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Harley Davidson was caught doing the same emissions scam and no one seems to care. Granted there's less vehicles from them compared to the 11 million Volks but

by eumoria 10y ago

Harley Davidson was caught doing the same emissions scam and no one seems to care. Granted there's less vehicles from them compared to the 11 million Volks but still.

sbov 10y ago
Doesn't seem to be the same from what I can tell. AFAIK the Harley Davidson "defeat device" would still emit unacceptable levels of emissions during an emissions test. And that they were intended for track/racing use. This is very different from purposefully hiding your emissions levels from testers. Whether that difference is material when meting out punishment is up to judgement. But calling it "no different" seems pretty wrong.
- eumoria 10y ago
  I gotta do some searching but it was explained to me that at the factory they would run the engines extremely lean... like to the point they had to add additional cooling. Then when the bikes arrived at the dealer they would reflash the ECU and have it normally tuned again. EDIT: Not exactly that... from another user "They admit that the modified bikes bypass emissions requirements, whereas the unmodified VWs didn't meet the requirements and had to cheat to pass inspection."
  - zde 10y ago
    > had to cheat to pass inspection What, VW bribed the comission? FBI should arrest them too..
mcguire 10y ago
??? Somebody created emission requirements for motorcycles?
- deleted 10y ago
  [deleted]
- HNaTTY 10y ago
  Oh yes, and nobody cared about the performance aftermarket (basically anything you do is going to violate emissions standards) until Harley started selling bikes already modified for "racing". I dropped 20 lbs off a 330lb bike (and added about 5hp) by replacing the heavy dual exhaust with a single Ti/carbon pipe, and reprogramming the ECU. I'm sure the manufacturer would have loved to give me a 310lb bike that made more power if they could. (and before you ask, no it's not loud, I hate loud pipes) Incidentally, the exhaust/ECU upgrade was done by the local shop when the bike was purchased new. Basically the same as what H-D was doing. Anyway, what H-D got popped for is arguably less egregious than what VW was doing. They admit that the modified bikes bypass emissions requirements, whereas the unmodified VWs didn't meet the requirements and had to cheat to pass inspection.
jason_stelzer 10y ago
From the factory, the bikes passed the EPA requirements. Harley also got into the business of selling folks new exhaust/air intake and race tuners at the dealership so folks could 'stage 1' their bikes and remap their EFI units. This results in failing emissions (usually). They settled, restricted what they sell post-sale and are tightening down on what voids factory warranties moving forward.
sitkack 10y ago
Funny, because Porsche designed some of the Harley engines (and has for awhile). http://www.porscheengineering.com/peg/en/services/ourreferences/harleydavidson/ http://www.porscheengineering.com/peg/en/services/ourreferen...

by eumoria 10y ago

Harley Davidson was caught doing the same emissions scam and no one seems to care. Granted there's less vehicles from them compared to the 11 million Volks but still.

sbov 10y ago

Doesn't seem to be the same from what I can tell. AFAIK the Harley Davidson "defeat device" would still emit unacceptable levels of emissions during an emissions test. And that they were intended for track/racing use. This is very different from purposefully hiding your emissions levels from testers. Whether that difference is material when meting out punishment is up to judgement. But calling it "no different" seems pretty wrong.

eumoria 10y ago
I gotta do some searching but it was explained to me that at the factory they would run the engines extremely lean... like to the point they had to add additional cooling. Then when the bikes arrived at the dealer they would reflash the ECU and have it normally tuned again. EDIT: Not exactly that... from another user "They admit that the modified bikes bypass emissions requirements, whereas the unmodified VWs didn't meet the requirements and had to cheat to pass inspection."
- zde 10y ago
  > had to cheat to pass inspection What, VW bribed the comission? FBI should arrest them too..

mcguire 10y ago

??? Somebody created emission requirements for motorcycles?

deleted 10y ago
[deleted]
HNaTTY 10y ago
Oh yes, and nobody cared about the performance aftermarket (basically anything you do is going to violate emissions standards) until Harley started selling bikes already modified for "racing". I dropped 20 lbs off a 330lb bike (and added about 5hp) by replacing the heavy dual exhaust with a single Ti/carbon pipe, and reprogramming the ECU. I'm sure the manufacturer would have loved to give me a 310lb bike that made more power if they could. (and before you ask, no it's not loud, I hate loud pipes) Incidentally, the exhaust/ECU upgrade was done by the local shop when the bike was purchased new. Basically the same as what H-D was doing. Anyway, what H-D got popped for is arguably less egregious than what VW was doing. They admit that the modified bikes bypass emissions requirements, whereas the unmodified VWs didn't meet the requirements and had to cheat to pass inspection.

jason_stelzer 10y ago

From the factory, the bikes passed the EPA requirements. Harley also got into the business of selling folks new exhaust/air intake and race tuners at the dealership so folks could 'stage 1' their bikes and remap their EFI units. This results in failing emissions (usually). They settled, restricted what they sell post-sale and are tightening down on what voids factory warranties moving forward.

sitkack 10y ago

Funny, because Porsche designed some of the Harley engines (and has for awhile). http://www.porscheengineering.com/peg/en/services/ourreferences/harleydavidson/ http://www.porscheengineering.com/peg/en/services/ourreferen...