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> I've only been to Amsterdam once, and I don't pretend to even begin to understand their culture or politics, but legalization here in the US has been great. W

> I've only been to Amsterdam once, and I don't pretend to even begin to understand their culture or politics, but legalization here in the US has been great. We've got a lot of people looking for reasons legalization has destroyed our society, and they are coming up empty handed. Meanwhile, we're making a ton of money on taxes. Is there anyone who knows why they couldn't/shouldn't follow our example? Gonna play devil's advocate: shouldn't we wait a generation or something like 10 years to evaluate the situation ?

bwanab 10y ago
Starting when? Marijuana use has been widespread in the U.S. since the 1960s.
- jerkstate 10y ago
  And legal in California for medical use for 20 years now
CaptSpify 10y ago
I don't disagree that more testing/research/evaluation needs to be done, but AFAIU, things seem to going well enough to push this out for now. EDIT: I'd be interested to hear studies of things not going well since legalization.
djsumdog 10y ago
It's also incredibly different in the US in weird ways. Amsterdam is a place where you can go into any coffee shop and smoke there on premises. If you don't need to buy more, many will let you smoke and use their toilets if you buy a beer, coffee or snacks. Smoking tobacco is a part of European culture and I was surprised to see smoking allowed indoors in many places, both in the west and east (several states in Germany seemed to allow it, or at least not enforce bans; same in Croatia, Montenegro, etc.) In the Pacific North West US, tobacco smoking bans are stricter than anywhere else I've seen in the US. Few bars even have outdoor smoking areas. I have never seen smoking areas outside pot stores (I think it's illegal). This actually makes for a vastly different culture. Also in the Pacific Northwest, very few pot stores will take a foreign drivers license, even for alcohol! (In other parts of the US, people don't normally card adults -- it's really weird), so you're not going to see the same type of marijuana tourism seen in The Netherlands. I'm curious what the culture is like in other places that have approved recreational cannabis. Anyone from Colorado or Maine want to chime in?
- seanmcdirmid 10y ago
  Japan is even weirder, no smoking outside when not in narrowly defined designated areas, but smoking inside is still ok. This was Tokyo. Pacific Northwest will take passports for those things, just not foreign DLs.
  - djsumdog 10y ago
    I thought that was because it can get so insanely packed in the cities that Japanese would often burn each other unintentionally with cigarettes? I can't find it now, but I remember posting posting a warning sign that illustrated someone dropping their cigarette hand to the side and hitting a child in the eye.
  - wapz 10y ago
    Japan has a lot of laws like no smoking outside designated areas but you will see a lot still walking and smoking. It's crazy how a lot of restaurants allow smoking inside all the time (they said most of their business comes from smokers so a ban and they would lose a lot of their customers)
- cr1895 10y ago
  Minor quibble...you won't be buying a beer in a coffeeshop. If they sell weed they do not sell alcohol.
  - nihonde 10y ago
    Definitely incorrect in my experience, which was about two years ago most recently.
    - cr1895 10y ago
      Sure you're not mixing up a former coffeeshop-turned-bar, or one selling 0.0% beer, or one which looks like one place but is actually distinct places (like Bulldog on Leidseplein)? It's a condition of the license, and they're ridigly checked and shut down for non-compliance (selling to minors, keeping too much on premises, hard drugs, etc).
sedachv 10y ago
> Gonna play devil's advocate: shouldn't we wait a generation or something like 10 years to evaluate the situation ? Cannabis is not a "recent situation" - people have been consuming cannabis since prehistoric times. The cannabis prohibition, on the other hand, is. The country-wide cannabis prohibition started in the United States with the founding of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics in 1930. We did wait three generations to evaluate the situation, it is obvious that the cannabis prohibition has been a complete and total failure causing uncounted damage to lives and communities, and needs to be repealed as soon as possible.
- throwaway1892 10y ago
  On the other hand, I don't think the concentration in THC was the same between the cannabis now and then and it's even worse for the processed form.
  - posterboy 10y ago
    so, the public recognition of responsible caution should have increased too
speleding 10y ago
One of the main reasons that the Netherlands cannot legalise production is that we signed an international treaty that bans it. Several attempts to open up that treaty have been stymied by... the US! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Psychotropic_Substances https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Psychotropic_Sub... (Side note: the Netherlands probably needs to be a bit more careful in violating international treaties due to it's size and dependence on trade, I don't think I've heard the "we'll be violating a treaty" argument in the US)

bwanab 10y ago

Starting when? Marijuana use has been widespread in the U.S. since the 1960s.

