4 ms·

Google mgmt fake releases and then subsequently cancels unlaunched products all the time. They do it to assess market viability and also to stymie competitors.

Google mgmt fake releases and then subsequently cancels unlaunched products all the time. They do it to assess market viability and also to stymie competitors. Ara is notable because of the breadth of the project, but it was really just about protecting the android cash cow's flank. The strategy has worked pretty well. Android was released as open source almost 10 years ago, and you still can't run it on any semi open hardware, like you could with eg. Linux on a PC. To this day, it still boggles my mind that Intel won't sell an open handset.

Apocryphon 10y ago
Maybe Intel and Samsung could finally do something with the Tizen Association?
- ocdtrekkie 10y ago
  I feel like Samsung has been hedging their bets on this for a long time. Before Google struck a patent deal with them that also included some other capitulations, Samsung was heavily working on replacing Google apps with their own products and services. And they recently bought the Viv assistant, from the original creators of Siri. Given Google's terms likely forbid OEMs from setting a default voice assistant other than Google's, it seems like an almost nonsensical purchase unless they want to be ready to leave Google.
  - guyzero 10y ago
    An android phone with Alexa was announced at CES. http://bgr.com/2017/01/05/huawei-mate-9-release-date-alexa-phone/ http://bgr.com/2017/01/05/huawei-mate-9-release-date-alexa-p...
    - ocdtrekkie 10y ago
      I did see that, but I suspect that either it won't be the default voice app on the device, or Google will threaten them into changing it before release. Or maybe they'll do some crazy double hotword thing where you can ask for Google or Alexa? I don't know, but Google's contracts are pretty ironclad if you want Play Store access on your phone. As early as 2014 it was said that Google's confidental contracts with OEMs controlled the default voice assistant setup: https://www.theinformation.com/Google-s-Confidential-Android-Contracts-Show-Rising-Requirements https://www.theinformation.com/Google-s-Confidential-Android... A lot of things are shown off at CES that never actually happen. @flukus's comment below, since I hit my rate limit: Google is already under antitrust investigation for their practices with OEM contracts with Android in multiple jurisdictions internationally. The European Union case is ongoing. Russia has already ruled against Google and instructed them to release OEMs from the illegal provisions... so far Google has refused to comply with Russian law.
      - flukus 10y ago
        > I don't know, but Google's contracts are pretty ironclad if you want Play Store access on your phone. How long until anti trust investigations begin?
  - flukus 10y ago
    Instead of hedging their bets that way (software from hardware vendors almost always sucks) I wish they'd make themselves friendlier to other open source phones OS's, like ubuntu. Some of these OS's seem pretty nice, but the hardware side is always "buy a nexus and put this image on it".
zaphar 10y ago
What is really boggling to the mind are how people think they can know the motivations of people they haven't met or talked with because, "it's obvious" or something.
- grizzles 10y ago
  I've both met and talked with Sergey Brin. It's not like it's an everyday occurrence but it's happened. So, what's your problem? It shouldn't need to be said but this is totally OT, because the parent comment is 100% my opinion.
  - zaphar 10y ago
    The phrasing was dogmatic in tone. It may be your opinion but it was presented as fact.
lnanek2 10y ago
I worked at a startup producing an Android device funded by Intel and Intel wouldn't even give us source code to all the parts of the OS. We had to deal with binary blobs copied into the Android source tree for things like the HAL (hardware abstraction layer) and fastboot. They were things we really needed to customize too because their fastboot referenced buttons our device didn't have and things like that. It was pretty ridiculous. Previous to that I worked on a TI OMAP solution and the source for that was much more open. We had a to extract a custom SGX package for the graphics processing, but otherwise it was much closer to the Android Open Source Project. At least we could customize their x-loader and u-boot as needed. Too bad TI OMAP died.
- djsumdog 10y ago
  So the Intel system they gave you didn't have things like standard UEFI or a VESA/VGA subsystem? Could you install a standard x86/64 Linux distro or Windows?
  - digi_owl 10y ago
    Intel's mobile oriented Atom variants are incredibly stripped down vs their "desktop" line. Back in the day Intel created a linux distro called Moblin to promote these CPUs, because Microsoft balked at supplying a Windows variant for a X86 platform that didn't even have PCI device enumeration.
bsder 10y ago
> To this day, it still boggles my mind that Intel won't sell an open handset. Because you would be asking Intel to trade the enormous margins of x86 for the minuscule margins of ARM. Seriously. Intel fabs already operate at almost 100% capacity. There is zero incentive to play in the ARM space if you are Intel.
- onedognight 10y ago
  Intel's attitude about fabbing ARMs seems to have changed [0] recently. [0] https://www.semiwiki.com/forum/content/6231-intel-foundry-rounds-out-ip-lineup-arm-idf-2016-a.html https://www.semiwiki.com/forum/content/6231-intel-foundry-ro...
tomc1985 10y ago
It seems every SoC minicomputer builder offers (or has available) some kind of an Android flavor, you're saying they aren't doing that independently?
rtpg 10y ago
Is it true that there's no semi-open hardware setup that can work for smartphones? Surely there's a combo of parts that can be thrown together (albeit for a hefty price).
- AstralStorm 10y ago
  Barely, you could try with Maxwell chipsets, but FCC still means trouble. Also Chinese chips from Mediatek brand, but those have some shady security issues.
digi_owl 10y ago
http://www.android-x86.org/ http://www.android-x86.org/
wolfgke 10y ago
> Android was released as open source almost 10 years ago, and you still can't run it on any semi open hardware Android 5.1.1 runs on Minnowboard MAX (I'd assume Minnowboard Turbot, too): > https://01.org/android-ia/downloads/android-5.1.1-lollipop-minnowboard-max-64/32-bit-userspace https://01.org/android-ia/downloads/android-5.1.1-lollipop-m... (see also http://wiki.minnowboard.org/Android http://wiki.minnowboard.org/Android) The Minnowboard (MAX, Turbot) is open hardware: > http://wiki.minnowboard.org/About_Us http://wiki.minnowboard.org/About_Us

