5 ms·

It was actually objectively better because the deductible was about 1/5th, so We'd actually hit and get some value back.

nradov 10y ago
I don't think you understand how insurance works. What do you think would have happened to you if you got a serious chronic medical condition and exceeded your lifetime coverage limit on the old (pre ACA) policy?
- WillPostForFood 10y ago
  I would happily trade a lifetime coverage limit for a reasonable deductible so I can afford healthcare today for myself and my family. Your arrogance is astounding - ACA is a disaster for the vast majority of self insured people, and there were cheaper easier solutions for the small number of people who have chronic issues and lifetime coverage caps.
  - tptacek 10y ago
    There are no serious chronic medical conditions in my family and the ACA has been a lifesaver for us, the only reason we were able to start our last company. That's because before the ACA, no individual health insurance plans were available to our family at any cost, due to "do-not-cover" lists (for instance: our daughter, now a teenager, had an unexplained seizure when she was 4 years old). There were millions of families in the same situation. Further: as an employer, I'm aware that what I pay for an ACA silver plan is ballpark comparable to what we paid as employers for family coverage in our small group plan. The ACA plan is more expensive, but nothing resembling twice as expensive. The ACA has not been a disaster for individual entrepreneurs. It has been anything but.
    - sethev 10y ago
      I'll throw another anecdote in there. The small consulting company I worked for up until 2014 switched over to reimbursing us for a portion of what we paid for an ACA plan. Before that we had a (very small) group policy that was incredibly expensive because of health problems that one person had. The ACA saved thousands of dollars in that case (without subsidies) just by having access to a larger risk pool. I've heard people complain about ACA wrt to small business but it's always very vague general terms whereas the specific cases I know about were all positive.
      - WillPostForFood 10y ago
        Look at the data then - ACA plans are going up 22% in just this year. And that doesn't account for the skyrocketing deductibles that effectively make the plans worthless except for catastrophic illness. It may have bailed out a some people with pre-existing conditions, but in totality, it isn't a money saver, it is crushing people that have to buy individual plans, and that's not an anecdote, it is clear from the data on the cost of plans. http://abcnews.go.com/Health/health-care-premiums-rising-obamacare/story?id=43047190 http://abcnews.go.com/Health/health-care-premiums-rising-oba...
        tptacek 10y ago
        Non-ACA plans went up by a comparable amount in the years just prior to ACA; that was one of the reasons the ACA had the urgency it did at the time. Our Non-HDHP non-HSA-qualifying premiums today are more expensive, but not nearly twice as expensive, as the small group market was in 2009. But the trajectory we were on prior to the ACA was double-digit annual premium increases, so it's tough to say how much of that is ACA. Remember also that these "regulations" we're talking about are primarily things like actuarial value, spending caps, community rating, and guaranteed issue. That's not red tape! Obviously, if you're 25 years old and buying insurance, the ACA is not a particularly great value to you (unless you have a "pre-existing condition", which I'll remind you there's no due process for adjudicating --- an unexplained seizure 10 years ago is a "do-not-cover" pre-ex). But that's part of the point!
        10y ago
    - WillPostForFood 10y ago
      In California, for an individual, the ACA is minimally 3 times as much, for substantially less coverage. Pre-ACA, we paid $400 a month for $2000 deductible PPO plan. We now pay $1200 a month for $12,000 deductible PPO, and had to switch doctors. Go check the numbers for a bronze plan (for 3) for yourself: http://www.coveredca.com/ http://www.coveredca.com/ It is ridiculous is to say a good solution to pre-existing conditions and "do-not-cover-lists" is raising rates and deductibles 3x. It is grossly wasteful, inefficient, expensive solution.
      - tptacek 10y ago
        What year, how many people, and what provider? We insured California employees and I have some idea of how much we paid to do it. For instance: are you comparing individual market PPO premiums from 2009 to 2016 ACA individual market PPOs? That 2009 PPO didn't have guaranteed-issue, meaning that your insurer got to cherry pick you out of the population. Your number is a more accurate comparison if it's from the small group marketplace (where we had to buy insurance from), because small group coverage had guaranteed issue. Also worth mentioning: California premiums had double digit growth in 2009 and 2010, both prior to ACA.
        WillPostForFood 10y ago
        2 adults, 1 child. In 2012 we bought Blue Cross PPO, $2,000 deductible, $400. As ACA approached it crept up a bit, but was still in the $400 range, deductible might have gone to $2500. First year of ACA it jumped to $800, and has gone up quickly since. Besides the crazy rate hikes, and the massive deductible, it has been constant chaos in terms of plans and doctors. Under ACA we stayed with Blue Cross in year one, then had to switch doctors because they dropped Blue Cross, then Blue Cross dropped their ACA PPO, so we switched to Health Net, then Health Net dropped out of the CoveredCA. Every year december is a time of dread as we wait to see if our plan is changing, going up in price, if our doctors are still going to take insurance. We are thankfully all healthy, but it has created a huge stressor where there was none before.
        tptacek 10y ago

nradov 10y ago

I don't think you understand how insurance works. What do you think would have happened to you if you got a serious chronic medical condition and exceeded your lifetime coverage limit on the old (pre ACA) policy?