jerkstate 10y ago
And legal in California for medical use for 20 years now

CaptSpify 10y ago

I don't disagree that more testing/research/evaluation needs to be done, but AFAIU, things seem to going well enough to push this out for now. EDIT: I'd be interested to hear studies of things not going well since legalization.

djsumdog 10y ago

It's also incredibly different in the US in weird ways. Amsterdam is a place where you can go into any coffee shop and smoke there on premises. If you don't need to buy more, many will let you smoke and use their toilets if you buy a beer, coffee or snacks. Smoking tobacco is a part of European culture and I was surprised to see smoking allowed indoors in many places, both in the west and east (several states in Germany seemed to allow it, or at least not enforce bans; same in Croatia, Montenegro, etc.) In the Pacific North West US, tobacco smoking bans are stricter than anywhere else I've seen in the US. Few bars even have outdoor smoking areas. I have never seen smoking areas outside pot stores (I think it's illegal). This actually makes for a vastly different culture. Also in the Pacific Northwest, very few pot stores will take a foreign drivers license, even for alcohol! (In other parts of the US, people don't normally card adults -- it's really weird), so you're not going to see the same type of marijuana tourism seen in The Netherlands. I'm curious what the culture is like in other places that have approved recreational cannabis. Anyone from Colorado or Maine want to chime in?

seanmcdirmid 10y ago
Japan is even weirder, no smoking outside when not in narrowly defined designated areas, but smoking inside is still ok. This was Tokyo. Pacific Northwest will take passports for those things, just not foreign DLs.
- djsumdog 10y ago
  I thought that was because it can get so insanely packed in the cities that Japanese would often burn each other unintentionally with cigarettes? I can't find it now, but I remember posting posting a warning sign that illustrated someone dropping their cigarette hand to the side and hitting a child in the eye.
- wapz 10y ago
  Japan has a lot of laws like no smoking outside designated areas but you will see a lot still walking and smoking. It's crazy how a lot of restaurants allow smoking inside all the time (they said most of their business comes from smokers so a ban and they would lose a lot of their customers)
cr1895 10y ago
Minor quibble...you won't be buying a beer in a coffeeshop. If they sell weed they do not sell alcohol.
- nihonde 10y ago
  Definitely incorrect in my experience, which was about two years ago most recently.
  - cr1895 10y ago
    Sure you're not mixing up a former coffeeshop-turned-bar, or one selling 0.0% beer, or one which looks like one place but is actually distinct places (like Bulldog on Leidseplein)? It's a condition of the license, and they're ridigly checked and shut down for non-compliance (selling to minors, keeping too much on premises, hard drugs, etc).

sedachv 10y ago

> Gonna play devil's advocate: shouldn't we wait a generation or something like 10 years to evaluate the situation ? Cannabis is not a "recent situation" - people have been consuming cannabis since prehistoric times. The cannabis prohibition, on the other hand, is. The country-wide cannabis prohibition started in the United States with the founding of the Federal Bureau of Narcotics in 1930. We did wait three generations to evaluate the situation, it is obvious that the cannabis prohibition has been a complete and total failure causing uncounted damage to lives and communities, and needs to be repealed as soon as possible.

throwaway1892 10y ago
On the other hand, I don't think the concentration in THC was the same between the cannabis now and then and it's even worse for the processed form.
- posterboy 10y ago
  so, the public recognition of responsible caution should have increased too

speleding 10y ago

One of the main reasons that the Netherlands cannot legalise production is that we signed an international treaty that bans it. Several attempts to open up that treaty have been stymied by... the US! https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Psychotropic_Substances https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convention_on_Psychotropic_Sub... (Side note: the Netherlands probably needs to be a bit more careful in violating international treaties due to it's size and dependence on trade, I don't think I've heard the "we'll be violating a treaty" argument in the US)