Apocryphon 10y ago

Maybe Intel and Samsung could finally do something with the Tizen Association?

ocdtrekkie 10y ago
I feel like Samsung has been hedging their bets on this for a long time. Before Google struck a patent deal with them that also included some other capitulations, Samsung was heavily working on replacing Google apps with their own products and services. And they recently bought the Viv assistant, from the original creators of Siri. Given Google's terms likely forbid OEMs from setting a default voice assistant other than Google's, it seems like an almost nonsensical purchase unless they want to be ready to leave Google.
- guyzero 10y ago
  An android phone with Alexa was announced at CES. http://bgr.com/2017/01/05/huawei-mate-9-release-date-alexa-phone/ http://bgr.com/2017/01/05/huawei-mate-9-release-date-alexa-p...
  - ocdtrekkie 10y ago
    I did see that, but I suspect that either it won't be the default voice app on the device, or Google will threaten them into changing it before release. Or maybe they'll do some crazy double hotword thing where you can ask for Google or Alexa? I don't know, but Google's contracts are pretty ironclad if you want Play Store access on your phone. As early as 2014 it was said that Google's confidental contracts with OEMs controlled the default voice assistant setup: https://www.theinformation.com/Google-s-Confidential-Android-Contracts-Show-Rising-Requirements https://www.theinformation.com/Google-s-Confidential-Android... A lot of things are shown off at CES that never actually happen. @flukus's comment below, since I hit my rate limit: Google is already under antitrust investigation for their practices with OEM contracts with Android in multiple jurisdictions internationally. The European Union case is ongoing. Russia has already ruled against Google and instructed them to release OEMs from the illegal provisions... so far Google has refused to comply with Russian law.
    - flukus 10y ago
      > I don't know, but Google's contracts are pretty ironclad if you want Play Store access on your phone. How long until anti trust investigations begin?
- flukus 10y ago
  Instead of hedging their bets that way (software from hardware vendors almost always sucks) I wish they'd make themselves friendlier to other open source phones OS's, like ubuntu. Some of these OS's seem pretty nice, but the hardware side is always "buy a nexus and put this image on it".

zaphar 10y ago

What is really boggling to the mind are how people think they can know the motivations of people they haven't met or talked with because, "it's obvious" or something.

grizzles 10y ago
I've both met and talked with Sergey Brin. It's not like it's an everyday occurrence but it's happened. So, what's your problem? It shouldn't need to be said but this is totally OT, because the parent comment is 100% my opinion.
- zaphar 10y ago
  The phrasing was dogmatic in tone. It may be your opinion but it was presented as fact.

lnanek2 10y ago

I worked at a startup producing an Android device funded by Intel and Intel wouldn't even give us source code to all the parts of the OS. We had to deal with binary blobs copied into the Android source tree for things like the HAL (hardware abstraction layer) and fastboot. They were things we really needed to customize too because their fastboot referenced buttons our device didn't have and things like that. It was pretty ridiculous. Previous to that I worked on a TI OMAP solution and the source for that was much more open. We had a to extract a custom SGX package for the graphics processing, but otherwise it was much closer to the Android Open Source Project. At least we could customize their x-loader and u-boot as needed. Too bad TI OMAP died.

djsumdog 10y ago
So the Intel system they gave you didn't have things like standard UEFI or a VESA/VGA subsystem? Could you install a standard x86/64 Linux distro or Windows?
- digi_owl 10y ago
  Intel's mobile oriented Atom variants are incredibly stripped down vs their "desktop" line. Back in the day Intel created a linux distro called Moblin to promote these CPUs, because Microsoft balked at supplying a Windows variant for a X86 platform that didn't even have PCI device enumeration.

bsder 10y ago

> To this day, it still boggles my mind that Intel won't sell an open handset. Because you would be asking Intel to trade the enormous margins of x86 for the minuscule margins of ARM. Seriously. Intel fabs already operate at almost 100% capacity. There is zero incentive to play in the ARM space if you are Intel.

onedognight 10y ago
Intel's attitude about fabbing ARMs seems to have changed [0] recently. [0] https://www.semiwiki.com/forum/content/6231-intel-foundry-rounds-out-ip-lineup-arm-idf-2016-a.html https://www.semiwiki.com/forum/content/6231-intel-foundry-ro...

tomc1985 10y ago

It seems every SoC minicomputer builder offers (or has available) some kind of an Android flavor, you're saying they aren't doing that independently?

rtpg 10y ago

Is it true that there's no semi-open hardware setup that can work for smartphones? Surely there's a combo of parts that can be thrown together (albeit for a hefty price).

AstralStorm 10y ago
Barely, you could try with Maxwell chipsets, but FCC still means trouble. Also Chinese chips from Mediatek brand, but those have some shady security issues.

digi_owl 10y ago

http://www.android-x86.org/ http://www.android-x86.org/

wolfgke 10y ago

> Android was released as open source almost 10 years ago, and you still can't run it on any semi open hardware Android 5.1.1 runs on Minnowboard MAX (I'd assume Minnowboard Turbot, too): > https://01.org/android-ia/downloads/android-5.1.1-lollipop-minnowboard-max-64/32-bit-userspace https://01.org/android-ia/downloads/android-5.1.1-lollipop-m... (see also http://wiki.minnowboard.org/Android http://wiki.minnowboard.org/Android) The Minnowboard (MAX, Turbot) is open hardware: > http://wiki.minnowboard.org/About_Us http://wiki.minnowboard.org/About_Us