3 ms·

Your comment doesn't resonate with me. Have you worked in an early- or mid-stage startup in NYC or the Bay Area in the past... 10 years? > No offense, but tha

by jMyles 10y ago

Your comment doesn't resonate with me. Have you worked in an early- or mid-stage startup in NYC or the Bay Area in the past... 10 years? > No offense, but that sounds like some kind of boys club, not professional working environment That's a strange value judgment; I'm not really sure what to think about it. At the end of the day, the company is still growing and meeting its goals. It is also still facilitating the development of open source software. So something is working. > Staying up late = no respect for private life (unless you've signed for it) Reelio is one of those clients that excited me to show up early and stay late. They also welcomed my wife and our baby to join whenever they wanted. Hardly disrespect for private life. > loud arbitrary music = forced culture implications (why do I have to listen to the music you like?) Well, sure - this doesn't work in the middle of the day when the entire company is there. But at 1AM when it's just a half dozen developers? Have you never had the experience of hearing new music at someone else's recommendation in a teamwork setting? It's a beautiful feeling.

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
amyjess 10y ago
> Have you worked in an early- or mid-stage startup in NYC or the Bay Area in the past... 10 years? ...why do you think I have no desire to move to either of those parts of the country or to work for a startup? I like to describe Silicon Valley as "degenerate" for a few reasons, and this is one of them. I'm perfectly happy working in the suburbs of Texas in a corporate environment (~500 employees, B2B telecom industry). > and our baby to join whenever they wanted Screaming baby in the office = I quit. I'm glad my current employer has "no children in the office" as written policy in our handbook.
- jMyles 10y ago
  Unless I'm missing something, you weren't the person I was responding to, right? I'm not saying that the startup environment is great for everyone, but it has produced a compelling critique of the corporate environment. Clearly. Shared music, late nights, open plans, families, ping pong / pinball, and so on... These aren't per se the mark of a "boys club" in contrast to a "professional environment," they are a critique of the industry-style work environment, and one that has been enormously successful in two the most economically active cities in the USA.
  - paulryanrogers 10y ago
    "...industry-style work environment, and one that has been enormously successful..." Seems to be confusing correlation with causation.
  - wott 10y ago
    This startup scene so far never made sense to me, but now thanks to you I can see the light: it was an artistic militant happening! Hurray!
- mcherm 10y ago
  > Screaming baby in the office = I quit. I'm glad my current employer has "no children in the office" as written policy in our handbook. Clearly different environments work for different people. I'm not trying to suggest that I want to try to concentrate on software development next to a screaming baby (that obviously wouldn't be an ideal environment), but I would be pleased and encouraged to have an employer who was open to allowing families into the work space. That's the sort of thing that truly motivates me, far more than foosball tables and free snacks.
- Bahamut 10y ago
  FWIW, not every company in the Bay Area is like that. I work for a small company in Palo Alto (< 50 people) where most people get in around 9 (some come earlier, some come later), and people will leave around 5 (some also leave earlier - SF people tend to leave around 3 to beat traffic). 1/3 of our company is also remote.
- wccrawford 10y ago
  When I worked retail, one of the cashier brought her (12 year old?) daughter to work one day and left her in the break room the whole time. One of the CSRs had a previously criminal history, but was a nice guy and did good work. That day, the daughter accused him of molesting her. Because he had a criminal record, he ended up going back to jail. I don't know if he did it or not, but the daughter should not have been there in the first place. Had the cashier followed company policy, the situation couldn't have happened. I'm not judging anyone, and no matter what actually happened, it's a horrible tragedy.
  - yarou 10y ago
    That's really fucked up. It's not impossible to imagine a scenario where the daughter playfully started flirting with the cashier and that ended up fucking his life over.
    - wolfgke 10y ago
      The problem is rather that people get jailed without really strong independent evidence (more than "his word against hers").
searine 10y ago
> Hardly disrespect for private life. Your are mistaking respect for private life with being a "company man". Instead of setting professional boundaries the company in this case integrated themselves into your identity/family/life.
- jMyles 10y ago
  Yes, I suppose you are right. And today, I have moved on, retain equity in the company, and am proud to watch projects that I started there continue to grow and expand. They're doing great; I'm doing great. What's the problem?
  - bitcrusher 10y ago
    I think the issue is not to invalidate your specific experience, but to highlight that your experience is pretty atypical and further that your experience should not be the norm. For every person like yourself that had a great experience in this mode, there are 500 people who are having a very BAD experience. It's fantastic that it worked for you and your team, in that time and space, however, the combination of factors that created that were unique and not easily repeatable. So, in absence of a formula to replicate that, we should instead be working to normalize a baseline that is conducive/comfortable for most folks.
chris_7 10y ago
If you're at the office at 1am, you probably need a union, not music. Work ends, at latest, 8 hours after you get there. People actually died for that a century ago, and now people are just throwing it away.
- jMyles 10y ago
  I enjoy long days. That doesn't mean I'm throwing anyone's efforts away. I am able to demand very high compensation, even among programmers. I am able to demand a work schedule that fits me (5-12 day stretches of long days, followed by vacations of a length of my choosing). My position is a mix of blessings, for which I am grateful, and work to gain the esteem and trust of the python (and larger programming-) communities. My heart goes out to those who struggled (and in some cases gave their lives) for better working conditions; I am nowhere near their plight and can't even know their struggle.

