
- salemh 10y ago
  Comment should be flagged.
ryandamm 10y ago
Since this space appears to be a referendum on Thiel's involvement with Trump (mostly), let me just offer this perspective: in Thiel's main business of being an investor in startups, this could backfire if enough founders find the association repugnant enough they'd refuse money from Thiel. This isn't hypothetical; my cofounder and I agree that we won't take money from Thiel or any Thiel-affiliated fund. Let the flaming commence, I guess.
- civilian 10y ago
  How is it repugnant?
  - ryandamm 10y ago
    Because it's supporting an authoritarian liar, who denies the validity of established science, the rule of law, and the normal checks and balances of government. He also has suggested he'll trample on civil rights, including the freedom of press, speech, and the civil liberties of many Americans. Just out of curiosity, were you paying attention during the election, and if so, where did you get your information?
    - civilian 10y ago
      I was paying attention :) The left is anti-GMO, which is straight-up anti-science. (Which, I also need to add, is the kind of anti-science which will exacerbate food scarcity in Africa. Drought-resistance crops save lives.) They also tend to harbor anti-vaxxers, althought Trump is also an anti-vaxxer. IDK! I'm just so tired of the emotional crybabying from the left. I agree (with Trump) that the media is extremely biased-- if you watched Trump's press conference today you'll see it. And the left tended to just piss on the way that Trump talked. They don't even see that he's a master of words in his own way. He looks like a fool, but he's _wailing_ on the left. Here's how the next 4 years are going to go down. The left is going to continue crying wolf/fascist/racist/sexist/whatever. Moderates and independents are going to see a mediocre presidency, but _not_ the authoritarianism you think we're in for. And then he's going to get re-elected, because of the low expectations.
davidcollantes 10y ago
> There is no money in “Star Trek” because you just have the transporter machine that can make anything you need. Gasp! They are replicators, no transporters. :-)
- dragonwriter 10y ago
  Also, while the Federation (at least canonically from some time in TNG on; there is conflicting evidence in TOS and maybe early TNG before Roddenberry laid down the law on the issue) doesn't use money internally in Star Trek, there is money, financial transactions, and the aspiration to and acquisition of property in use and driving plots in Trek, particularly DS9, including where main characters who are Federation citizens are involved.

76 points by taylorbuley 10y ago

gerby 10y ago

Peter Thiel is a nobleman in my eyes. His type of Philanthropy, is the type of Philanthropy that doesn't leave the worlds innovators and statistical anomalies behind. I've encountered far more respect from Peters team and his network than I've encountered from any potential investors, anywhere. Within 10 minutes of contacting a Thiel-network firm, I had a meeting (next Monday). I'm also a guy who's lived 50-75% below the poverty line for years to get my innovation to the point where it's a once-in-a-generation startup, and I certainly haven't been discriminated against. I see Peter as a person who either is successful at getting the best out of people (and hopefully have them come to him), or has no problem saying No to people that probably ought not to be invested in - unless the bet was to fill a certain niche/padding of the fund to show short-term returns in terms of increased Market Value to limited partners. When I read in the media that people call Peter a "Fascist", what I'm really reading is that these people saying horrible things about a perfectly good man is because they're intolerant of other peoples choices or views to the point of being Maoistic and Libelous. Even if Peter said No to me, by no means do I feel he would do me harm. He probably could because I don't exactly have patents issued, but I don't think he will because it's not why he got into business. Look at Thiel term sheets vs the competition. Night and day. Also, think about it like this, Mr. Thiel is in a powerful position in politics, and could literally destroy me (and I know this), but his VC firm that it looks like he put all (or most) of the money into, felt it was important to meet with me as soon as possible and made me feel like a somebody, even though I felt like nobody for years. If they say Yes, that was the best way to start what could be a lifelong (forever?) relationship, and won my intense loyalty. People should create the innovations, and come forth to Peter and his network. They really should.

IvarTheHomeless 10y ago

duplicate of https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13378029#13378276 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=13378029#13378276

tyre 10y ago
Not a duplicate, they are different articles

kafkaesq 10y ago

We should commend her for not taking herself too seriously. But even so, she gave him way too many softballs.

nostromo 10y ago
This context can get lost online easier than in print -- but this is in the "Style & Fashion" section of the paper. It's not intended as hard-hitting journalism.
- kafkaesq 10y ago
  It's not intended as hard-hitting journalism. Yeah, I get that part. But even considering that, she's letting him off way too easy. She should have given him a few softballs to get his guard down... then sunk her claws into him.
  - oh_sigh 10y ago
    Yes, that would make perfect sense in the Fashion & Style section. Why don't you share with us some of the hardballs you would throw at Thiel, given the chance?
    - kafkaesq 10y ago
      It wouldn't be the same. I could never match her savagery and gusto. The more basic point is -- if I were running a major newspaper, I wouldn't invite fascist collaborators to do innocent puff pieces in the Fashion & Style section, or any other section of my paper to begin with. Other than as a ruse to lure them into a well-deserved public grilling, that is.
      - oh_sigh 10y ago
        Ah yes, "Peter Thiel - fascist collaborator". That would go great on a business card! Feel free to post some good questions, even if they lack savagery and gusto. I'm curious what you think about Thiel.

