7 ms·

>coverage of ai amazingly not stupid as opposed to most other sci-fi shows If they were capable of that level of AI they would have reached exponential growth

>coverage of ai amazingly not stupid as opposed to most other sci-fi shows If they were capable of that level of AI they would have reached exponential growth shortly - to suggest someone would use it to build theme parks is downright retarded. Like you said - AI is a plot device in that show, just another form of "magic" that lets them ramble on about consciousness while pretending to be sciency.

TeMPOraL 10y ago
I think the best coverage of AI in visual fiction so far is Person of Interest. Interestingly, the show was made by the same team writing Westworld. PoI starts slowly and pretends to be a cop procedural with a little bit of sci-fi sprinkled on top, but quickly evolves into treatise on surveillance state and artificial intelligence. Fun fact: PoI basically predicted Snowden and his revelations - the episode with NSA whistleblower aired before Snowden did his thing.
- ghaff 10y ago
  I got a bit bored with PoI at first but I've heard enough good things that I really should dive back into it.
  - dagw 10y ago
    PoI really suffered from being on network television with their really long seasons. Had it been done with only 10 episodes a season and all the filler removed it would have been much stronger.
  - psyc 10y ago
    Since it's a TV series, there are a lot of generic filler episodes that are just like Law & Order whodunnits + AI. But the high points, which eventually take center stage in latter seasons, are indeed the best depiction of AI and the issues surrounding it that I've ever seen on a screen.
    - lobster_johnson 10y ago
      Someone should compile (if possible) a list of essential episodes that takes out the fillers. The equivalent X-Files list is great. I tried PoI myself and couldn't get through it, because it was just so dull -- run-of-the-mill low budget procedural with that glossy network-TV feeling of Hollywood reality to it (e.g., everyone in the show looks like a model, except eggheads or villains, where they're allowed to cast someone unattractive). Several people have told me it gets much better, but I just don't want to have to wade through all the mediocre episodes.
      - ghaff 10y ago
        It's been done: http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/04/22/person-of-interest-the-episodes-that-will-catch-you-up http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/04/22/person-of-interest-th... No idea how good the list is or how well it works.
EpicEng 10y ago
>while pretending to be sciency. It's almost as though it's science fiction...
- rubber_duck 10y ago
  Well I guess there are different kinds of science fiction - sci-fi that's obviously fiction and doesn't try to pretend to be realistic - Alien, Star Wars, etc. - I'm fine with this - it's just the author taking you in to his own fantasy world - just like Game of Thrones doesn't try to describe how dragons get to be aerodynamic or explain the white walkers superior strength by using dumbed down science. Then there's Sci-Fi that's actually beleivable - like The Martian - I'm OK with this as well. But then there's this pseudo-sciency trying to look serious while actually being BS part like Interstellar, The Arrival, etc. The main point of science there is not to be a fictional setting but trying to give a feeling of realism trough sci/techbabble. I don't even mind cheap sci-fi drama movies, for example I liked The Fountain, but when they try to pretend they are realistic that's what breaks the immersion for me completely because I start to critically evaluate the plot and it just falls apart.
  - platz 10y ago
    > trying to look serious while actually being BS I think you missed the point entirely of the films you mentioned
    - rubber_duck 10y ago
      That's the point of SF in those movies. Remove SF elements and you're left with cheap dramas and cheesy themes (love beats everything yaay) - so they wrapped them in to SF elements and tried to make them look serious and deep with pseudoscience - which just annoys me and triggers me when people buy in to it :)
      - platz 10y ago
        :)
  - deleted 10y ago
sp332 10y ago
Why would a robot inherently want to make a better robot, or change itself?
- api 10y ago
  I love "stupid" questions like this. We can say that the vast majority of living beings on Earth do not seem to seek any form of radical self improvement beyond ordinary developmental learning and mastery of survival skills. There is no intrinsic reason that there must be an impulse to exceed oneself. Why would AI be different?
  - JackFr 10y ago
    Why indeed would an AIs motivations even be comprehensible to us.
    - manmal 10y ago
      Because we have neural networks in our heads. Sure, very differently structured, semantically and physically.
    - enraged_camel 10y ago
      Because an AI would be created by humans, and would therefore be modeled after human intelligence. An alien AI, on the other hand, would most likely be incomprehensible to us, at least until we understood the aliens that created it.
  - Almaviva 10y ago
    Most of the smartest humans spend a significant part of their lives in learning and mastery of skills that go beyond survival.
  - jack_pp 10y ago
    And not all hosts in the show are conscious. I would say that is a great metaphor for our current society, where you could say that the vast majority of humans aren't really conscious. They might eat and have sex and fight to survive, just like a host does. But they don't really comprehend what it means to be alive. AI's, like humans, need a purpose. The best way of achieving that purpose is by self improvement so any AI which does not self improve to some extent will be replaced by another that will. Just like humans who don't care to self improve eventually don't reproduce enough to spread their genes.
simias 10y ago
I did find it strange at first too, certainly there would be better use for such a level of AI than building Disneyland 2.0. But it's actually explained over the course of the season. The character played by Hopkins tried his hardest to keep the technology within the park. That seems pretty odd at first but his reasons to do so are stated explicitly in the final episode. Many people try to get the technology out but they all seem to have failed so far.
Apocryphon 10y ago
> to suggest someone would use it to build theme parks is downright retarded What's the current primary use for machine learning? Determining consumer behavior? Guessing at which ads to display?