WillPostForFood 10y ago
I would happily trade a lifetime coverage limit for a reasonable deductible so I can afford healthcare today for myself and my family. Your arrogance is astounding - ACA is a disaster for the vast majority of self insured people, and there were cheaper easier solutions for the small number of people who have chronic issues and lifetime coverage caps.
- tptacek 10y ago
  There are no serious chronic medical conditions in my family and the ACA has been a lifesaver for us, the only reason we were able to start our last company. That's because before the ACA, no individual health insurance plans were available to our family at any cost, due to "do-not-cover" lists (for instance: our daughter, now a teenager, had an unexplained seizure when she was 4 years old). There were millions of families in the same situation. Further: as an employer, I'm aware that what I pay for an ACA silver plan is ballpark comparable to what we paid as employers for family coverage in our small group plan. The ACA plan is more expensive, but nothing resembling twice as expensive. The ACA has not been a disaster for individual entrepreneurs. It has been anything but.
  - sethev 10y ago
    I'll throw another anecdote in there. The small consulting company I worked for up until 2014 switched over to reimbursing us for a portion of what we paid for an ACA plan. Before that we had a (very small) group policy that was incredibly expensive because of health problems that one person had. The ACA saved thousands of dollars in that case (without subsidies) just by having access to a larger risk pool. I've heard people complain about ACA wrt to small business but it's always very vague general terms whereas the specific cases I know about were all positive.
    - WillPostForFood 10y ago
      Look at the data then - ACA plans are going up 22% in just this year. And that doesn't account for the skyrocketing deductibles that effectively make the plans worthless except for catastrophic illness. It may have bailed out a some people with pre-existing conditions, but in totality, it isn't a money saver, it is crushing people that have to buy individual plans, and that's not an anecdote, it is clear from the data on the cost of plans. http://abcnews.go.com/Health/health-care-premiums-rising-obamacare/story?id=43047190 http://abcnews.go.com/Health/health-care-premiums-rising-oba...
      - tptacek 10y ago
        Non-ACA plans went up by a comparable amount in the years just prior to ACA; that was one of the reasons the ACA had the urgency it did at the time. Our Non-HDHP non-HSA-qualifying premiums today are more expensive, but not nearly twice as expensive, as the small group market was in 2009. But the trajectory we were on prior to the ACA was double-digit annual premium increases, so it's tough to say how much of that is ACA. Remember also that these "regulations" we're talking about are primarily things like actuarial value, spending caps, community rating, and guaranteed issue. That's not red tape! Obviously, if you're 25 years old and buying insurance, the ACA is not a particularly great value to you (unless you have a "pre-existing condition", which I'll remind you there's no due process for adjudicating --- an unexplained seizure 10 years ago is a "do-not-cover" pre-ex). But that's part of the point!
        10y ago
  - WillPostForFood 10y ago
    In California, for an individual, the ACA is minimally 3 times as much, for substantially less coverage. Pre-ACA, we paid $400 a month for $2000 deductible PPO plan. We now pay $1200 a month for $12,000 deductible PPO, and had to switch doctors. Go check the numbers for a bronze plan (for 3) for yourself: http://www.coveredca.com/ http://www.coveredca.com/ It is ridiculous is to say a good solution to pre-existing conditions and "do-not-cover-lists" is raising rates and deductibles 3x. It is grossly wasteful, inefficient, expensive solution.
    - tptacek 10y ago
      What year, how many people, and what provider? We insured California employees and I have some idea of how much we paid to do it. For instance: are you comparing individual market PPO premiums from 2009 to 2016 ACA individual market PPOs? That 2009 PPO didn't have guaranteed-issue, meaning that your insurer got to cherry pick you out of the population. Your number is a more accurate comparison if it's from the small group marketplace (where we had to buy insurance from), because small group coverage had guaranteed issue. Also worth mentioning: California premiums had double digit growth in 2009 and 2010, both prior to ACA.
      - WillPostForFood 10y ago
        2 adults, 1 child. In 2012 we bought Blue Cross PPO, $2,000 deductible, $400. As ACA approached it crept up a bit, but was still in the $400 range, deductible might have gone to $2500. First year of ACA it jumped to $800, and has gone up quickly since. Besides the crazy rate hikes, and the massive deductible, it has been constant chaos in terms of plans and doctors. Under ACA we stayed with Blue Cross in year one, then had to switch doctors because they dropped Blue Cross, then Blue Cross dropped their ACA PPO, so we switched to Health Net, then Health Net dropped out of the CoveredCA. Every year december is a time of dread as we wait to see if our plan is changing, going up in price, if our doctors are still going to take insurance. We are thankfully all healthy, but it has created a huge stressor where there was none before.
        tptacek 10y ago