pdog 10y ago

Is Confirm or Deny a regular thing? This is an interesting format for print interviews.

grzm 10y ago
Google tells me Dowd's done this at least once before, with André Leon Talley: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/21/fashion/confirm-or-deny-andre-leon-talley.html https://www.nytimes.com/2016/12/21/fashion/confirm-or-deny-a...

comboy 10y ago

This kind of interview seems like a great idea. Information density is way higher than in a standard one.

bloudermilk 10y ago
Agree that the format is dense, but most of the content is complete drivel. I'm surprised to see this on the front page.
adamsea 10y ago
Respectfully I disagree. Yes, there is higher information density, but it is about information which actually obscures and hides important knowledge (information with context) and discussions which people need to have. I say this because the only reason this article exists is due to Thiel's support of the Trump administration, and thus his association with it's controversial (the wall, deporting muslims, etc) policies and Trump's controversial public statements and persona. I would have preferred to see substantive questions addressing this stuff posed. Maureen Dowd was interviewing one of the most powerful people in the country. Instead, we get information, but the value of that information is questionable. I read the interview as "normalizing" Thiel - like, "Hey, this guy likes stuff to!" Nothing inherently wrong with that but the Fourth Estate needs to do more.
- rchaud 10y ago
  This was in the Style section, so I suppose they have to humanize their subjects, even if the subject is a reclusive billionaire whose daily life does not even remotely resemble ours.

ElijahLynn 10y ago

Should I have respect for Peter Thiel in him trying to help Trump? It is odd, maybe he is playing Trump, maybe Elon is too? I feel like even talking to Trump validates his lies and just disgusting moral integrity of what it means to be American.

cgag 10y ago
If you already respect Thiel then I don't see him working with the president to steer things being a reason to stop.
- ryandamm 10y ago
  I suppose if you already respect Thiel you have already given him a pass for his misogynistic and racist statements in the libertarian press. So yeah, less to forgive in his support of Trump. But then again, you'd have to overlook his incorrect views on things like macroeconomics (Clarium was quite the hedge fund!). I like the Bezos quote, frankly. I think it sums up Thiel well. As a startup investor, you only have to be right a few times, and being wrong doesn't hurt that much. Sadly, governing -- and choosing our represented leaders -- comes with higher stakes and worse outcomes.
  - cgag 10y ago
    Can you link a few racist or misogynistic links? I generally like thiel. I'm open to not liking thiel but I suspect I might interpret him differently.
    - ryandamm 10y ago
      'The 1920s were the last decade in American history during which one could be genuinely optimistic about politics. Since 1920, the vast increase in welfare beneficiaries and the extension of the franchise to women — two constituencies that are notoriously tough for libertarians — have rendered the notion of “capitalist democracy” into an oxymoron.' [1]: https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/education-libertarian https://www.cato-unbound.org/2009/04/13/peter-thiel/educatio... I suppose there are different ways to read that, but Thiel doesn't believe democracy with universal suffrage leads to the best outcomes. I disagree.

SkyMarshal 10y ago

"Maureen Dowd: California should secede. Peter Thiel: Confirm. I’d be fine with that. I think it would be good for California, good for the rest of the country. It would help Mr. Trump’s re-election campaign." I don't see how the world's ~sixth largest economy succeeding from the world's 1st/2nd largest is good for the latter. "You like “Star Trek” more than “Star Wars.” Deny. I like “Star Wars” way better. I’m a capitalist. “Star Wars” is the capitalist show. “Star Trek” is the communist one. There is no money in “Star Trek” because you just have the transporter machine that can make anything you need. The whole plot of “Star Wars” starts with Han Solo having this debt that he owes and so the plot in “Star Wars” is driven by money." I hope he's just trolling here. Preferring a future of the same old debtors and creditors as today, to one where plentiful energy can be transformed into any kind of matter the human race needs, eliminating the need for money? Edit: actually he didn't say anything preferring one future or the other, so maybe he just likes Star Wars b/c it's more relatable to present day.