TeMPOraL 10y ago

I think the best coverage of AI in visual fiction so far is Person of Interest. Interestingly, the show was made by the same team writing Westworld. PoI starts slowly and pretends to be a cop procedural with a little bit of sci-fi sprinkled on top, but quickly evolves into treatise on surveillance state and artificial intelligence. Fun fact: PoI basically predicted Snowden and his revelations - the episode with NSA whistleblower aired before Snowden did his thing.

ghaff 10y ago
I got a bit bored with PoI at first but I've heard enough good things that I really should dive back into it.
- dagw 10y ago
  PoI really suffered from being on network television with their really long seasons. Had it been done with only 10 episodes a season and all the filler removed it would have been much stronger.
- psyc 10y ago
  Since it's a TV series, there are a lot of generic filler episodes that are just like Law & Order whodunnits + AI. But the high points, which eventually take center stage in latter seasons, are indeed the best depiction of AI and the issues surrounding it that I've ever seen on a screen.
  - lobster_johnson 10y ago
    Someone should compile (if possible) a list of essential episodes that takes out the fillers. The equivalent X-Files list is great. I tried PoI myself and couldn't get through it, because it was just so dull -- run-of-the-mill low budget procedural with that glossy network-TV feeling of Hollywood reality to it (e.g., everyone in the show looks like a model, except eggheads or villains, where they're allowed to cast someone unattractive). Several people have told me it gets much better, but I just don't want to have to wade through all the mediocre episodes.
    - ghaff 10y ago
      It's been done: http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/04/22/person-of-interest-the-episodes-that-will-catch-you-up http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/04/22/person-of-interest-th... No idea how good the list is or how well it works.

EpicEng 10y ago

>while pretending to be sciency. It's almost as though it's science fiction...

rubber_duck 10y ago
Well I guess there are different kinds of science fiction - sci-fi that's obviously fiction and doesn't try to pretend to be realistic - Alien, Star Wars, etc. - I'm fine with this - it's just the author taking you in to his own fantasy world - just like Game of Thrones doesn't try to describe how dragons get to be aerodynamic or explain the white walkers superior strength by using dumbed down science. Then there's Sci-Fi that's actually beleivable - like The Martian - I'm OK with this as well. But then there's this pseudo-sciency trying to look serious while actually being BS part like Interstellar, The Arrival, etc. The main point of science there is not to be a fictional setting but trying to give a feeling of realism trough sci/techbabble. I don't even mind cheap sci-fi drama movies, for example I liked The Fountain, but when they try to pretend they are realistic that's what breaks the immersion for me completely because I start to critically evaluate the plot and it just falls apart.
- platz 10y ago
  > trying to look serious while actually being BS I think you missed the point entirely of the films you mentioned
  - rubber_duck 10y ago
    That's the point of SF in those movies. Remove SF elements and you're left with cheap dramas and cheesy themes (love beats everything yaay) - so they wrapped them in to SF elements and tried to make them look serious and deep with pseudoscience - which just annoys me and triggers me when people buy in to it :)
    - platz 10y ago
      :)
- deleted 10y ago

sp332 10y ago

Why would a robot inherently want to make a better robot, or change itself?

api 10y ago
I love "stupid" questions like this. We can say that the vast majority of living beings on Earth do not seem to seek any form of radical self improvement beyond ordinary developmental learning and mastery of survival skills. There is no intrinsic reason that there must be an impulse to exceed oneself. Why would AI be different?
- JackFr 10y ago
  Why indeed would an AIs motivations even be comprehensible to us.
  - manmal 10y ago
    Because we have neural networks in our heads. Sure, very differently structured, semantically and physically.
  - enraged_camel 10y ago
    Because an AI would be created by humans, and would therefore be modeled after human intelligence. An alien AI, on the other hand, would most likely be incomprehensible to us, at least until we understood the aliens that created it.
- Almaviva 10y ago
  Most of the smartest humans spend a significant part of their lives in learning and mastery of skills that go beyond survival.
- jack_pp 10y ago
  And not all hosts in the show are conscious. I would say that is a great metaphor for our current society, where you could say that the vast majority of humans aren't really conscious. They might eat and have sex and fight to survive, just like a host does. But they don't really comprehend what it means to be alive. AI's, like humans, need a purpose. The best way of achieving that purpose is by self improvement so any AI which does not self improve to some extent will be replaced by another that will. Just like humans who don't care to self improve eventually don't reproduce enough to spread their genes.

simias 10y ago

I did find it strange at first too, certainly there would be better use for such a level of AI than building Disneyland 2.0. But it's actually explained over the course of the season. The character played by Hopkins tried his hardest to keep the technology within the park. That seems pretty odd at first but his reasons to do so are stated explicitly in the final episode. Many people try to get the technology out but they all seem to have failed so far.

Apocryphon 10y ago

> to suggest someone would use it to build theme parks is downright retarded What's the current primary use for machine learning? Determining consumer behavior? Guessing at which ads to display?