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The issues I had whenever I strayed from Debian weren't technical deficiencies of yum, etc, but rather the choices made by other distros. Installing "vim" and

The issues I had whenever I strayed from Debian weren't technical deficiencies of yum, etc, but rather the choices made by other distros. Installing "vim" and unexpectedly getting some sort of "minimal" version of vim. Packages which symlink or install large binary files or log files into /etc (suddenly grepping /etc becomes problematic). In general, lots of little decisions which make me exclaim the distro equivalent of "Did anyone even play-test this?"

mschuster91 10y ago
> Packages which symlink or install large binary files or log files into /etc wtf? who is actually incompetent enough to do something like this?
- cellularmitosis 10y ago
  This was something like ~8 years ago, but here's an excerpt from my notes when using Redhat: # ls -l /etc/httpd/ conf conf.d logs -> ../../var/log/httpd modules -> ../../usr/lib/httpd/modules run -> ../../var/run Reactions: * Why is 'grep -r /etc' taking so long? * Why am I seeing log entries in the output? * Why am I seeing 'permission denied' on a bunch of socket files? Debian seems to have the most respect for the FHS. http://www.pathname.com/fhs/ http://www.pathname.com/fhs/
  - cellularmitosis 10y ago
    A few more, from my notes: These were the default permissions of the apache log dir: # ls -ld /var/log/httpd/ drwx------ 2 root root 4096 Jan 18 12:09 /var/log/httpd/ I guess their expectation is that only root should ever need to read a log file? Contrast this with Debian, which gives read access to admins: $ ls -ld /var/log/apache2 drwxr-x--- 2 root adm 4096 Jan 16 06:25 /var/log/apache2 Redhat also decided to stick wsgi sockets into the log dir. If you try to run a wsgi process as anyone other than root, you get a permissions error: (13)Permission denied: mod_wsgi (pid=31431): Unable to connect to WSGI daemon process 'bob' on '/etc/httpd/logs/wsgi.1965.3.1.sock' after multiple attempts. To fix this problem, you have to tell wsgi to stick its socket files somewhere more reasonable, like /var/run (which is what Debian does by default). When you look up the modwsgi "Common Problems" page, the very first entry describes exactly this issue... https://code.google.com/archive/p/modwsgi/wikis/ConfigurationIssues.wiki https://code.google.com/archive/p/modwsgi/wikis/Configuratio... 'cfdisk' was removed from the distro because it was "a pile of junk". Really? That's funny -- I've used it to create dozens of Debian partitions and never had a problem. https://partner-bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=53061 https://partner-bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=53061
    - josteink 10y ago
      > These were the default permissions of the apache log dir Since systemd came along, you're supposed to use journalctl though. That applies to Debian and Ubuntu too.
  - lucaspiller 10y ago
    Side note: What do you use to keep detailed notes, to enable you to quickly refer back to stuff 8 years later?
marcosdumay 10y ago
My problems on rpm systems are always about some packager using different versions of dependencies than what ships with my OS. Nobody has the QA force Debian has.

mschuster91 10y ago

> Packages which symlink or install large binary files or log files into /etc wtf? who is actually incompetent enough to do something like this?

cellularmitosis 10y ago
This was something like ~8 years ago, but here's an excerpt from my notes when using Redhat: # ls -l /etc/httpd/ conf conf.d logs -> ../../var/log/httpd modules -> ../../usr/lib/httpd/modules run -> ../../var/run Reactions: * Why is 'grep -r /etc' taking so long? * Why am I seeing log entries in the output? * Why am I seeing 'permission denied' on a bunch of socket files? Debian seems to have the most respect for the FHS. http://www.pathname.com/fhs/ http://www.pathname.com/fhs/
- cellularmitosis 10y ago
  A few more, from my notes: These were the default permissions of the apache log dir: # ls -ld /var/log/httpd/ drwx------ 2 root root 4096 Jan 18 12:09 /var/log/httpd/ I guess their expectation is that only root should ever need to read a log file? Contrast this with Debian, which gives read access to admins: $ ls -ld /var/log/apache2 drwxr-x--- 2 root adm 4096 Jan 16 06:25 /var/log/apache2 Redhat also decided to stick wsgi sockets into the log dir. If you try to run a wsgi process as anyone other than root, you get a permissions error: (13)Permission denied: mod_wsgi (pid=31431): Unable to connect to WSGI daemon process 'bob' on '/etc/httpd/logs/wsgi.1965.3.1.sock' after multiple attempts. To fix this problem, you have to tell wsgi to stick its socket files somewhere more reasonable, like /var/run (which is what Debian does by default). When you look up the modwsgi "Common Problems" page, the very first entry describes exactly this issue... https://code.google.com/archive/p/modwsgi/wikis/ConfigurationIssues.wiki https://code.google.com/archive/p/modwsgi/wikis/Configuratio... 'cfdisk' was removed from the distro because it was "a pile of junk". Really? That's funny -- I've used it to create dozens of Debian partitions and never had a problem. https://partner-bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=53061 https://partner-bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=53061
  - josteink 10y ago
    > These were the default permissions of the apache log dir Since systemd came along, you're supposed to use journalctl though. That applies to Debian and Ubuntu too.
- lucaspiller 10y ago
  Side note: What do you use to keep detailed notes, to enable you to quickly refer back to stuff 8 years later?

marcosdumay 10y ago

My problems on rpm systems are always about some packager using different versions of dependencies than what ships with my OS. Nobody has the QA force Debian has.