sfeng 10y ago
In general to be a business person or investor is to want some semblance of the modern order to stand. Without some predictability and consistency it's very hard to build any sort of business or generate wealth.
WalterSear 10y ago
> I hope he's just trolling here. No, he's just not a nice person.
diab0lic 10y ago
> I don't see how the world's ~sixth largest economy succeeding from the world's 1st/2nd largest is good for the latter. I'm not advocating for the separation of California, but... I think we can only claim this for certain if our optimization target is size of the economy, in which case no separating from a larger economy would be bad for California. Most entities would be very happy to be the 6th largest economy in the world, I'd guess there are only 5 countries that wouldn't be so keen on it. Quality of life is comparably very good in many countries with smaller economies than the United States. I'd speculate that this is due to the smaller geographic region occupied by the country, and the lower rate of dispersion across the political spectrum amongst citizens. California would achieve both of these in a succession. California has a lot of issues both social and political that diverge from the opinion of most other states. Political correctness, immigration, etc... Again I'm not saying California should divorce itself from the United States, only that I can see why someone might have such an opinion. > I hope he's just trolling here. Preferring a future of the same old debtors and creditors as today, to one where plentiful energy can be transformed into any kind of matter the human race needs, eliminating the need for money? Probably not, historically he's been pretty capitalist.

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

lightedman 10y ago

" There is no money in “Star Trek” " Hi, my name is gold-pressed latinum.

dragonwriter 10y ago
Or, earlier, "Federation credits".

ForrestN 10y ago

Such a waste of an opportunity! "If the public fully understood your reasons for supporting Donald Trump, they would be shocked and despise you." "Your successful persecution of Gawker provided meaningful catharsis related to personal traumas around your sexual orientation." "Given the chance, you would trade the lives of one hundred thousand poor people for the ability to live indefinitely." "Donald Trump has the upper hand in your relationship."

paulsutter 10y ago
Here's the text of Peter's speech at the national press club, explaining his reasons for supporting Trump. http://www.mercurynews.com/2016/10/31/peter-thiel-on-trump-and-the-crazy-condition-of-our-country/ http://www.mercurynews.com/2016/10/31/peter-thiel-on-trump-a... (ps downvoted you for homophobic nonsense)
- daughart 10y ago
  Is it homophobic? I assumed the personal trauma being referenced was the public outing by Gawker.
- ForrestN 10y ago
  I am gay and the premise that criticizing Thiel for working out his issues by destroying a company is somehow homophobic is very problematic. And anyway, I'm not confirming or denying. I want him to.
  - paulsutter 10y ago
    I apologize for misunderstanding you, but your words still look ugly to me. If you really care so much about what Peter thinks, what exactly are you accusing him of with the first question? How are you so sure of his motivations? That seems offensive coming from anyone. Happy to discuss in email.
salemh 10y ago
Comment should be flagged.

ryandamm 10y ago

Since this space appears to be a referendum on Thiel's involvement with Trump (mostly), let me just offer this perspective: in Thiel's main business of being an investor in startups, this could backfire if enough founders find the association repugnant enough they'd refuse money from Thiel. This isn't hypothetical; my cofounder and I agree that we won't take money from Thiel or any Thiel-affiliated fund. Let the flaming commence, I guess.

civilian 10y ago
How is it repugnant?
- ryandamm 10y ago
  Because it's supporting an authoritarian liar, who denies the validity of established science, the rule of law, and the normal checks and balances of government. He also has suggested he'll trample on civil rights, including the freedom of press, speech, and the civil liberties of many Americans. Just out of curiosity, were you paying attention during the election, and if so, where did you get your information?
  - civilian 10y ago
    I was paying attention :) The left is anti-GMO, which is straight-up anti-science. (Which, I also need to add, is the kind of anti-science which will exacerbate food scarcity in Africa. Drought-resistance crops save lives.) They also tend to harbor anti-vaxxers, althought Trump is also an anti-vaxxer. IDK! I'm just so tired of the emotional crybabying from the left. I agree (with Trump) that the media is extremely biased-- if you watched Trump's press conference today you'll see it. And the left tended to just piss on the way that Trump talked. They don't even see that he's a master of words in his own way. He looks like a fool, but he's _wailing_ on the left. Here's how the next 4 years are going to go down. The left is going to continue crying wolf/fascist/racist/sexist/whatever. Moderates and independents are going to see a mediocre presidency, but _not_ the authoritarianism you think we're in for. And then he's going to get re-elected, because of the low expectations.

davidcollantes 10y ago

> There is no money in “Star Trek” because you just have the transporter machine that can make anything you need. Gasp! They are replicators, no transporters. :-)

dragonwriter 10y ago
Also, while the Federation (at least canonically from some time in TNG on; there is conflicting evidence in TOS and maybe early TNG before Roddenberry laid down the law on the issue) doesn't use money internally in Star Trek, there is money, financial transactions, and the aspiration to and acquisition of property in use and driving plots in Trek, particularly DS9, including where main characters who are Federation citizens are involved.