by jMyles 10y ago

deleted 10y ago

[deleted]

amyjess 10y ago

> Have you worked in an early- or mid-stage startup in NYC or the Bay Area in the past... 10 years? ...why do you think I have no desire to move to either of those parts of the country or to work for a startup? I like to describe Silicon Valley as "degenerate" for a few reasons, and this is one of them. I'm perfectly happy working in the suburbs of Texas in a corporate environment (~500 employees, B2B telecom industry). > and our baby to join whenever they wanted Screaming baby in the office = I quit. I'm glad my current employer has "no children in the office" as written policy in our handbook.

jMyles 10y ago
Unless I'm missing something, you weren't the person I was responding to, right? I'm not saying that the startup environment is great for everyone, but it has produced a compelling critique of the corporate environment. Clearly. Shared music, late nights, open plans, families, ping pong / pinball, and so on... These aren't per se the mark of a "boys club" in contrast to a "professional environment," they are a critique of the industry-style work environment, and one that has been enormously successful in two the most economically active cities in the USA.
- paulryanrogers 10y ago
  "...industry-style work environment, and one that has been enormously successful..." Seems to be confusing correlation with causation.
- wott 10y ago
  This startup scene so far never made sense to me, but now thanks to you I can see the light: it was an artistic militant happening! Hurray!
mcherm 10y ago
> Screaming baby in the office = I quit. I'm glad my current employer has "no children in the office" as written policy in our handbook. Clearly different environments work for different people. I'm not trying to suggest that I want to try to concentrate on software development next to a screaming baby (that obviously wouldn't be an ideal environment), but I would be pleased and encouraged to have an employer who was open to allowing families into the work space. That's the sort of thing that truly motivates me, far more than foosball tables and free snacks.
Bahamut 10y ago
FWIW, not every company in the Bay Area is like that. I work for a small company in Palo Alto (< 50 people) where most people get in around 9 (some come earlier, some come later), and people will leave around 5 (some also leave earlier - SF people tend to leave around 3 to beat traffic). 1/3 of our company is also remote.
wccrawford 10y ago
When I worked retail, one of the cashier brought her (12 year old?) daughter to work one day and left her in the break room the whole time. One of the CSRs had a previously criminal history, but was a nice guy and did good work. That day, the daughter accused him of molesting her. Because he had a criminal record, he ended up going back to jail. I don't know if he did it or not, but the daughter should not have been there in the first place. Had the cashier followed company policy, the situation couldn't have happened. I'm not judging anyone, and no matter what actually happened, it's a horrible tragedy.
- yarou 10y ago
  That's really fucked up. It's not impossible to imagine a scenario where the daughter playfully started flirting with the cashier and that ended up fucking his life over.
  - wolfgke 10y ago
    The problem is rather that people get jailed without really strong independent evidence (more than "his word against hers").

searine 10y ago

> Hardly disrespect for private life. Your are mistaking respect for private life with being a "company man". Instead of setting professional boundaries the company in this case integrated themselves into your identity/family/life.

jMyles 10y ago
Yes, I suppose you are right. And today, I have moved on, retain equity in the company, and am proud to watch projects that I started there continue to grow and expand. They're doing great; I'm doing great. What's the problem?
- bitcrusher 10y ago
  I think the issue is not to invalidate your specific experience, but to highlight that your experience is pretty atypical and further that your experience should not be the norm. For every person like yourself that had a great experience in this mode, there are 500 people who are having a very BAD experience. It's fantastic that it worked for you and your team, in that time and space, however, the combination of factors that created that were unique and not easily repeatable. So, in absence of a formula to replicate that, we should instead be working to normalize a baseline that is conducive/comfortable for most folks.

chris_7 10y ago

If you're at the office at 1am, you probably need a union, not music. Work ends, at latest, 8 hours after you get there. People actually died for that a century ago, and now people are just throwing it away.

jMyles 10y ago
I enjoy long days. That doesn't mean I'm throwing anyone's efforts away. I am able to demand very high compensation, even among programmers. I am able to demand a work schedule that fits me (5-12 day stretches of long days, followed by vacations of a length of my choosing). My position is a mix of blessings, for which I am grateful, and work to gain the esteem and trust of the python (and larger programming-) communities. My heart goes out to those who struggled (and in some cases gave their lives) for better working conditions; I am nowhere near their plight and can't even know their struggle.